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Author Topic: Slayer, please read  (Read 3749 times)
NarcissisticDeity
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I dont care what Ronnie says bc hes not a credible


« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2006, 02:04:49 PM »

ND, you are completely wrong.  Anyone who saw the show knows that Cutler did no such thing.  Ronnie is the sole reason he lost the Mr. Olympia.  He came in off.  It is that simple.  Looking at the pics, I completely change my prior opinion.  He has not in any way ripped his lats.  He is still able to flex it to a degree.  Instead, I believe he has severe arthritis in his left rotator cuff that has severely hampered his ability to train that side of his body effectively.  Proof, look at the most recent GP event.  He was actually spreading his back in some poses.  I bet he got a cortisone shot or IM toradol.  Regardless, I feel that Coleman likely has a serious shoulder injury.  That would make training his arms, shoulders and back very difficult.  If it hurts to move the joint, you cannot work any of the muscles that attach at that site.  If you look at the Mr. Olympia pics, it is obvious that Coleman is smaller than usual.  His legs and chest were huge (along with the GH gut), but his back was severely lacking, as were his shoulders and triceps on the left side. 

Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.

We're dealing in facts here and not fantasy Jay Cutler beat Ronnie Coleman at the 2006 Mr Olympia fair & square anyone who thinks otherwise is delsuional

Did Jay beat Ronnie at his all-time best? NO could Jay beat Ronnie at his all-time best ? NO but we're NOT dealing in the past we're dealing in the present and Ronnie Coleman didn't show up anywhere near his best and thats in all probability his own fault . he specifically said before the contest he wasn't injured and post contest his camp again claimed NO injuries , how a man with 14 years of professional bodybuilding competition experience blows the most important contest of his career is beyond me

Jay can only beat the Ronnie who shows up and the one who showed up was way off and he paid the price for it , Jay still had to be good enough to beat that version of Ronnie and he was , clearly better . Jay Cutler will always be remembered as the guy who stopped Ronnie Coleman dead in his tracks and you can add in the fact that Ronnie Coleman helped him which makes it worse ON Ronnie , if Jay came in small & flat Ronnie would have squeeked another close call victory but Jay did his part by comming in improved from 2005 and simply accumulated more of the mandatory poses and seperated himself from Coleman as the better of the two

Jay was huge.. pound-for-pound just as big as Ronnie and much better conditioned , he had fewer weaknesses and had total control over his gut at all times , Ronnie was huge and soft , carrying excess water , his pecs , delts and arms were all HUGE but so was his gut and his quads which like his delts were devoid of detail and crispness his back one-time among the best was apparently torn on one side and lacked depth and detail , much like his triceps , Ronnie was a mess and paid the price for it

I personaly don't like Coleman's physique and I don't like Cutlers , I don't think he is Mr Olympia material but based on the criteria they've been using for years the judged picked the right guy , the funny part is if Ronnie did win every Coleman fan wouldn't be claiming that Ronnie is past-his-prime , a shell of his former self , ect they would all be patting themselves on the back and saying how he was still good enough to win , hell some are doing that now lol but again

Either way Jason Cutler beat Ronnie Coleman and stopped him from beating Lee Haney's record , he made history ( with help from Coleman ) and no one can ever take that from him even though some are trying already .

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Hulkster
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ND ran away from me


« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2006, 02:33:13 PM »

Quote
Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.

truer words have rarely been spoken.
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Flower Boy Ran Away
Dorian 01
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Ronnie Rockel > Ronnie Coleman


« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2006, 03:38:14 PM »

Cutler admitted on Chick's radio show that he knows he beat an off Coleman.
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Team Cancer
suckmymuscle
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« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2006, 09:18:07 PM »

no, that would be the truth as 99.9999% of the world sees it.

If you were to all of sudden argue that 2+2 =5, you could convince yourself that it was true.

and you could say that it is only the "opinion" of everyone else that it is actually 4.

But that does not mean you would be right:

  Too bad that muscularity&symmetry are the criterias which bodybuilding contests are judged by, and "shape", as I said in the truce thread, is evaluated together with symmetry, but it is not something that the judges have to consider. A specific judge might decide that a bodybuilder has better shape and reward him for that, or he may not. Dorian didn't have a problem defeating guys who, in your opinion, have better shape. like Wheeler, Kevin and Coleman(smaller waists, rounder muscles, more striations, etc). So, this proves that by no means would Coleman defeat Dorian because he combines size with shape. Dorian did compete against Coleman and Levrone, both of whom had smaller and rounder muscles than Dorian at over 250 lbs, so your argument is weak.

  Dorian defeated guys who outweighed him by 30 lbs, like Fux and Nasser, and he defeated guys who had, according to your criteria, vastly superior shape(Wheeler, Ray, etc). Don't try to argue that Coleman defeating Dorian because he was 250 lbs with a small waist is a certain thing, because even Nasser, at 285 lbs, had a smaller waist than Dorian and Diesel defeated him with straight-firsts scores. Yes, I know that Nasser has a completely different aesthetics than Ronnie, but the point is that no combination seemed to work at defeating Dorian: out-muscling him didn't work(Nasser, 1996 Olympia); coming in with better proportions didn't work(Shawn, 1994 Olympia). Coming in big&full with superb taper didn't work(Levrone, 1995 Olympia). So, you may or may not be right that a 257 lbs Ronnie with a smaller waist than Dorian would be able to defeat him, but comparisons clearly showed that nothing worked to defeat Dorian Yates.

   We will never know what would happen if the Dorian from the 1993/5 Olympia went against the Ronnie who showed up for the 1999 rendition of the contest; we do know, however, that Dorian would be the most muscular man onstage and, with the exception of his waist, he would have the better proportions. Oh, and also the better conditioning. All things considered, odds are that Dorian would win.


Quote
dorian's back never ever looked this good - in the opinion of almost everyone except you and ND. Think about that for a minute.

  In 1993, Dorian's latissumus, teres major, teres minor and infra-spinatus were the thickest and widest ever seen on a bodybuilding stage. So much so that he would only be surpassed a full decade latter, by Ronnie himself.

  Going against the 1999 Ronnie, the 1993 or 1995 Dorian would definitely have the best back when it comes to muscularity. Symmetry is debatable, but Dorian had superb proportions between all his back muscles. Dorian's lower back was more striated and his upper back had comparable separations. The only thing Ronnie would have on him, I think, would be cross-striations. But then, this is largely irrelevant, taking a back seat to width and thickness. Wink

SUCKMYMUSCLE
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