Author Topic: Watching the hopes and dreams of PRIDE fanboys get crushed... (Read 5028 times)

*ChuteBoxe* · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2011, 06:22:40 PM »

Quote from: MindSpin on March 20, 2011, 03:12:40 PM

Wow, tis whole thing seems to be really getting to you...lol. I like Bas, but the guys is very annoying to listen to. Rogan blows him away.

Dude you are a whiny 14 yr old in mods clothing. I'd say 90% of the threads you start are anti fedor, Pride is dead, type stuff with a bunch of fanboy filler in them, which consists mostly of you and your other accounts hollow posts. It's getting quite annoying, you can probably condense all of the shit you post into 2 threads since it all boils down to the same 2 topics.

kevcat · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2011, 04:26:23 PM »

The only person who mentions Pride is Mindspin.Nobody even cares about wots 'better'.1 is American and the other isnt so how can they be compared? They were both enjoyable and had/have great fights.Its pointless comparing when 1 has a ring and the other an octagon...

BILL ANVIL · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2011, 04:31:06 PM »

How AREN'T you a fan of Pride? It was the greatest MMA show on earth. Even the Fertitta brothers will tell you that..

Benny B · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2011, 07:56:54 PM »

Quote from: BILL ANVIL on March 21, 2011, 04:31:06 PM

How AREN'T you a fan of Pride? It was the greatest MMA show on earth. Even the Ferretti brothers will tell you that..

"Ferretti brothers?" $:-\$

PRIDE is ancient history, kids. Move along.

BILL ANVIL · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2011, 10:08:24 PM »

woops

GraniteCityDon · « **Reply #30 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:32:35 AM »

Its not that im a specific "fanboy" as you label it, but i thought that Pride did have better fights and some incredible fighters.

LHW title since Pride acquisition:

Rampage - Griffin - Evans - Machida - Shogun - Jones

3 from each org, none having a successful defense strangely enough (save Rampage's unification bout because Shogun won the first Machida fight also). Its a fair split for the best of the divisions. Prides glory days were 2004 - 2006 IMO when their divisions were far superior to the UFC's. The merge only strengthened Zuffa's grip on MMA and we are now seeing the benefit of things we used to dream about. Its not like the guys in Pride were unbeatable, but your seeming worship of all things UFC has blinded you to the fact that at one point in time UFC simply could not compete for talent.

Tim Sylvia / Andrei Arlovski vs a prime Fedor = Fedor hands down.

Chuck / Randy / Tito vs Wandy / Shogun = Pride win again

The main divisions were stacked with world class fighters putting on world class fights whilst Dana had no option but to give Sean Gannon a PPV match based on a boxing match with Kimbo.

Pride was corrupt, this much is true, and it eventually cost the company everything. UFC didnt make any headway until the reality show kicked off and then began to amass the $$ required to make itself the #1 org to fight for. The fact that Pride was so strong has assisted in solidifying UFC's grip on the sport, the contrasts between the wrestling industry and this are evident for all to see. I have always loved UFC, it started everything and i remember getting the video of UFC 1 when it was first released and having discussion about it in school with a group of friends who also had an interest. I remember buying a damn M&F magazine because Frank Mir was on the cover and had an article in which he was training with Chuck.

I have been a legit fan of MMA since its inception and even played with its ideas before it went mainstream, so i have an unbiased view on it as a whole. All i can say is that the direction that the sport is being taken is everything i had hoped for but there is still quite a way to go before it is "there".

WeightPSHR · « **Reply #31 on:** March 22, 2011, 06:50:13 AM »

Quote from: BILL ANVIL on March 21, 2011, 04:31:06 PM

How AREN'T you a fan of Pride? It was the greatest MMA show on earth. Even the Fertitta brothers will tell you that..

Nobody around here is saying that PRIDE was not fun to watch.

The problem is people around here want to compare PRIDE and it's fighters to the current state of MMA/UFC.

So much has changed since then in MMA/UFC it's almost a totally different sport.

Taking nothing away from the champs of 3-5 yerars ago, but there is a whole new breed of UFC champions these days.

This is typical in a relatively new sport ans you will see this progression.

MindSpin · « **Reply #32 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:44:21 AM »

Quote from: GraniteCityDon on March 22, 2011, 04:32:35 AM

Its not that im a specific "fanboy" as you label it, but i thought that Pride did have better fights and some incredible fighters.

LHW title since Pride acquisition:

Rampage - Griffin - Evans - Machida - Shogun - Jones

3 from each org, none having a successful defense strangely enough (save Rampage's unification bout because Shogun won the first Machida fight also). Its a fair split for the best of the divisions. Prides glory days were 2004 - 2006 IMO when their divisions were far superior to the UFC's. The merge only strengthened Zuffa's grip on MMA and we are now seeing the benefit of things we used to dream about. Its not like the guys in Pride were unbeatable, but your seeming worship of all things UFC has blinded you to the fact that at one point in time UFC simply could not compete for talent.

Tim Sylvia / Andrei Arlovski vs a prime Fedor = Fedor hands down.

Chuck / Randy / Tito vs Wandy / Shogun = Pride win again

The main divisions were stacked with world class fighters putting on world class fights whilst Dana had no option but to give Sean Gannon a PPV match based on a boxing match with Kimbo.

Pride was corrupt, this much is true, and it eventually cost the company everything. UFC didnt make any headway until the reality show kicked off and then began to amass the $$ required to make itself the #1 org to fight for. The fact that Pride was so strong has assisted in solidifying UFC's grip on the sport, the contrasts between the wrestling industry and this are evident for all to see. I have always loved UFC, it started everything and i remember getting the video of UFC 1 when it was first released and having discussion about it in school with a group of friends who also had an interest. I remember buying a damn M&F magazine because Frank Mir was on the cover and had an article in which he was training with Chuck.

I have been a legit fan of MMA since its inception and even played with its ideas before it went mainstream, so i have an unbiased view on it as a whole. All i can say is that the direction that the sport is being taken is everything i had hoped for but there is still quite a way to go before it is "there".

Bro, that is an awesome post. QFT! The bickering you see on here is a function of Pride fan boys who think they are better than TUF newbies. Any time something good happens with the UFC, they chime in with how the UFC sucks, Dana White ruined the sport and Pride was better.
Then, of course, anyone who was not an original Pride fan gets defensive and the bickering begins.

You laid it out perfectly in you post. Thank you.

kevcat · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2011, 08:05:46 AM »

Quote from: MindSpin on March 22, 2011, 07:44:21 AM

Bro, that is an awesome post. QFT! The bickering you see on here is a function of Pride fan boys who think they are better than TUF newbies. Any time something good happens with the UFC, they chime in with how the UFC sucks, Dana White ruined the sport and Pride was better.
Then, of course, anyone who was not an original Pride fan gets defensive and the bickering begins.

You laid it out perfectly in you post. Thank you.

Who says all this that u talk about? I dont see any recent threads started by anybody saying UFC sucks, so what are you talking about?

kevcat · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2011, 08:06:37 AM »

Quote from: WeightPSHR on March 22, 2011, 06:50:13 AM

Nobody around here is saying that PRIDE was not fun to watch.

The problem is people around here want to compare PRIDE and it's fighters to the current state of MMA/UFC.

So much has changed since then in MMA/UFC it's almost a totally different sport.

Taking nothing away from the champs of 3-5 yerars ago, but there is a whole new breed of UFC champions these days.

This is typical in a relatively new sport ans you will see this progression.

You see progression in EVERY sport dumbass, not just new sports.Why do Olympic times keep getting beaten etc etc

BILL ANVIL · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2011, 08:56:11 AM »

Weren't they using that 'new breed' saying to describe Todd Duffee just before Overeem punched him out in the first round?

And 3 current champs have the size/reach advantage in all of their fights...guess who they are..

WeightPSHR · « **Reply #36 on:** March 22, 2011, 09:42:22 AM »

Quote from: kevcat on March 22, 2011, 08:06:37 AM

You see progression in EVERY sport dumbass, not just new sports.Why do Olympic times keep getting beaten etc etc

I'm referring to sports with RAPID drastic changes like the UFC/MMA.

Pretty much any X-Games sport would classify.

Olympics progress primarily due to better drugs. We all know that, dumbass.

kevcat · « **Reply #37 on:** March 22, 2011, 11:12:49 AM »

Quote from: WeightPSHR on March 22, 2011, 09:42:22 AM

I'm referring to sports with RAPID drastic changes like the UFC/MMA.

Pretty much any X-Games sport would classify.

Olympics progress primarily due to better drugs. We all know that, dumbass.

Theres rapid/drastic changes because theres a new champion in a division? Or what other explanation do you have for that statement?
Better drugs? LOL seriously you think thats the only reason?

Benny B · « **Reply #38 on:** March 22, 2011, 11:51:45 AM »

Quote from: kevcat on March 22, 2011, 11:12:49 AM

Theres rapid/drastic changes because theres a new champion in a division? Or what other explanation do you have for that statement?
Better drugs? LOL seriously you think thats the only reason?

The point that RAPID progression tends to occur in new sports seems to make sense to me. You named the Olympics, which is all well and good. But you don't see major progression in sports like basketball, baseball, or football in the course of 5-7 years like you mma.

The 2000 Yankees could easily win the World Series in 2011, the 90's Cowboys would still be a beast in the NFL, and a prime MJ and the Bulls would still be a tough out in the playoffs in 2011. Go back 10-15 years in the UFC...you think they could hang with today's fighters? Look what Matt Hughes did to Royce Gracie. That fight made me want to cry, seeing a legend get beat down so badly.

WeightPSHR · « **Reply #39 on:** March 22, 2011, 11:53:32 AM »

Quote from: kevcat on March 22, 2011, 11:12:49 AM

Theres rapid/drastic changes because theres a new champion in a division? Or what other explanation do you have for that statement?
Better drugs? LOL seriously you think thats the only reason?

This has nothing really to do with Jones in of itself, he's just one example. Look at the UFC champs of today and their style of fighting and game plans. That should answer your question.

If not, maybe MMA is not for you.

And in the Olympics, yes, I am 100% serious that better drugs and drug regimens have the biggest difference in performance. These drugs allow everything to improve. Drugs are a necessity for an elite athlete.

kevcat · « **Reply #40 on:** March 22, 2011, 01:52:54 PM »

Quote from: Benny Blanco on March 22, 2011, 11:51:45 AM

The point that RAPID progression tends to occur in new sports seems to make sense to me. You named the Olympics, which is all well and good. But you don't see major progression in sports like basketball, baseball, or football in the course of 5-7 years like you mma.

The 2000 Yankees could easily win the World Series in 2011, the 90's Cowboys would still be a beast in the NFL, and a prime MJ and the Bulls would still be a tough out in the playoffs in 2011. Go back 10-15 years in the UFC...you think they could hang with today's fighters? Look what Matt Hughes did to Royce Gracie. That fight made me want to cry, seeing a legend get beat down so badly.

Of course they could hang with todays fighters.It all depends what age you want to put them in.If youre talking about fighters in their prime then id still say a Ken Shamrock is as good as anyone in his weight category ever was, even now.And when Gracie was beaten by Hughes im sure there was a difference in wether Gracie was at his prime compared to Hughes who was a beast at that point.So really that makes no sense.Theres NO WAY of comparing a young fighter beating a guy past his best and saying 'oh modern fighters are simply better'

Benny B · « **Reply #41 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:06:23 PM »

Quote from: kevcat on March 22, 2011, 01:52:54 PM

Of course they could hang with todays fighters.It all depends what age you want to put them in.If youre talking about fighters in their prime then id still say a Ken Shamrock is as good as anyone in his weight category ever was, even now.And when Gracie was beaten by Hughes im sure there was a difference in wether Gracie was at his prime compared to Hughes who was a beast at that point.So really that makes no sense.Theres NO WAY of comparing a young fighter beating a guy past his best and saying 'oh modern fighters are simply better'

Disagree completely, but you seem like a bit of a know-it-all, so believe what you want.

Gracie lost to Hughes because his skill set and level of athleticism was not comparable to that of Hughes, not due to age. The fact is, Matt was totally familiar with Brazilian jiu jitsu, so Royce did not have an advantage like he did in the early days of the UFC. Royce was not a great athlete even in his prime, he just knew a style of grappling that was totally unfamiliar to his opponents.

WeightPSHR · « **Reply #42 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:14:41 PM »

Quote from: kevcat on March 22, 2011, 01:52:54 PM

Of course they could hang with todays fighters.It all depends what age you want to put them in.If youre talking about fighters in their prime then id still say a Ken Shamrock is as good as anyone in his weight category ever was, even now.And when Gracie was beaten by Hughes im sure there was a difference in wether Gracie was at his prime compared to Hughes who was a beast at that point.So really that makes no sense.Theres NO WAY of comparing a young fighter beating a guy past his best and saying 'oh modern fighters are simply better'

So Rua is past his best all of the sudden?

To say the only reason Hughes won Gracie was because Gracie was past his prime is ignorant.

BILL ANVIL · « **Reply #43 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:42:40 PM »

Quote from: WeightPSHR on March 22, 2011, 02:14:41 PM

So Rua is past his best all of the sudden?

To say the only reason Hughes won Gracie was because Gracie was past his prime is ignorant.

I believe you are both wrong in assuming that its the skill difference that makes the difference. I think its evolution and the age of the fighter that makes the difference in most cases. Even though Gracie was way past his prime and over 40 years old, Matt still would have pounded his head in even if Royce was at his best. However, no holds barred is a completely different ball game.

WeightPSHR · « **Reply #44 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:57:53 PM »

Quote from: BILL ANVIL on March 22, 2011, 02:42:40 PM

I believe you are both wrong in assuming that its the skill difference that makes the difference. I think its evolution and the age of the fighter that makes the difference in most cases. Even though Gracie was way past his prime and over 40 years old, Matt still would have pounded his head in even if Royce was at his best. However, no holds barred is a completely different ball game.

Trying to use your logic...

Is Rua past his prime?

What about BJ...he just had an amazing performance against one of the top WW's in the world, but he's past his prime, right?

Anderson Silva has been fighting a long time...shouldn't he be past his prime by now?

MindSpin · « **Reply #45 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:43:38 PM »

Quote from: Benny Blanco on March 22, 2011, 02:06:23 PM

Disagree completely, but you seem like a bit of a know-it-all, so believe what you want.

Gracie lost to Hughes because his skill set and level of athleticism was not comparable to that of Hughes, not due to age. The fact is, Matt was totally familiar with Brazilian jiu jitsu, so Royce did not have an advantage like he did in the early days of the UFC. Royce was not a great athlete even in his prime, he just knew a style of grappling that was totally unfamiliar to his opponents.

QFT

kevcat · « **Reply #46 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:56:33 AM »

Quote from: Benny Blanco on March 22, 2011, 02:06:23 PM

Disagree completely, but you seem like a bit of a know-it-all, so believe what you want.

Gracie lost to Hughes because his skill set and level of athleticism was not comparable to that of Hughes, not due to age. The fact is, Matt was totally familiar with Brazilian jiu jitsu, so Royce did not have an advantage like he did in the early days of the UFC. Royce was not a great athlete even in his prime, he just knew a style of grappling that was totally unfamiliar to his opponents.

I actually agree with this.In my actual reply i was just using Shamrock as an example and didnt really think through what i was saying.Id agree that Hughes would beat Gracie at any point, so that wasnt the best example.Gracie was hardly an elite all round mixed martial artist though.I agree with Bill Anvil.Anybody could beat anybody in an octagon, cos styles make it more than anything.Unless someone is elite in striking, grappling, jui jitsu, has a granite chin, and massive gas tank, ANYBODY could beat him

BILL ANVIL · « **Reply #47 on:** March 23, 2011, 02:02:39 PM »

Quote from: WeightPSHR on March 22, 2011, 02:57:53 PM

Trying to use your logic...

Is Rua past his prime?

What about BJ...he just had an amazing performance against one of the top WW's in the world, but he's past his prime, right?

Anderson Silva has been fighting a long time...shouldn't he be past his prime by now?

I didnt say it was the case for EVERY fight, but it is for alot of them. BJ doesn't seem like the same fighter he once was obviously because of the evolution, but he just doesnt seem as aggressive as he used to be. He more worried about getting hit and he doesnt seem like hes got the will to win anymore.