Will this be the new MR OLYMPIA?!?

[Humble Narcissist]

What will happen to Nick's veins on his legs when he retires and drops his size?

He should just amputate from the knees down.

[Rambone]

He's very serious in this pic, he's tough guy?

He sure is, pamith. He sure is.

[Van_Bilderass]

Your improved EF is probably due to reduced blood pressure from lower dosages and reduced bodyweight then Im thinking.

Long term steroid use is very much linked to bad EF. I googled a study on it and it showed 10 out of 12 bodybuilders in the study had below normal/healthy range
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIRCHEARTFAILURE.109.931063

I been on TRT(+)250-300mg for some time now and should check mine. if it's bad I would likely stop completly, get on HCG maybe or lower to 100 or so

I'm obviously not a doctor nor giving advice, just perhaps giving an idea to explore. An asshole guru by the name of Victor Black popularized the use of telmisartan as possibly a good idea for steroid users to implement even before any big BP or heart issues. Basically, in his opinion, from the start of taking any steroids. It might prevent or protect against harmful CV effects from the PEDs, like negative heart remodeling. Personally in hindsight I would have done so. Maybe a microdose of daily tadalafil could be a good idea also.

Here's why Life Extension Foundation likes telmisartan.

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/3/best-drug-to-treat-hypertension

[GymnJuice]

I'm obviously not a doctor nor giving advice, just perhaps giving an idea to explore. An asshole guru by the name of Victor Black popularized the use of telmisartan as possibly a good idea for steroid users to implement even before any big BP or heart issues. Basically, in his opinion, from the start of taking any steroids. It might prevent or protect against harmful CV effects from the PEDs, like negative heart remodeling. Personally in hindsight I would have done so. Maybe a microdose of daily tadalafil could be a good idea also.

Here's why Life Extension Foundation likes telmisartan.

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/3/best-drug-to-treat-hypertension

I doubt we'll ever see robust data tailored specifically to preventing heart disease in anabolic steroid users. It's a niche population that's tough to study and there's no money to fund it.

That said, if heart failure is already diagnosed you might look into entresto over the telmisartan if it isn't cost prohibitive.

[Methyl m1ke]

I doubt we'll ever see robust data tailored specifically to preventing heart disease in anabolic steroid users. It's a niche population that's tough to study and there's no money to fund it.

That said, if heart failure is already diagnosed you might look into entresto over the telmisartan if it isn't cost prohibitive.

If you have a moment, what chances do heart failure patients have of making a recovery? Cant be zero or theyd be dead right?

[Van_Bilderass]

I doubt we'll ever see robust data tailored specifically to preventing heart disease in anabolic steroid users. It's a niche population that's tough to study and there's no money to fund it.

That said, if heart failure is already diagnosed you might look into entresto over the telmisartan if it isn't cost prohibitive.

True, you're not going to get data. It seems logical that keeping BP in range and reducing the AAS induced RAAS cascade could be prophylactic, plus you get improved insulin sensitivity and so on. I haven't looked at Entresto at all, I see it's a combo med, might be more complicated to evaluate? Same with improving blood blow and lowering BP with even just supps like Arginine or drugs like Cialis.

Theoretical, but still...

If you have a moment, what chances do heart failure patients have of making a recovery? Cant be zero or theyd be dead right?

I had bad heart failure some 5+ years ago, near death. PEDs plus Covid induced. Now I'm near normal and don't have heart failure symptoms. There are many different kinds of heart failure. PED induced heart failure can improve drastically in many cases but it may not be cured per se, depends on how you look at it I guess.

[Methyl m1ke]

True, you're not going to get data. I haven't looked at Entresto at all, I see it's a combo med, might be more complicated to evaluate?

I had bad heart failure some 5+ years ago, near death. PEDs plus Covid induced. Now I'm near normal and don't have heart failure symptoms. There are many different kinds of heart failure. PED induced heart failure can improve drastically in many cases but it may not be cured per se, depends on how you look at it I guess.

How about in elderly patients?

[Van_Bilderass]

How about in elderly patients?

I wouldn't dare to say. The leg.org page has some warning wrt older patients and BP control, such as them maybe needing higher BP for sufficient blood flow through old organs.

[GymnJuice]

If you have a moment, what chances do heart failure patients have of making a recovery? Cant be zero or theyd be dead right?

It depends on the cause of the heart failure and how long it has been present. If it is caused by a blockage and you fix the blockage quickly it is more likely to recover. If it is from hormones and you stop the hormones and get on the right medicines, then you're more likely to recover function. If it was caused by a virus you'd expect recovery over the course of several months, but a year to recover is not unheard of. Generally speaking the longer the EF has been low the less likely it is to recover, but you're right the chances are never 0.

Also, the EF does not always correlate to symptoms. In other words, some folks with an EF of less than 20 can still live seemingly normal lives with no apparent detriment to their daily routine. Others might have an EF of 40 and feel winded just going across the street. Exercise programs and diet changes can help drastically in addition to the drugs.

[MAXX]

True, you're not going to get data. It seems logical that keeping BP in range and reducing the AAS induced RAAS cascade could be prophylactic, plus you get improved insulin sensitivity and so on. I haven't looked at Entresto at all, I see it's a combo med, might be more complicated to evaluate? Same with improving blood blow and lowering BP with even just supps like Arginine or drugs like Cialis.

Theoretical, but still...

I had bad heart failure some 5+ years ago, near death. PEDs plus Covid induced. Now I'm near normal and don't have heart failure symptoms. There are many different kinds of heart failure. PED induced heart failure can improve drastically in many cases but it may not be cured per se, depends on how you look at it I guess.

though you mentioned you hold alot of water at times.

This could be a sign of reduced heart function. As it's not "water" per se as some would think but blood. Blood pooling because the heart is too weak to pump it around and return it. Usually pools in the legs.


Look at Jon Skywalker

He landed himself in the hospital with a heart failure and his EFR was down to 20%. That was one year ago. His legs still are swollen which means low EFR/not recovered. Unfortunately many see it as his days are numbered.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Soosh/comments/1lepfjh/send_jon_skywalker_your_energy_boyos/

[Methyl m1ke]

I wouldn't dare to say. The leg.org page has some warning wrt older patients and BP control, such as them maybe needing higher BP for sufficient blood flow through old organs.

I read the same. Im concerned hes taking too many medications

In the AM his bp is 127/73, after morning meds its about 104/48ish

[MAXX]

I'm obviously not a doctor nor giving advice, just perhaps giving an idea to explore. An asshole guru by the name of Victor Black popularized the use of telmisartan as possibly a good idea for steroid users to implement even before any big BP or heart issues. Basically, in his opinion, from the start of taking any steroids. It might prevent or protect against harmful CV effects from the PEDs, like negative heart remodeling. Personally in hindsight I would have done so. Maybe a microdose of daily tadalafil could be a good idea also.

Here's why Life Extension Foundation likes telmisartan.

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/3/best-drug-to-treat-hypertension

funny I just watched this "looksmaxer" taking/advicing that aswell

also he advices to take beta blocker propranolol.

[Van_Bilderass]

though you mentioned you hold alot of water at times.

This could be a sign of reduced heart function. As it's not "water" per se as some would think but blood. Blood pooling because the heart is too weak to pump it around and return it. Usually pools in the legs.


Look at Jon Skywalker

He landed himself in the hospital with a heart failure and his EFR was down to 20%. That was one year ago. His legs still are swollen which means low EFR/not recovered. Unfortunately many see it as his days are numbered.

You're water retention is absolutely a sign of heart or kidney failure. It's risky for me but I've taken things like MK-677 which cause water retention and I was just recently given IV Lasix at hospital to reduce water. I obviously didn't tell them why I had water retention and it was 'situational' so to speak and not due to illness. When I had heart failure I was prescribed aldactone and other diuretics but my potassium got too high so got taken off. I never heard of blood pooling in the legs but I know what water edema in the ankles looks and feels like. Propranolol is not usually used in HF nowadays; I use metoprolol. Nebivolol is the choice of beta-blocker in the bb community because it's been shown to increase nitric oxide unlike others and some other things. Propranolol is good if you have physical signs of anxiety; good for public speaking. I wanted telmisartan but my doc had only worked with candesartan so I didn't press it even though telmi would be better as a "bodybuilder" probably due to the beneficial metabolic effects. I don't know if I said it in this thread but I just got new heart imaging done and it was "good."

[Methyl m1ke]

I wouldn't dare to say. The leg.org page has some warning wrt older patients and BP control, such as them maybe needing higher BP for sufficient blood flow through old organs.

Leg.org?

[Methyl m1ke]

You're water retention is absolutely a sign of heart or kidney failure. It's risky for me but I've taken things like MK-677 which cause water retention and I was just recently given IV Lasix at hospital to reduce water. I obviously didn't tell them why I had water retention and it was 'situational' so to speak and not due to illness. When I had heart failure I was prescribed aldactone and other diuretics but my potassium got too high so got taken off. I never heard of blood pooling in the legs but I know what water edema in the ankles looks and feels like. Propranolol is not usually used in HF nowadays; I use metoprolol. Nebivolol is the choice of beta-blocker in the bb community because it's been shown to increase nitric oxide unlike others and some other things. Propranolol is good if you have physical signs of anxiety; good for public speaking. I wanted telmisartan but my doc had only worked with candesartan so I didn't press it even though telmi would be better as a "bodybuilder" probably due to the beneficial metabolic effects. I don't know if I said it in this thread but I just got new heart imaging done and it was "good."

Does metaprolol give you side effects? Tired, no energy that sort of thing

[pamith]

He sure is, pamith. He sure is.

Brutal if true