Author Topic: Pullovers bad for u  (Read 2719 times)

davie

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Pullovers bad for u
« on: September 18, 2006, 08:04:37 AM »
Does anyone hear regard pullovers a shoulder wrecker??
I was enjoying doing heavy high/low rep pullover press but left shoulder started bothering me, was also doign high pulls at the time.
Havnt done either since and pains gone away. was thinking of adding back in the pullover but not high pulls and see what happens??

davie
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pumpster

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2006, 08:15:47 AM »
You were doing a combo movement; determine which part caused the problem and keep the reps moderate in the 10-15 range after a good warmup after that. Shoulder probs are unlikely from pullovers IMO.

Overload

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2006, 08:34:55 AM »
I agree with pumpster...i've never heard of people having problems from doing pullovers.

were you doing them with a BB or DB? i prefer to do them with a DB or machine pullovers...i've never had any issues with my shoulders doing them, but i always stay in the 8-15 rep range.

maybe you have a pre-existing problem that you are aggrevating?

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JPM

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 08:59:13 AM »
Some guy's will use a too of a wide grip when doing pullovers (that can go for the straight arm version also). The grip should be closer together, like 6-8" or so, when using a bar. Even a medium grip can cause too much stress on the shoulder joints for some people. A bad angle of the wrist/elbows can also affect the shoulder joints, transfering undo stress onto the shoulders. Some have used a EZ bar, rather than a straight bar. I prefer DB's when doing bent arm pullovers because of the more natural grip, allowing less stress on the wrist/elbows/shoulders.  I've used some respectable poundage doing DB pullovers/press for years without any serious injuries of any kind. I do take time for a complete stretch and warm-up before approaching any serious weight with the DB's.

The high pulls  need a serious warm-up also. Some people may not use a proper grip/hand spacing for their body type. May want to explore which grip gives less stress on the shoulders. A common cause is  too wide of a grip, giving undo stress to the shoulder region when heavy weights are used. Might want to take a couple weeks off these two lifts and come back with a little different gripping style/warming-up process. Good Luck.


davie

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 10:07:19 AM »
I did high rep DB pullover press, mostly 3x15, occasionlayl added couple lower rep higher weight sets after, but not that often??

davie
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Jr. Yates

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2006, 11:44:29 AM »
no matter what Weight I use, Pullovers kill my shoulder! I don't have a bad shoulder at all but when I do the pullover it feels like my shoulders are going to pop out! i can do them on a machine so I do. But i've been fine without them so Im not going to force myself to do them.
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dontknowit

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 05:34:46 AM »
My body would agree with you, my mind tells me that it depends.

The same with rear pulldown and/or behind neck press. Some people tend to suffer from them, others not. If it previously didn't bother you, give it a couple of weeks rest, and try again.
It it itches with other excersises, go see the docter. It could be a other problem.

pumpster

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 06:09:05 AM »
Quote
no matter what Weight I use, Pullovers kill my shoulder! I don't have a bad shoulder at all but when I do the pullover it feels like my shoulders are going to pop out! i can do them on a machine so I do. But i've been fine without them so Im not going to force myself to do them.
It could be that the movement of this particular machine doesn't agree with you, since it's forcing a rigid pattern of ROM. Once the shoulders are better, if you're interested try some decline pullovers using the end of a dumbbell, keeping the weight moderate and reps moderate-high.


Quote
did high rep DB pullover press, mostly 3x15, occasionlayl added couple lower rep higher weight sets after, but not that often??
1/ Always keep the reps higher.
2/ Split up the motions into presses and pullovers, and do them in separate workouts, to find out which one is the cause of the problem. Do presses one workout, then in another workout do just pullovers.

WOOO

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 02:32:18 PM »
personally dumbbell pullovers do not hurt my shoulders... however, i don't think they help build mass... why do them anyway...

pumpster

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 02:42:24 PM »
Pullovers are one of the best for lats, possibly the best.

JPM

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2006, 03:10:50 PM »
DB pullover's (with added presses if you wish...making it even more productive) are a prime upper body mass builder. People will treat this exercise as just a light stretching exercise, which would be totally missing the point of this result producing compound exercise. Lat's/back, triceps,delts and pec's can get hit very hard doing the complete pullover & press. Some have called it the upper body squat with good reason. It can be hard at first.

100-120 lb  DB are not out of the question for a lot of BB'ers after awhile. 160-180's for some of the more middle range men.  I've witnessed 205-215 on a few occasions. 220-270lbs with a BB is not that uncommon for most. After a good warm-up/stretch feel free to challenge yourself with using heavier weights on this very rewarding exercise. I have used the DB pullover & press as the only upper body movement when doing GVT (10X10's) with rewarding results.

Even doing straight arm pullovers (BB or DB...120 to 150 can seem moderate after awhile) is a outstanding lat exercise as Pumpster suggest. Also hit's the triceps hard. If you do the straight are version try starting with the arm's fully extended, from time to time, at the upper thigh region and make a complete arc overhead to a full stretch position behind the head. And than back over to the starting position of the upper thighs, with complete control in both directions. Brings the delts and other supporting muscles into play more. Good Luck.

WOOO

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2006, 03:17:59 PM »
Pullovers are one of the best for lats, possibly the best.


oh i do love a machine pullover.... but i think the DB version is useless.... although i think that the BB version with the EZ might be interesting if i was on a slight decline bench....

oh well... maybe it's time i revisit this in the gym

GoneAway

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2006, 06:24:34 AM »
Does anyone hear regard pullovers a shoulder wrecker??
I was enjoying doing heavy high/low rep pullover press but left shoulder started bothering me, was also doign high pulls at the time.
Havnt done either since and pains gone away. was thinking of adding back in the pullover but not high pulls and see what happens??

davie

I've had shoulder problems doing DB pullovers. The main reason why I stopped. I found for what I was looking for (rib cage extension) I got a better feel from the machine pullovers with no shoulder prob.

rccs

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2006, 07:28:59 AM »
Does anyone hear regard pullovers a shoulder wrecker??
I was enjoying doing heavy high/low rep pullover press but left shoulder started bothering me, was also doign high pulls at the time.
Havnt done either since and pains gone away. was thinking of adding back in the pullover but not high pulls and see what happens??

davie
I always felt lots of pain on my shoulders while I was doind pullovers, until I sotopped doindg it!
S

texasRUSH

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2006, 07:31:39 AM »
Quote
no matter what Weight I use, Pullovers kill my shoulder! I don't have a bad shoulder at all but when I do the pullover it feels like my shoulders are going to pop out!

yep

Overload

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2006, 07:43:57 AM »
Pullovers are one of the best for lats, possibly the best.

I agree...

i prefer machine pullovers but DB's are good also if you do them correctly...i would guess most guys have pain because they don't do them correctly, go too heavy or have a pre-existing rotator cuff problem.

pullovers made a huge difference in my lats...i do them every back day now.

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JPM

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Re: Pullovers bad for u
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2006, 08:21:45 AM »
With a pullover type machine the upper body is held more stable. With a BB/DB more supporting muscles are brought into play. The point of resistence is on the elbows (I hope), which gives a pullover machine a better advantage, with less stress on the muscle link starting from the grip to the shoulder area. The main focus being on the lat's themselves. The center of gravity is also changed (sitting vs, lying) giving a different muscle strength curve (and stress) to the exercise. Nautilis machines would be my first choice because of the cam gear and  the front curl grip lat bar for pre-exhaustion style training. I have used both the Nautilis & free weights, with both having a place in most trainee's workout plan.

If one finds pain or discomfort in the BB/DB pullover (or any other exercisae for that matter) than don't do that exercise. Like the squat, some people can not preform the exercise without discomfort.  No matter how many people tell you that you must do squats, be your own judge. If their not for you, than their not for you. 

I find that a lot people are way too stiff in the shoulder girdle area when first trying to do a pullover (or PBN's). Mistake being that they try to rush the weight their using, too soon, before ready for heavier stuff. There may even be a lurking shoulder problem one is not aware of that comes to light from doing pullovers or any other exercise. It seems to me that a lot of trainee's who spend too much of their workouts on machines tend to be not that flexable in certain body muscle/joint groups. May be wrong but that's the impression I get. The pullover should be appraoched with caution at first until getting use to it. If you can do pullovers without any problems than you might try the following. A set of straight arm pullovers followed immediately by heavier bent arm pullovers. A very fine upper body mass builder. Good Luck.