Clomid: A word to the wise...

[DIVISION]

I recently ran out of bacteriostatic water for my HCG during my latest cycle and thought I'd supplement with Clomid instead.

Big mistake.

Unless you like estrogen rebound, do not do this mid-cycle.

The Clomid filled my nuts up full, but I also gained fat and had water retention worse than an off-season Lee Priest.

Another painful lesson learned.




DIV

[nder98]

I recently ran out of bacteriostatic water for my HCG during my latest cycle and thought I'd supplement with Clomid instead.

Big mistake.

Unless you like estrogen rebound, do not do this mid-cycle.

The Clomid filled my nuts up full, but I also gained fat and had water retention worse than an off-season Lee Priest.

Another painful lesson learned.




DIV

Can you run both together?   I heard hcg also makes u bloat too.

[BIG_O]

I'd say the implementation of the Clomid and the cessation of the HCG devoided the body of an LH impulse thus resulting in a negative feedback signal that threw the body out of wack thus resluting in over production of ACTH or Adrenocorticotropic Hormone. The Anterior Pituitary doesn't like playing musical chairs.

I have seen people make this mistake. (sorry bro. had to)

I guess we won't do this again huh?

Clomid invokes nightmares in me. This is one of those compounds that I never recommend for anything. I absolutely hate it.

Hopefully we get this water retention under control................

[DIVISION]

I'd say the implementation of the Clomid and the cessation of the HCG devoided the body of an LH impulse thus resulting in a negative feedback signal that threw the body out of wack thus resluting in over production of ACTH or Adrenocorticotropic Hormone. The Anterior Pituitary doesn't like playing musical chairs.

I have seen people make this mistake. (sorry bro. had to)

I guess we won't do this again huh?

Clomid invokes nightmares in me. This is one of those compounds that I never recommend for anything. I absolutely hate it.

Hopefully we get this water retention under control................

Part of this journey is making mistakes and I wanted to post to make sure others didn't do the same.

Your explanation fits my scenario perfectly...

I'd never depended on Clomid for anything, but had it on hand as an ancillary (just in case).

The sides are gone with cessation of the Clomid, though I'll never forget how fast it happened.

It was literally days before the sides showed up and the rate at which I gained fat was ridiculous.  It reminded me of what I'd imagine it would be like to stop a cycle without PCT.  Scary shit.



DIV

[DIVISION]

Can you run both together?   I heard hcg also makes u bloat too.

NO!

Do not run both together and I wouldn't recommend Clomid at all for PCT.

Run Nolvadex/HCG instead.

HCG doesn't make you bloat, provided you are using it right in the right dosage.  I stay between 250-500IU twice weekly on-cycle.

Never had problems with it.



DIV

[ZEEK]

Never never had a problem with clomid.

[DIVISION]

Never never had a problem with clomid.

You may not, it's not necessarily the case with everyone.

I'm just putting it out there.




DIV

[barnabas]

NO!

Do not run both together and I wouldn't recommend Clomid at all for PCT.

Run Nolvadex/HCG instead.

HCG doesn't make you bloat, provided you are using it right in the right dosage.  I stay between 250-500IU twice weekly on-cycle.

Never had problems with it.



DIV

So the best way to go is Nolvadex and HCG for pct.  Say you are doing a 16 week cycle with 1000 sust a week, with 500 deca and tren what would you say is the best way to implement the Nolvadex and HCG? 

And on another topic what would you say is the best way to keep you gains after your cycle is done.  Other than keep cals and protein high.  Along with dropping the volume of training but trying to keep as much or more intensity than when on.  This is one thing I haven't been able to do well at. 

[Arnold jr]

So the best way to go is Nolvadex and HCG for pct.  Say you are doing a 16 week cycle with 1000 sust a week, with 500 deca and tren what would you say is the best way to implement the Nolvadex and HCG? 

And on another topic what would you say is the best way to keep you gains after your cycle is done.  Other than keep cals and protein high.  Along with dropping the volume of training but trying to keep as much or more intensity than when on.  This is one thing I haven't been able to do well at. 

I'd run the HCG at 500iu/e5d while on cycle and run nolva for 4wks after the cycle, starting 2wks after your last pin of sust, I'd also drop the deca a wk or 2 before the end of the cycle...deca can linger around a long time. Something else you might consider is running prop the last 4wks of the cycle in place of the sust, so you would either start it at wk 13 or bump the whole cycle up 4wks in duration...I got to give props to L2H for this idea, and it's been a successful plan for me in my past 2 cycles. When you run the prop at the end you get to go straight into PCT, no waiting, which means a better chance of keeping your cycle gains IMO.

As far as your post-cycle training and diet, why haven't you been able to do this well? What's causing the problems?

[DIVISION]

My doc told me that Clomid is an ovulation drug.  How did people decide to start using it for PCT?

Clomid stimulates the testes to produce semen, though at a cost...

Many drugs have several uses, some of which are specific to bodybuilders and many docs aren't schooled in that area.

Ask an endocrinologist and he'd know.



DIV

[gtbro1]

   Clomid can  make you cum like Peter North. 

[Luv2Hurt]

Clomid is an ovulation drug.  Like many of the drugs we use they are intended for a different use.

http://infertility.about.com/cs/clomi1/a/Clomid.htm

Very little semen only about 5% is produced in the testes.  It cums from the prostate and the seminal vesicals.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/semenandsperm.htm

[freakfestMD]

Very little semen only about 5% is produced in the testes.  It cums from the prostate and the seminal vesicals.

Don't confuse semen with sperm (Oh, yeah, and also don't confuse it with mouthwash).  They are not the same thing. Sperm makes up a minute part of total semen volume, a volume that is not produced in the testicles themselves. 

[DIVISION]

Don't confuse semen with sperm (Oh, yeah, and also don't confuse it with mouthwash).  They are not the same thing. Sperm makes up a minute part of total semen volume, a volume that is not produced in the testicles themselves. 

Correct.

That's why some men assume that having a large volume corresponds to a large sperm count when the two have nothing to do with each other.


DIV

[barnabas]

I'd run the HCG at 500iu/e5d while on cycle and run nolva for 4wks after the cycle, starting 2wks after your last pin of sust, I'd also drop the deca a wk or 2 before the end of the cycle...deca can linger around a long time. Something else you might consider is running prop the last 4wks of the cycle in place of the sust, so you would either start it at wk 13 or bump the whole cycle up 4wks in duration...I got to give props to L2H for this idea, and it's been a successful plan for me in my past 2 cycles. When you run the prop at the end you get to go straight into PCT, no waiting, which means a better chance of keeping your cycle gains IMO.

As far as your post-cycle training and diet, why haven't you been able to do this well? What's causing the problems?

I really wish I knew what was causing the problems because you bust your balls for 16 weeks or whatever and then watch yourself slowly digress.  I'm going to try your suggestion above for my next cycle.  I seems like it would work well.  Do you think taking any supps other than creatine, glutamine, protein and BCAA's post cycle is necessary.  I have been using Gaspari's Super Pump 250 preworkout and I like it alot.  I don't feel that more is better.  Meaning that I'm off cycle now so I should take every test booster, NO2, and every other supp out there.  I think it's kind of overkill.  I have been eating pretty clean keeping my cals around 4,500 to 5,000 and my protein around 450 grams a day post cycle.  So I don't know what the deal is.  Hopefully your suggestion will help.

[DIVISION]

I really wish I knew what was causing the problems because you bust your balls for 16 weeks or whatever and then watch yourself slowly digress.  I'm going to try your suggestion above for my next cycle.  I seems like it would work well.  Do you think taking any supps other than creatine, glutamine, protein and BCAA's post cycle is necessary.  I have been using Gaspari's Super Pump 250 preworkout and I like it alot.  I don't feel that more is better.  Meaning that I'm off cycle now so I should take every test booster, NO2, and every other supp out there.  I think it's kind of overkill.  I have been eating pretty clean keeping my cals around 4,500 to 5,000 and my protein around 450 grams a day post cycle.  So I don't know what the deal is.  Hopefully your suggestion will help.

When you come off you're going to keep some of your gains, but not everything.  You will keep some of your size but you will probably lose a decent amount of strength.  The idea is to only use as much AAS as you need during cycle so when you come off it isn't such a shock to your body, thereby allowing you to keep more gains longterm.  Sure you might be using 1.5G Test ew for a cycle and make huge gains, but when you come off your body is going to take alot of that back regardless of what precautions you take.

PCT and diet are preventative measures, but they won't prevent your body from wanting homeostasis.

Why do you think these bodybuilders stay on for years at a time?

They don't cycle, they are on permanent HRT.



DIV

[Arnold jr]

When you come off you're going to keep some of your gains, but not everything.  You will keep some of your size but you will probably lose a decent amount of strength.  The idea is to only use as much AAS as you need during cycle so when you come off it isn't such a shock to your body, thereby allowing you to keep more gains longterm.  Sure you might be using 1.5G Test ew for a cycle and make huge gains, but when you come off your body is going to take alot of that back regardless of what precautions you take.

PCT and diet are preventative measures, but they won't prevent your body from wanting homeostasis.

Why do you think these bodybuilders stay on for years at a time?

They don't cycle, they are on permanent HRT.



DIV

Good points.

[Wombat]

I personally like the streamers and the dreams/nightmares i get from clomid but its not for everyone...

[DIVISION]

I personally like the streamers and the dreams/nightmares i get from clomid but its not for everyone...

Now that I've been reminded of why I don't like Clomid, I have a stash of I need to get rid off.

Good thing I never actually needed it.




DIV

[!@#$%]

Llewellyn is recommending clomid, nolvedex and hcg, in Anabolics 2006. Also most articles I've read on PCT recommend HCG everyday not every 5 days, like is commonly recommended on this board. Anabolics 2006 is new and the pct section look reasonably researched.

[DIVISION]

Llewellyn is recommending clomid, nolvedex and hcg, in Anabolics 2006. Also most articles I've read on PCT recommend HCG everyday not every 5 days, like is commonly recommended on this board. Anabolics 2006 is new and the pct section look reasonably researched.

There is no golden rule.

I use HCG 200-500 IU E4D during my cycle.

That's me...

What you choose to do is on you.

Eventually you will learn that genetics determine how each person responds to certain drugs and so there is no one failproof method.

There are guidelines, though.

Llewellyn is good with the research aspect of AAS/ancillaries, but he's not a lifter and doesn't have the first hand experience that many other people do.

Where do you think many of his recommendations come from?

Pro and amateur bodybuilders who he knows...

So much of what he recommends as far as cycles and PCT is on the advice of other people and what works for them.

Some of it is clincial research, but much of it is from observation of others.

Whether you take my opinion or his, ultimately, it's your decision what you do...



DIV

[LASTREP72]

I recently ran out of bacteriostatic water for my HCG during my latest cycle and thought I'd supplement with Clomid instead.

Big mistake.

Unless you like estrogen rebound, do not do this mid-cycle.

The Clomid filled my nuts up full, but I also gained fat and had water retention worse than an off-season Lee Priest.

Another painful lesson learned.




DIV

My doc gave me clomid a while back for low sperm count - the shit worked but I had a shit load of bad quality sperm   It was the first thing I ever took related to gear - didn't notice anything as for as strength wise from this shit - but I did get the bad dreams. I really think ephedra fucked up my sperm count - I was hooked on that shit for a while taking like quadruple the reccomended dose and sometimes had a hard time taking a piss - that could've been good on the ol sac

[DIVISION]

My doc gave me clomid a while back for low sperm count - the shit worked but I had a shit load of bad quality sperm   It was the first thing I ever took related to gear - didn't notice anything as for as strength wise from this shit - but I did get the bad dreams. I really think ephedra fucked up my sperm count - I was hooked on that shit for a while taking like quadruple the reccomended dose and sometimes had a hard time taking a piss - that could've been good on the ol sac

Ephedrine doesn't not affect sperm count nor the quality of semen, rather it constricts the smooth muscle of the bladder/prostate and makes urination somewhat slow and difficult.

It's something I've gotten used to from taking Ephedrine, but by no means does it do any harm.

Just a side.



DIV

[LASTREP72]

Ephedrine doesn't not affect sperm count nor the quality of semen, rather it constricts the smooth muscle of the bladder/prostate and makes urination somewhat slow and difficult.

It's something I've gotten used to from taking Ephedrine, but by no means does it do any harm.

Just a side.



DIV

Hey well that's accually good to know, maybe I'll start back on an ECA stack this time with controlled amounts. But that shit doesn't fuck-up the prostate does it? Did you notice any problems with losing muscle mass while on the ECA - I ripped off 50-60 lbs and allot of muscle strength - but I think the muscle loss was due to not taking in enough carbs and doing too much cardio (did like 3hrs a day).

[DIVISION]

Hey well that's accually good to know, maybe I'll start back on an ECA stack this time with controlled amounts. But that shit doesn't f**k-up the prostate does it? Did you notice any problems with losing muscle mass while on the ECA - I ripped off 50-60 lbs and allot of muscle strength - but I think the muscle loss was due to not taking in enough carbs and doing too much cardio (did like 3hrs a day).

If you're doing three hours of cardio a day, you will have a hard time making gains, much less keeping your strength.

Something has to give.

You can alternate days when you do more or less, but doing that much cardio will kill the anabolic environment.

Ephedine does not damage the prostate.

It just has that transitory effect of making urination slow and long.

It's just a side.


DIV