Slin ?????

[OTHstrong]

good advice you gave above OTH... BUT imo your carb timing principles are off.
yeah, insulin DOES shuttle nutrients (especially carbs and amino acids), thats all true... BUT the effects are delayed and much more long lasting than a single meal or the active time of the insulin itself.

you also do not carb load before an insulin shot, and especially not 2 hours before. this simply does not work with the active time of insulin.
insulin starts working around 20mins after you shoot it and then increases nutrient shuttling for 5-6 hours straight. yes, RAPID insulin, which is essentially out of your system within 2.5 hours. how so? because insulin effects glucose transport proteins (glut4) in the muscle cells, which is a delayed effect. these glucose transporters are actually whats causing your body to dump carbs from your bloodstream into your muscle cells.

regarding the carb timing:
a solid meal elevates your blood sugar significantly for ONE SINGLE HOUR, after that blood sugar starts dropping down again.
 within 90mins your blood sugar is essentially back to normal unless youre a diabetic (and this is for SOLID MIXED LOW GLYCEMIC meals. a liquid with whey+glucose acts a shitton faster). glucose itself elevates blood sugar for around half an hour and then drops way down.

you cant load up on carbs 2 hours before a slin shot and hope for any effect, that doesnt do ANYTHING.
you gotta carb load DURING the insulin takes maximum effect. this is after the injection and lasts for HOURS (yes, with rapid insulin).

ive explained this earlier. read up everything you can on glucose infusion rate if you want to grasp the concept how insulin actually works.

what in the world are you talking about?.... carb loading prior elevates your blood sugar levels, slin drops it into the muscle, simple mathematics, whatever you are reading is horse shit.  Once carbs are in the blood stream, your body can give 2 shits when they where eaten, there in the blood stream already, the slin will deliver, not rocket science.

[Jizmo]

what in the world are you talking about?.... carb loading prior elevates your blood sugar levels, slin drops it into the muscle, simple mathematics, whatever you are reading is horse shit.  Once carbs are in the blood stream, your body can give 2 shits when they where eaten, there in the blood stream already, the slin will deliver, not rocket science.

lol no need to get offensive here.
do you really think if you eat carbs your blood sugar will stay elevated all day until you inject your insulin? lol. what do you think endogenous insulin is for?
or are you a type 1 diabetic without any endogenous insulin production?

if you carb load 2 hours before your insulin shot you WILL have ZERO carbs in your blood at the time you inject your insulin, because all the blood glucose, literally ALL blood glucose is cleared from your blood within 2 hours by your endogenous insulin unless youre a diabetic and youre not having an endogenous production of insulin anymore.

a single meal doesnt elevate blood sugar levels significantly for more than a single hour.
you need to cover the time the insulin is ACTIVE with carbs and amino acids. that is 15mins AFTER the injection and onwards (for hours).

fact is, your carb timing is plain wrong.
look up the blood glucose response of your body to mixed meals / glucose only infusion etc (whatever carb source you use, but in the end it doesnt matter because no carb source elevates blood sugar for longer than 60-90mins significantly)
then look up the glucose infusion rate of insulin. there you have your answer
im not spoon feeding this to anyone. ill just tell you that the EARLIEST you should consume carbs for the insulin is WITH the shot and then throughout the following hours. thats it.

yeah, not rocket science but science. you cant just eat some carbs at some point, then inject some insulin hours later and expect magic to happen lol

[OTHstrong]

lol no need to get offensive here.
do you really think if you eat carbs your blood sugar will stay elevated all day until you inject your insulin? lol. what do you think endogenous insulin is for?
or are you a type 1 diabetic without any endogenous insulin production?

if you carb load 2 hours before your insulin shot you WILL have ZERO carbs in your blood at the time you inject your insulin, because all the blood glucose, literally ALL blood glucose is cleared from your blood within 2 hours by your endogenous insulin unless youre a diabetic and youre not having an endogenous production of insulin anymore.

a single meal doesnt elevate blood sugar levels significantly for more than a single hour.
you need to cover the time the insulin is ACTIVE with carbs and amino acids. that is 15mins AFTER the injection and onwards (for hours).

fact is, your carb timing is plain wrong.
look up the blood glucose response of your body to mixed meals / glucose only infusion etc (whatever carb source you use, but in the end it doesnt matter because no carb source elevates blood sugar for longer than 60-90mins significantly)
then look up the glucose infusion rate of insulin. there you have your answer
im not spoon feeding this to anyone. ill just tell you that the EARLIEST you should consume carbs for the insulin is WITH the shot and then throughout the following hours. thats it.

yeah, not rocket science but science. you cant just eat some carbs at some point, then inject some insulin hours later and expect magic to happen lol

bro. .. let me tell you something about reading books. .. it's not reality.. bodybuilding is different... I have been to 250 bodybuilding shows and have Mr Olympian contestants stay at my house for the weekend

This isn't about "go read this or go read that""

Eating a huge carb meal takes 1 and half hours to reach the blood stream.. glucose doesn't just run out by the time you take your slin shot and as I stated you still need sugar after the slin shot obviously.... I am not promoting eating 2 hours prior to your slin shot as your primary source of glucose but there is huge benefits to being fully carbed prior to your slin shit

I will go into detail on why tomoro and yes the pros do this even during contest prep

BTW.  Way to take my post out of context  

[Jizmo]

...

This isn't about "go read this or go read that""

Eating a huge carb meal takes 1 and half hours to reach the blood stream.. glucose doesn't just run out by the time you take your slin shot and as I stated you still need sugar after the slin shot obviously.... I am not promoting eating 2 hours prior to your slin shot as your primary source of glucose but there is huge benefits to being fully carbed prior to your slin shit

...

this is completely wrong. its also dangerous to beginners...
this statement alone can be easily falsified through a simple blood sugar test. by 1 and a half hours your blood sugar will be close to BACK TO NORMAL. blood sugar also rises RAPIDLY and peaks WITHIN 30-60 minutes, even after a mixed meal (which contains fat, slowing down digestion).
simple as that.


my opinion also doesnt come from "reading books", but from relying on scientific data and then extensively testing that on myself...
just because some bodybuilder meatheads have been doing something for decades it does not give a certain practise scientific value or reliability.

[OTHstrong]

this is completely wrong. its also dangerous to beginners...
this statement alone can be easily falsified through a simple blood sugar test. by 1 and a half hours your blood sugar will be close to BACK TO NORMAL. blood sugar also rises RAPIDLY and peaks WITHIN 30-60 minutes, even after a mixed meal (which contains fat, slowing down digestion).
simple as that.


my opinion also doesnt come from "reading books", but from relying on scientific data and then extensively testing that on myself...
just because some bodybuilder meatheads have been doing something for decades it does not give a certain practise scientific value or reliability.

of course it does, that is what we are discussing through experience and practice and the 300lb meat head knows what is effective. Did you not read the part where I eat banana bread (100 grams of carbs) and another 60 grams in my drink after the slin shot?? .... so how the fuck would this be putting a beginner in jeopardy. The carb loading process is ideal to to facilitate the volume in the muscle as a flat muscle will not fully reap the benefits of a volumized workout. No where in any of my post did I state don't take carbs after a slin shot, thats just plain retarded,... who the fuck wouldn't know that.

so you googled something and think its correct. I can google 100 sites that will say complex carbs take 1 and half hours to reach your blood stream, what you claimed is incorrect, here is a cut and paste from a the university site;

How long does it take for a food to change to sugar in the blood?

Carbohydrate food: most is changed to sugar within 1 1/2 hours after eating.

Protein food: half is changed to sugar within 3-4 hours after eating.

Fatty food: a small amount is changed to sugar within several hours after eating.

As you can see, carbohydrate foods make your blood sugar level go up the fastest. To control your blood sugar, keep track of the number of carbohydrate choices in your meals and snacks. Use your meal pattern that your health care provider or dietitian gave you to plan meals that give you a variety of foods.



Stop relying a google search cause you can find whatever answer you want, it counts for nothing.

[Jizmo]

so you googled something and think its correct. I can google 100 sites that will say complex carbs take 1 and half hours to reach your blood stream, what you claimed is incorrect, here is a cut and paste from a the university site;

no you cant and you didnt.

How long does it take for a food to change to sugar in the blood?

Carbohydrate food: most is changed to sugar within 1 1/2 hours after eating.

...

do you know the meaning of the word WITHIN?

eat 100g carbs from bread. then measure your blood sugar 5 minutes later (yes, within FIVE minutes your blood sugar elevates)
then measure again 60mins later and 120mins later
i GUARANTEE that BS levels will be the highest after 60mins and will be back to normal after 120 mins
if your blood sugar levels are NOT dropping towards normal levels 120 minutes after eating then you are a PRE DIABETIC or DIABETIC already.
this is a SCIENTIFIC FACT.
this is actually how people are TESTED for diabetes oral glucose tolerance test. read up on it.
if your blood sugar stays significantly elevated for longer than 120 minutes after a meal then you are pre diabetic. period.

Stop relying a google search cause you can find whatever answer you want, it counts for nothing.

so science and hard evidence doesnt matter ? ok, eat your banana bread and have fun im just telling you straight facts. whether you WANT to believe them or want to believe that you know everything and been doing everything right is your piece of cake, not mine.

[OTHstrong]

no you cant and you didnt.
do you know the meaning of the word WITHIN?

eat 100g carbs from bread. then measure your blood sugar 5 minutes later (yes, within FIVE minutes your blood sugar elevates)
then measure again 60mins later and 120mins later
i GUARANTEE that BS levels will be the highest after 60mins and will be back to normal after 120 mins
if your blood sugar levels are NOT back to normal 120 minutes after eating then you are a PRE DIABETIC or DIABETIC already.
this is a SCIENTIFIC FACT.
this is actually how people are TESTED for diabetes oral glucose tolerance test. read up on it.
if your blood sugar stays significantly elevated for longer than 90-120 minutes after a meal then you are pre diabetic. period.
so science and hard evidence doesnt matter ? ok, eat your banana bread and have fun im just telling you straight facts. whether you WANT to believe them or want to believe that you know everything and been doing everything right is your piece of cake, not mine.

What do you mean ''no I didn't''?? wtf ? Are you blind or are you calling me a liar? Your the second coming of tbomz who did nothing but google everything and while he was extremely knowledgeable, the real deal is what pro bodybuilders do since they are on the highest spectrum of practical results.

[OTHstrong]

In regards to fat within the muscle fibers isnt that something you'd actually want in terms of body building?

Afro carribean genetics actually carry more fat within their biceps and coincidentally have some of the best arm genetics.

Personally i say just save slin as a last resort then fucking pound it for a few years till you start regressing then give up the game.

Ramis short time training and blasting straight upto the top is probably  whats kept his waist tight for now.

Colemans waist line prior to the 00's was crazy as well.

some like the results and the look but the more fat you have within the muscle the less harder you can get, less graininess, less striations and less dryness.

[OTHstrong]

HERE IS ANOTHER ONE FOR YOU. I cut and past from another website.

The Post-Meal State

You remain in the fasting state until you eat some food containing carbohydrates. After eating, any pure glucose that was present in your food will be absorbed into your bloodstream within fifteen minutes. Other carbohydrates will require digestion. Those that digest quickly--the so-called "high glycemic carbs" like white flour or sugar--typically take between a half hour and an hour enter your bloodstream. Slower acting carbohydrates like whole grains or pasta may take an hour to two or even, in the case of some hard-wheat pastas, three hours to release their glucose into your blood.

AHHH YA I CAN

100, I take that back I can find 1 thousand

[Jizmo]

What do you mean ''no I didn't''?? wtf ? Are you blind or are you calling me a liar? Your the second coming of tbomz who did nothing but google everything and while he was extremely knowledgeable, the real deal is what pro bodybuilders do since they are on the highest spectrum of practical results.

i said you misinterpret the wording of the study you posted.
it exactly underlines my point, not yours

there are countless drug protocols of pro bodybuilders that work. that does not make them the optimum though.
there are countless "tapering" protocols for AAS, bridging, pulsing etc. it all works, its just not perfection.
just like slin DOES work with your timing, but going by scietific evidence its far from optimal.

believe me, im the LAST one to believe everything i read. but i do give science more credibility than oral propaganda by bodybuilders, especially because many of these are pathological liars.
my personal endeavour is to NEVER go by what anyone claims to be the "perfect" protocol, but to find the "perfect protocol" myself through research and experimenting.
imo you gotta think outside the box to achieve better results than the people inside the box.

HERE IS ANOTHER ONE FOR YOU. I cut and past from another website.

The Post-Meal State

You remain in the fasting state until you eat some food containing carbohydrates. After eating, any pure glucose that was present in your food will be absorbed into your bloodstream within fifteen minutes. Other carbohydrates will require digestion. Those that digest quickly--the so-called "high glycemic carbs" like white flour or sugar--typically take between a half hour and an hour enter your bloodstream. Slower acting carbohydrates like whole grains or pasta may take an hour to two or even, in the case of some hard-wheat pastas, three hours to release their glucose into your blood.

AHHH YA I CAN

100, I take that back I can find 1 thousand

you underlined the wrong part fixed that for you. and this is another study that EXACTLY underlines my point, not yours so thank you for posting that.

[OTHstrong]

here is another one EINSTEIN 

Post-Meal Sugar Peak
Two types of carbs -- sugars and starches -- are responsible for increasing your blood sugar. After you eat these carbs, digestive enzymes break them down into simple sugars, which are absorbed into your bloodstream. The pancreas responds to the influx of sugar by releasing insulin, which returns sugar levels back to normal. Blood sugar begins to rise about 20 minutes after you eat. It can peak at that time if you consumed quickly digested carbs, such as hard candy or juice. After a balanced meal containing protein, fat and fiber, blood sugar peaks about one to two hours after eating. Your blood sugar should drop back down to its lowest level two to four hours after a meal.

[Jizmo]

here is another one EINSTEIN  

Post-Meal Sugar Peak
Two types of carbs -- sugars and starches -- are responsible for increasing your blood sugar. After you eat these carbs, digestive enzymes break them down into simple sugars, which are absorbed into your bloodstream. The pancreas responds to the influx of sugar by releasing insulin, which returns sugar levels back to normal. Blood sugar begins to rise about 20 minutes after you eat. It can peak at that time if you consumed quickly digested carbs, such as hard candy or juice. After a balanced meal containing protein, fat and fiber, blood sugar peaks about one to two hours after eating. Your blood sugar should drop back down to its lowest level two to four hours after a meal.

aaand again exactly what i am stating all the time. you keep proving my point  

[OTHstrong]

aaand again exactly what i am stating all the time. you keep proving my point  

So, let me get this straight, You are saying 1 and half to 2 hours like all the information I provided from google, ok then glad you retracted that I was wrong. 

[Jizmo]

So, let me get this straight, You are saying 1 and half to 2 hours like all the information I provided from google, ok then glad you retracted that I was wrong.  

not a single of your studies claims one and a half to 2 hours to peak blood sugar elevations.
or do you drink a shake of hard wheat fiber enriched pasta prior to your workout  

i am saying this: (and im using EXCLUSIVELY YOUR QUOTES)

Blood sugar begins to rise about 20 minutes after you eat. It can peak at that time if you consumed quickly digested carbs, such as hard candy or juice.

 this is exactly what i posted at the top of this page.

After eating, any pure glucose that was present in your food will be absorbed into your bloodstream within fifteen minutes. Other carbohydrates will require digestion. Those that digest quickly--the so-called "high glycemic carbs" like white flour or sugar--typically take between a half hour and an hour enter your bloodstream.

this is exactly in line with what i said, blood sugar peaks from shortly after eating until minute 90.

also that

Slower acting carbohydrates like whole grains or pasta may take an hour to two (...) to release their glucose into your blood.

as i said, slower acting carbs take a bit longer (not significantly longer though, ALL sugar is released within (WITHIN, not AFTER) 1-2 hours)

in addition, this is exactly what i said too

Your blood sugar should drop back down to its lowest level two (...) hours after a meal.

these are ALL your quotes by the way.
you underlined every single one of my points with your studies.

[OTHstrong]

not a single of your studies claims one and a half to 2 hours to peak blood sugar elevations.
or do you drink a shake of hard wheat fiber enriched pasta prior to your workout  

i am saying this: (and im using EXCLUSIVELY YOUR QUOTES)
 this is exactly what i posted at the top of this page.
this is exactly in line with what i said, blood sugar peaks from shortly after eating until minute 90.

also that as i said, slower acting carbs take a bit longer (not significantly longer though, ALL sugar is released within (WITHIN, not AFTER) 1-2 hours)

in addition, this is exactly what i said too
these are ALL your quotes by the way.
you underlined every single one of my points with your studies.

You seem to be under the impression that your blood sugar level has to be at its peak in order for slin to do anything?

[Jizmo]

You seem to be under the impression that your blood sugar level has to be at its peak in order for slin to do anything?

well, its certainly not a necessity, but this is the optimum that im trying to achieve.
if you are able to elevate endogenous blood glucose levels ACCORDING to the exogenous insulin levels then you have achieved the perfect scenario...

think about it that way: from a physiological perspective insulin is a (minimally delayed) response to blood sugar
(blood sugar and insulin levels always rise and fall simultaneously with a very short delay)
blood sugar rises -> insulin rises
the curves of blood sugar and insulin always correlate and look the same basically
however this is the ENDOGENOUS insulin response. your body releases insulin ACCORDING to your blood sugar levels.


now with EXOGENOUS insulin you try to imitate the same raise/fall pattern in the exact same way, BUT its but the other way around:
you have to raise your blood sugar ACCORDING to your insulin levels to get the best results.
from a physiological perspective it makes sense to try to imitate the endogenous insulin response curves to blood sugar but ACCORDING to the amount of exogenous insulin (if you are able to elevate blood sugar levels and insulin levels completely simultaneously then this would be the most optimal scenario imo)

i hope my point is coming along better now. im not saying your protocol is stupid or doesnt work ! im just saying this is how i consider one would get the most out of exogenous insulin use.

[herraisland]

Is it normal to puke blood after test prop injection ?

[Weedlejuice]

Take slin, eat carbs, up the drugs and gh if you're getting fat 👌

[ritch]

Is it normal to puke blood after test prop injection ?

Gonna have to go with "no"