silymarin for liver protection

[barnabas]

Has anyone used silymarin for liver protection while on?  It was suggested to me to use it 70mg 2x a day.  I'm going to use anadrol and plus the 500+ grams of protein I'll be taking, I know will tax my liver.  I know about milk thistle but I obviously want what will work the best to protect my liver.  I don't want to just get as big as possible at any cost. 

[DIVISION]

Has anyone used silymarin for liver protection while on?  It was suggested to me to use it 70mg 2x a day.  I'm going to use anadrol and plus the 500+ grams of protein I'll be taking, I know will tax my liver.  I know about milk thistle but I obviously want what will work the best to protect my liver.  I don't want to just get as big as possible at any cost. 

I know nothing about silymarin for liver protection.

Calcium D-Glucarate has been shown to help with elevated liver values due to 17AA orals....and it's found in several liver supplements.

Then you have milk thistle.

The protein is filtered out via the kidneys, not the liver.

I hope you're not running a cycle of Anadrol alone.

That's a mistake....



DIV

[barnabas]

I know nothing about silymarin for liver protection.

Calcium D-Glucarate has been shown to help with elevated liver values due to 17AA orals....and it's found in several liver supplements.

Then you have milk thistle.

The protein is filtered out via the kidneys, not the liver.

I hope you're not running a cycle of Anadrol alone.

That's a mistake....



DIV

No, I'm not running it alone.  I'm just going to use it for the first four or five weeks.  Your right about protein through the kidneys, my mistake.  Do you think 100mg of anadrol is too much if only done for 4 weeks or should I just use 50?  This will be the first time using anadrol.  I have always used dbols in the past.

[DIVISION]

No, I'm not running it alone.  I'm just going to use it for the first four or five weeks.  Your right about protein through the kidneys, my mistake.  Do you think 100mg of anadrol is too much if only done for 4 weeks or should I just use 50?  This will be the first time using anadrol.  I have always used dbols in the past.

50MG Anadrol ed is enough.




DIV

[Luv2Hurt]

I know nothing about silymarin for liver protection.


Then you have milk thistle.




DIV

Silymarin IS milk thistle. 

[DIVISION]

Silymarin IS milk thistle. 

That's what he gets for asking me about herbs....



DIV

[Luv2Hurt]

That's what he gets for asking me about herbs....



DIV

yeah the only reason I knew was marble did a huge post before on how milk thistle will inhibit gains while on the juice and he used its biochemical name silymarin.

[DIVISION]

yeah the only reason I knew was marble did a huge post before on how milk thistle will inhibit gains while on the juice and he used its biochemical name silymarin.

You touch upon a bigger topic.

In this game, it's almost a process of check and balances.

If you eliminate all estrogen via an anti-aromatase, you are hurting some of your body's natural systems that need at least a small amount of estrogen to maintain function (cardiovascular, skin, nails).

If you have too high an estrogen level, you get the unwanted sides such as water retention, fat gain, mood irregularities.

If you use Milk Thistle (for liver protection), a percentage of your potential gains may be inhibited.

If you don't use Milk Thistle or some other liver aid, you may open yourself up to cholestatic hepatoxicity cumulative due to 17AA orals...

Everything is such a fine line.....





DIV

[Wombat]

No, I'm not running it alone.  I'm just going to use it for the first four or five weeks.  Your right about protein through the kidneys, my mistake.  Do you think 100mg of anadrol is too much if only done for 4 weeks or should I just use 50?  This will be the first time using anadrol.  I have always used dbols in the past.

I depends on what kind of anadrol it is...They certainly aren't created equal...If your gonna do it for 4 weeks, i may suggest you try this...If after 10 days you aren't feeling your anadrol, then its either really under dosed or bunk altogether...

week 1---50mg a day
week 2---50mg a day
week 3---50mg first day then 100mg second day then repeat
week 4---OFF
week 5---100mg a day



i got this from a guy many years ago and it worked real well when stacking with test...It allows you to use 100mgs a day for your 4 or 5 weeks and put less stress on your liver then if you just used it straight thru...

[freakfestMD]

Has anyone used silymarin for liver protection while on?  It was suggested to me to use it 70mg 2x a day.  I'm going to use anadrol and plus the 500+ grams of protein I'll be taking, I know will tax my liver.  I know about milk thistle but I obviously want what will work the best to protect my liver.  I don't want to just get as big as possible at any cost. 

Here is a reiteration of a previous discussion on milk thistle.  Hope you find it interesting:



there's persistant bullshit circulating stating that silymarin is bad to take along with orals because it increases the rate at which the liver metabolises the drug.  this is false.  either no effect or the opposite has been found with both alcohol and aspirin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3398694&dopt=Abstract

in vitro evidence suggests that silymarin actually inhibits drug metabolism, causing steroids to circulate in the body longer.  most steroid breakdown is done by the cyp3a4 enzyme, which is significantly(dose dependant, but at least a 65% slower rate) inhibited by silymarin:

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/11/1270

so why have users reported decreased steroid effects when using silymarin when the opposite should be true?

i found this study which has fascinating consequences:

http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/9/1399

a choice excerpt:

"SB decreased androgen-stimulated growth and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels in LNCaP cells (6). In this study, we further evaluated the effects of SM and SB on androgen action. We found that SM and SB down-regulate several androgen-regulated genes, including PSA, human glandular kallikrein (hK2) and an immunophilin, FKBP51, mainly by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR. More interestingly, we show that SM and SB can inhibit nuclear localization of the AR. Thus this report provides a novel mechanism by which SM and SB inhibit function of the AR."

or, in plain(er) english, when an androgen comes to a cell it passes through the cell membrane and binds to an androgen receptor in the cytoplasm.  upon binding, the receptor/androgen bundle float to the nucleus to tell which tell the cell to alter its behaviour, i.e. in this case, "synthesize more protein and grow larger".  different androgens probably relay different messages, which is why particular stacks seem to be more effective than others, despite all binding to the same receptor.

silymarin inhibits this either by preventing androgen/receptor bundles from ever reaching the nucleus, or by allowing the bundle to drift out of the nucleus easily once there.

i.e. all androgens, oral or injectable, will not work nearly as well.  avoid silymarin, and please spread the word.  feel free to repost this anywhere with proper acknowledgements to both marble and getbig.