MONSTER TRICEPS! Ask JROD (Nattie BB CHAMP) Q & A

[jrod]

To me it's really amazing you've made the progress you have becuase I've seen studies showing that using whey alone is not great at all for building muscle mass compared to protein blends or whole food.

pobrecito,

Thats an interesting comment.  I'd like to look into this a bit more.  I have always thought that whey is the best protein for bodybuilders (Whey Isolate in particular).  I'll get back to you about this; but, thanks for bringing it up.  For now...


Okay, granted I did not do a very indepth search; just did one quick search with key words "whey" and "muscle" on pubmed.  Couldn't find anything comparing whey VS protein blends; but, I did find this:

1: Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Oct;16(5):494-509.Links
The effect of whey isolate and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma glutamine.Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Carey MF, Hayes A.
Exercise Metabolism Unit, Center for Ageing, Rehabilitation, Exercise and Sport (CARES), Australia.

Different dietary proteins affect whole body protein anabolism and accretion and therefore, have the potential to influence results obtained from resistance training. This study examined the effects of supplementation with two proteins, hydrolyzed whey isolate (WI) and casein (C), on strength, body composition, and plasma glutamine levels during a 10 wk, supervised resistance training program. In a double-blind protocol, 13 male, recreational bodybuilders supplemented their normal diet with either WI or C (1.5 gm/kg body wt/d) for the duration of the program. Strength was assessed by 1-RM in three exercises (barbell bench press, squat, and cable pull-down). Body composition was assessed by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry. Plasma glutamine levels were determined by the enzymatic method with spectrophotometric detection. All assessments occurred in the week before and the week following 10 wk of training. Plasma glutamine levels did not change in either supplement group following the intervention. The WI group achieved a significantly greater gain (P < 0.01) in lean mass than the C group (5.0 +/- 0.3 vs. 0.8 +/- 0.4 kg for WI and C, respectively) and a significant (P < 0.05) change in fat mass (-1.5 +/- 0.5 kg) compared to the C group (+0.2 +/- 0.3 kg). The WI group also achieved significantly greater (P < 0.05) improvements in strength compared to the C group in each assessment of strength. When the strength changes were expressed relative to body weight, the WI group still achieved significantly greater (P < 0.05) improvements in strength compared to the C group.

PMID: 17240782 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[jrod]

ITS UP!

My "In the Trenches" leg training segment is up:

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/category/30/126/204/

[saucetradomous]

Good informative Vids with Palumbo there.  He asked some good questions I was impressed.  I was suprised to see you take soo much rest between sets.  Is that just a post contest/ off season thing? and do you cut down rest time leading up to a contest to help burn a few calories? 

And one more question... Do you do anything soley for obliques?
Thanks in advanced.

I'm going to post some pics here to show some of the progress I've made with the helpful motivation of this thread. 
I was 210lbs at 5'7 when I started cutting.  I'm now around 175-180lbs.  It fluxuates alot when you get leaner I've noticed.  And Yes, I am a life time natural too!

 
 

[jrod]

Good informative Vids with Palumbo there.  He asked some good questions I was impressed.  I was suprised to see you take soo much rest between sets.  Is that just a post contest/ off season thing? and do you cut down rest time leading up to a contest to help burn a few calories? 

And one more question... Do you do anything soley for obliques?
Thanks in advanced.

I'm going to post some pics here to show some of the progress I've made with the helpful motivation of this thread. 
I was 210lbs at 5'7 when I started cutting.  I'm now around 175-180lbs.  It fluxuates alot when you get leaner I've noticed.  And Yes, I am a life time natural too!

 
 

First of all, good job on the progress you've made, thats a pretty drastic change (30+ pounds)!  You look good!  I'm glad this thread has been helpful to you. 

Regarding rest, it is the same pre-contest or off-season.  I do not vary my rest (or my weight-training workouts) to stimulate/enhance burning calories.  Regardless off what time of year, I lift to build muscle.  Diet (and cardio) will take care of getting me leaner. 

As for obliques, I do not directly train them; I think they get plenty of work as stabilizers during exercises like squats, deadlifts, barbell rows, overhead presses, etc.

[jrod]

To me it's really amazing you've made the progress you have becuase I've seen studies showing that using whey alone is not great at all for building muscle mass compared to protein blends or whole food.

So I spent some time doing a bit of research on this.  I used only PubMed to search for articles.  It was a bit difficult to find articles regarding this issue; but, here is what I found.

Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA Vol. 94, pp. 14930-14935, December 1997
Physiology
Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion
(amino acid turnover / postprandial protein anabolism / milk protein / stable isotopes)
Yves Boirie*, Martial Dangin*,, Pierre Gachon*, Marie-Paule Vasson, Jean-Louis Maubois§, and Bernard Beaufrčre*,¶

ABSTRACT 

The speed of absorption of dietary amino acids by the gut varies according to the type of ingested dietary protein. This could affect postprandial protein synthesis, breakdown, and deposition. To test this hypothesis, two intrinsically 13C-leucine-labeled milk proteins, casein (CAS) and whey protein (WP), of different physicochemical properties were ingested as one single meal by healthy adults. Postprandial whole body leucine kinetics were assessed by using a dual tracer methodology. WP induced a dramatic but short increase of plasma amino acids. CAS induced a prolonged plateau of moderate hyperaminoacidemia, probably because of a slow gastric emptying. Whole body protein breakdown was inhibited by 34% after CAS ingestion but not after WP ingestion. Postprandial protein synthesis was stimulated by 68% with the WP meal and to a lesser extent (+31%) with the CAS meal. Postprandial whole body leucine oxidation over 7 h was lower with CAS (272 ± 91 µmol·kg1) than with WP (373 ± 56 µmol·kg1). Leucine intake was identical in both meals (380 µmol·kg1). Therefore, net leucine balance over the 7 h after the meal was more positive with CAS than with WP (P < 0.05, WP vs. CAS). In conclusion, the speed of protein digestion and amino acid absorption from the gut has a major effect on whole body protein anabolism after one single meal. By analogy with carbohydrate metabolism, slow and fast proteins modulate the postprandial metabolic response, a concept to be applied to wasting situations. [/color] [/color]
Subjects.
Sixteen young healthy subjects participated in the different studies. All subjects had a normal physical examination (mean ± SD: age 24 ± 4 years; body mass index 21.9 ± 1.8 kg/m2). They maintained their usual physical activity, with an usual protein-energy intake of 38 kcal·kg1·d1 (16% protein) during the 3 days before the study. A written informed consent was obtained from each participant. The experimental protocol was approved by the Ethical Committee of Clermont-Ferrand.

Conclusion
In conclusion, we demonstrate that the speed of amino acid absorption after protein ingestion has a major impact on the postprandial metabolic response to a single protein meal. The slowly absorbed CAS promotes postprandial protein deposition by an inhibition of protein breakdown without excessive increase in amino acid concentration; by contrast, a fast dietary protein stimulates protein synthesis but also oxidation. This impact of amino acid absorption speed on protein metabolism is true when proteins are given alone, but as for carbohydrate, this might be blunted in more complex meals that could affect gastric emptying (lipids) and/or insulin response (carbohydrate); thus, further studies are needed to confirm the specific roles of nonprotein substrates on whole body protein metabolism. This concept of slow and fast proteins could be applied to circumstances in which protein deposition has to be improved (i.e., protein-energy malnutrition) and in which excessive protein intakes have to be avoided (elderlies, renal diseases). [/color]

From this I can see where you're coming from.  But, here's my defense of whey. 

First of all, these subjects had BMIs indicating they're probably not bodybuilders (they probably don't need the protein to build muscle like someone who trains).  Furthermore, their intake was only 16% protein (maybe when you eat so much protein like i do the effect is different).  Also, I am eating every 2 hours; this might change things (eating so frequently that despite the whey being emptied faster, its also being constantly eaten so it is never "empty"). 

Finally, regarding these comments: "true when proteins are given alone", "further studies are needed to confirm the specific roles of nonprotein substrates on whole body protein metabolism" , I eat my protein with carbs (and often times fat); therefore, this will slow down the whey. 

This was the only study I was able to find on this subject.  I found a somewhat related study regarding different proteins (fast and slow) for older people:

J Physiol. 2003 Jun 1;549(Pt 2):635-44. Epub 2003 Mar 28. Links
The rate of protein digestion affects protein gain differently during aging in humans.Dangin M, Guillet C, Garcia-Rodenas C, Gachon P, Bouteloup-Demange C, Reiffers-Magnani K, Fauquant J, Ballčvre O, Beaufrčre B.

This particular study cited the previous one, but went on to say that

"In conclusion, during aging, protein gain was greater with WP (rapidly digested protein), and lower with CAS (slowly digested protein). This suggests that a 'fast' protein might be more beneficial than a 'slow' one to limit protein losses during aging."

[Get Rowdy]

Sick forearms in this pic!    Good job.

[Super Natural]

Hi JRod

In your last full week of training before the week before the show (when your carbs where at their lowest) did you maintain the same intensity in your cardio? Or drop back to a more moderate intensity?

Also do you use any glutamine at all?

Perhaps I missed you mentioning it? It's just I noticed your carbs at your lowest point are quite a bit higher than mine (I'm at 110 grams a day) but then I'm taking in 90 grams of glutamine a day (ala Skip and Jeff) on top of the carbs so I think that supplements the low carbs and helps to keep my glycogen levels up, despite my lower carb intake. Next year I'm toying with the idea of maybe using less glutamine (something like 30 grams) and just use dextrose around my workouts. I like the Glutamine but it does get expensive especially at 90 -100 grams a day!

By the way, just saw the "In the Trenches" series was awesome! Well done, great to see knowledgeable Natural guys getting some recognition!

[flexingtonsteele]

congrats on your species nutrition sponsorship deal!

[jrod]

quote author=Super Natural link=topic=101414.msg2298561#msg2298561 date=1187164150

Hi JRod

In your last full week of training before the week before the show (when your carbs where at their lowest) did you maintain the same intensity in your cardio? Or drop back to a more moderate intensity?

My very last cardio session was done on friday, 1 week out.  I did this session, along with all the others, at high intensity.  If anything, I would do less time and still high intensity rather than moderate intensity at the same time.  If you're worried about this, then how about doing even higher intensity!, but for only 10 minutes, or 8 minutes (just make those few minutes count!).

Also do you use any glutamine at all?

Yes, I used about 5-10g before, 5g during, 10g after with cardio.  With lifting, I used about 5-10g before and 5-10g after. 

Perhaps I missed you mentioning it? It's just I noticed your carbs at your lowest point are quite a bit higher than mine (I'm at 110 grams a day) but then I'm taking in 90 grams of glutamine a day (ala Skip and Jeff) on top of the carbs so I think that supplements the low carbs and helps to keep my glycogen levels up, despite my lower carb intake. Next year I'm toying with the idea of maybe using less glutamine (something like 30 grams) and just use dextrose around my workouts. I like the Glutamine but it does get expensive especially at 90 -100 grams a day!

Yeah, glutamine is expensive.  I only used 20-30g per training day and usually none on off days.  My overall calories are higher than yours, so that should account for the extra carbs.  Also, my ratio of fat to protein/carbs is lower than yours (which I will up for next year's diet).

By the way, just saw the "In the Trenches" series was awesome! Well done, great to see knowledgeable Natural guys getting some recognition!

Thanks! I appreciate that

[jrod]

congrats on your species nutrition sponsorship deal!

Thanks, Flex.  I'm really happy about this.  When I started bodybuilding I thought that it would be really cool if one day I could just get free protein powder! hahaha...

[Honour]

Thanks, Flex.  I'm really happy about this.  When I started bodybuilding I thought that it would be really cool if one day I could just get free protein powder! hahaha...

Hahaha quotes like that make you a man after my own heart Jrod . Well done mate and keep up with the great info here, always love reading your posts!!!

[flexingtonsteele]

do u get all of the species nutrition products for free, like the fat burners and everything else???

Also now do u pimp all of their clothing as well???

And last but not least, your big time now man, a sticky on both getbig and MD!!!!!!! your the only person to have this. Congrads!!!!!!

Thanks, Flex.  I'm really happy about this.  When I started bodybuilding I thought that it would be really cool if one day I could just get free protein powder! hahaha...

[jrod]

do u get all of the species nutrition products for free, like the fat burners and everything else???

Also now do u pimp all of their clothing as well???

And last but not least, your big time now man, a sticky on both getbig and MD!!!!!!! your the only person to have this. Congrads!!!!!!

Well, the Species sponsorship is a new thing (just happened very recently) and Dave is still coming out with other products.  I've only tried Isolyze right now.  As for clothing, I wore a Species shirt while training legs yesterday.  Brand new black shirt and I got chalk all over the front of it (front squats).  It looked great!

Hahha, yup, 2 stickies and free protein powder: I've made it to the big time! ahhahah.  Seriously, though, when I first started, I used to watch "The Unbelieveable" before training.  There's this one scene where Ronnie is blending his "Extreme Whey" shake.  I was 17 at the time and my whey budget was 1 scoop post workout (before this it used to be tuna post workout!), so when I'd watch this scene, I remember thinking that Ronnie was so lucky cause he didn't have to pay for his protein powder and maybe, hopefully, one day I would be lucky enough to not have to buy protein powder...

[flexingtonsteele]

haha man, well hopefully one day we'll be in the same boat, and someone will be buying my protein for me as well.

Well, the Species sponsorship is a new thing (just happened very recently) and Dave is still coming out with other products.  I've only tried Isolyze right now.  As for clothing, I wore a Species shirt while training legs yesterday.  Brand new black shirt and I got chalk all over the front of it (front squats).  It looked great!

Hahha, yup, 2 stickies and free protein powder: I've made it to the big time! ahhahah.  Seriously, though, when I first started, I used to watch "The Unbelieveable" before training.  There's this one scene where Ronnie is blending his "Extreme Whey" shake.  I was 17 at the time and my whey budget was 1 scoop post workout (before this it used to be tuna post workout!), so when I'd watch this scene, I remember thinking that Ronnie was so lucky cause he didn't have to pay for his protein powder and maybe, hopefully, one day I would be lucky enough to not have to buy protein powder...

[Meso_z]

Hello jrod,

About meal/activity timing.....do you think we should eat exactly the same hours every day or it doen't matter as long as it ~2 hours each meal?

[jrod]

Hello jrod,

About meal/activity timing.....do you think we should eat exactly the same hours every day or it doen't matter as long as it ~2 hours each meal?

I don't think it matters if you eat at exactly the same time/hours everyday. 

[jakeflips]

Hey jrod, I'm new to the boards, but I've seen your competition pics numerous times, and I am inspired by your condition.  I am planning to compete for the first time next summer, so I was wondering how many tries (competitions, years of practice, etc.) did it take to finally figure your body out to obtain this level of conditioning for competition?

-Jake

[jrod]

Hey jrod, I'm new to the boards, but I've seen your competition pics numerous times, and I am inspired by your condition.  I am planning to compete for the first time next summer, so I was wondering how many tries (competitions, years of practice, etc.) did it take to finally figure your body out to obtain this level of conditioning for competition?

-Jake

I started training in the summer of 2001 and I started competing in the spring of 2005.  I did two shows in 2005: the Chico Bodybuilding show (local show) and the NPC Contra Costa the following weekend.  I dieted about 2.5 weeks for these.  In 2006 I did the NPC Contra Costa and the Team Universe.  Finally in 2007 I did the Team Universe again.  I think that every single time I have competed I have come in with a better package (better conditioning).  Therefore, it took me till my second time dieting (if you would even call what I did the first time around a "diet") to achieve my 2006 level of conditioning; and it took 3 tries (years of competing/times dieting) to achieve my 2007 TU level of conditioning. 

[Tier]

jaaaaaaaaay rod , what have u done over the years for abs/core bro? anything at all?

thanks

[jrod]

jaaaaaaaaay rod , what have u done over the years for abs/core bro? anything at all?

thanks

I have always, and still, train abs as follows: once a week, about 5 sets, 6-8 reps, and  I choose from weighted crunches, cable crunches, weighted reverse crunches (on an incline), and sometimes (if its a good one) an abs machine (weighted, of course). 

[jrod]

These are the days in order and the number of sets I do per exercise.  I train 2 days on, 1 day off, and repeat in the order below.


BACK / BICEPS
3x Barbell Rows
2x Weighted Pull ups (parallel bar grips)
2x Hammer Strength close grip pull down
/
2x Barbell Curls
2x Seated Hammer Curls

CHEST / TRICEPS
2x Bench Press
2x Incline BB bench press
2x Incline DB bench press
/
2x Lying Triceps Extensions
2x Decline Close grip

TRAPS / ABS / FOREARMS / CALVES 2
3x Barbell Shrugs
/
3x DB Crunches
2x Reverse Crunches
/
3x BB Wrist Curls (off Bench)
2x DB Reverse Wrist Curls (off Bench)
/
2x Seated Calf Raises

QUADS / HAMSTRINGS
2x Squats
2x Front Squats
2x Bulgarian Split Squats
/
3x Glute Ham Raises
2x Seated Leg Curls

SHOULDERS / CALVES(1)
2x Barbell Shoulder Press
2x Dumbbell Shoulder Press
2x Side Laterals
/
3x Standing Calf Raises
2x Single Legged Standing Calf Raises

[The_Leafy_Bug]

     Hey jeff, I just wanted to thank you for helping me with my contest prep for my first show. Thanks to you i can honestly say i was one of the leaner guys at the show unforutnantly i didn't place where i wanted to. I want to say you really upped my standards for how lean a bodybuilder should be on stage and your diet was perfect for me but i learned that i should probably keep my calories higher and keep my carbs higher next year along with starting to eat properly earlier on instead of rushing it towards the end. You are a huge inspiration for me. Here is a picture from the show.
     My question for you now is how high do you keep calories in the offseason. It has only been 2 weeks after the show and i binged myself up 24 pounds in 3 days and now i look terrible. I can feel the fat packing on already and ive already switched my food out from oreos and ice cream to whole grains and other healthier foods. It is kind of hard for me to stop eating so much but im trying to slowly make a phase shift to a reasonable diet. What is the highest bf% you get up too in the offseason? Any other helpful offseason information for growing is appreciated.

[Honour]

Yeah tbh Leafy when i first saw your pics i thought that your conditioning reminded me of Jrod, once again great stuff .

[jrod]

The_Leafy_Bug,

     You are very welcome and thanks for the nice words. 

     In the off-season my calories on training days are at about 3,800 (if you haven't seen this, here's a link to my current diet: http://www.speciesnutrition.com/athletejrod2.html ). 

     As for your gaining weight in a few days, a lot of it could be water and carbs/glycogen getting back into your muscles.  Don't worry too much about what you weight; it can fluctuate a lot for several different reasons.  As for my BF%, I never measure, so I don't know, but I would say that I stay pretty lean (I have an off-season picture posted on here if you're curious).  I use the mirror as my guide, especially when dieting; I NEVER use calipers or any BF measuring device. 

     As for helpful growing information, I would say that you should have somewhat of an off-season eating/diet plan; don't just guess everyday.  It doesnt have to be as strict and perfect as when pre-contest, but a rough guide to follow will help.  You can take a look at mine (since you liked my pre-contest diet) and use it as a start (maybe adjust accordingly) and take what you like from it. 

Enjoy your off-season!

[BIG ACH]

I just want to give Jrod some mad props, for really taking the time time to answer all these questions thoroughly and with lots of details.

Now I have one question for you,  why did you decide NOW, after competing before and doing quite well to start adding healthier fats to your diet?  Especially when you stated before here that you don't take in any extra fats from almonds or oils,  I mean what made you decide to make the change when you were doing so well without them before?