The myth of the "cutting drugs"...discuss

[O]

A while back, some friends of mine did an interesting study.  We would always here about how you need to bulk with EQ/DECA/A-Bombs/ ect, and cut with Winny/Tren/prop/var....blah blah blah....words words words....


So one day some guy comes out of the woodwork and kicks everyones ass at a local show.  He is from nowhere, CA, and ices like the best in the area.

He's actually not that bright, and bales hay on a farm in Northern Cali....He is not educated, but is super friendly, so we hit him up and took him out for dinner that night since he didn't know anyone in town.

Guy was 509, came in at 218.  Dry.

That's big for an amatuer.  It's actually huge.  The guy had no water, so he prob around 228 ripped.  The guys waist was like 27 inches.  He was phenomenal. 

Come to find out, he didn't know a steroid from a hemorrhoid.  He was a serious bumpkin, with not a stitch of science in his head.  So we ask him about his contest prep we are expecting to hear "Yeah bro, Winny/Tren/  Blah blah blah.....

He says, "Well, I could only get Anadrol, Testosterone Cypionate, and Deca Durabolin.  I just did it for 12 weeks.  I only had two jars of the Anadrol so I ran it close to the show."

We almost fell out of out chairs at TGIF's,,,,,

Guy ran bulking shit...but watched his diet including salt, and kept nolvadex on to watch the water. 

The best part.........

He couldn't get a diuretic so he cut all his fluid intake like a day and half out....LOL, the guy was like ready to keel over the whole time.  But he had more veins in his stomach than the others guys did in their arms....

Anyway, I found more examples of that as I entered/attended more shows...Lots of guys don't know shit about gear....Don't know "cutting" from "bulking" yet they control what they look like through diet/cardio.  I think we need to stop relying on gear to "cut" or "bulk" and focus on training and food.

Now don't get me wrong, I know that some gear is better than others for losing/gaining weight....but they are not miracle pills......So lets kick off the thread without having to state that.

[krazee]

I got a reality check from another smart mod on this board, not saying no names, but Jr. Oak himself.  Anyways my point that tried to prove in another thread, is that more people take certain AAS at certain times in there cycle, ie. deca for bulking and Winny for cutting. I found out through this mods experience that it really comes down to the diet and training. If you watch your intake of certain fats, sodium and such there should be no need for bloating. Also, what I really took from the conversation from said mod is that training intensity can make or break your condition. I have followed this mods advice and taken deca/sust/d-bols...this time around (seeing as I've done this cycle before) I watched my diet more closely this time and my bloating was no were close to the last time I did this same stack. My gains will be more permanent this time IMO.....by the way thanks Arnie. So in closing, people should try not to take all advice as flaming and read more into it and try to listen to people that might actually be more knowledgable in a subject you thought you knew a lot about. No O that is not a stab at you, it's just funny that the people you think don't know spit about a topic actually open your eyes to something new. Funny how the world of BB works.

[MarkyM]

I think we need to stop relying on gear to "cut" or "bulk" and focus on training and food.

BUMP that!

There is no magic AAS to give you mass or cut without proper training, food and rest. When these 3 things are set up as they must be than AAS come into consideration. 

[Luv2Hurt]

Yep I have been saying it all along, training which includes aerobics and diet is more important than the AAS you take by a mile.

I have seen many fat asses taking winny and tren thinking that is the magic pill that it will make them lean.  Our society as a whole is soooo lazy everyone just wants to just pop a pill or take a shot to get big and ripped and it ain't gonna happen.  What will make it happen is genetics, consistant training and diet.

[MarkyM]

I have seen many fat asses taking winny and tren thinking that is the magic pill that it will make them lean.

Secret key for this kind a peeps is magic pill called DNP. LOL 

[Overload]

You are what you eat...

The leanest i have ever been was when i was running test/deca/winny and watched my diet closely. i was only doing cardio 3 times a week for about 45 minutes.

i agree that winny/tren really help with fat loss but you must have your diet in check for it to be effective.

[DIVISION]

A while back, some friends of mine did an interesting study.  We would always here about how you need to bulk with EQ/DECA/A-Bombs/ ect, and cut with Winny/Tren/prop/var....blah blah blah....words words words....


So one day some guy comes out of the woodwork and kicks everyones ass at a local show.  He is from nowhere, CA, and ices like the best in the area.

He's actually not that bright, and bales hay on a farm in Northern Cali....He is not educated, but is super friendly, so we hit him up and took him out for dinner that night since he didn't know anyone in town.

Guy was 509, came in at 218.  Dry.

That's big for an amatuer.  It's actually huge.  The guy had no water, so he prob around 228 ripped.  The guys waist was like 27 inches.  He was phenomenal. 

Come to find out, he didn't know a steroid from a hemorrhoid.  He was a serious bumpkin, with not a stitch of science in his head.  So we ask him about his contest prep we are expecting to hear "Yeah bro, Winny/Tren/  Blah blah blah.....

He says, "Well, I could only get Anadrol, Testosterone Cypionate, and Deca Durabolin.  I just did it for 12 weeks.  I only had two jars of the Anadrol so I ran it close to the show."

We almost fell out of out chairs at TGIF's,,,,,

Guy ran bulking shit...but watched his diet including salt, and kept nolvadex on to watch the water. 

The best part.........

He couldn't get a diuretic so he cut all his fluid intake like a day and half out....LOL, the guy was like ready to keel over the whole time.  But he had more veins in his stomach than the others guys did in their arms....

Anyway, I found more examples of that as I entered/attended more shows...Lots of guys don't know shit about gear....Don't know "cutting" from "bulking" yet they control what they look like through diet/cardio.  I think we need to stop relying on gear to "cut" or "bulk" and focus on training and food.

Now don't get me wrong, I know that some gear is better than others for losing/gaining weight....but they are not miracle pills......So lets kick off the thread without having to state that.

I agree wholeheartedly...

I am a powerlifter but I train bodybuilders and build cycles for them and it's amazing how much misinformation there is out there regarding AAS and drugs.

Cutting is mainly diet.

After the desired BF% has been reached, one can use drugs to strip down even more fat pre-contest (T3, DNP, Clen).

Everyone wants a quick fix in regard to fat loss, but really, it's much better for the body to shed fat through natural means (diet) than drugs.

The drugs are mainly for those upper level competitors that need to be down that low in BF to stay at the threshold others are at.

Most people on this forum don't need the drugs....

Yes, I'm speaking to you...

Put down the burger and fries and eat clean.

That is the first step.



DIV

[incognegro]

Wow that is true I was on Eq, and prop and eating and training like shit, and now that i'm off I am eating very clean and training more intensly and i've never felt better? diet?training is very key

[blondmusclhunk]

I think we should be careful when we say "losing" "gaining" weight.  some newbies are going to think that losing weight is great and will not know the difference between losing fat and gaining muscle.

[kreator]

So would it be OK for a guy(220lbs, 6' 1/2'', BF around 13%), while on Test E for 12 weeks, in order to gain mass with as less water retention and fat storage as possible, to be on a diet that consisted of:

400 g protein, 300g carbs, 60-70g fats(flaxseed oil, olive oil....)

enlighten me.......


thanks

[DIVISION]

So would it be OK for a guy(220lbs, 6' 1/2'', BF around 13%), while on Test E for 12 weeks, in order to gain mass with as less water retention and fat storage as possible, to be on a diet that consisted of:

400 g protein, 300g carbs, 60-70g fats(flaxseed oil, olive oil....)

enlighten me.......

What bodytype are you?

Endomorph, Ectomorph, Mesomorph?




DIV

[Rimbaud]

So would it be OK for a guy(220lbs, 6' 1/2'', BF around 13%), while on Test E for 12 weeks, in order to gain mass with as less water retention and fat storage as possible, to be on a diet that consisted of:

400 g protein, 300g carbs, 60-70g fats(flaxseed oil, olive oil....)

enlighten me.......


thanks

Is this the first diet you've ever tried or been on? I'm just curious because you really need to figure out what works for you & be willing to experiment (also don't forget what DIV said..what body type are you?). For example: This year I started eating less protein & more fats & to be honest it's working out pretty good & I feel pretty good.

[Arnold jr]

For example: This year I started eating less protein & more fats & to be honest it's working out pretty good & I feel pretty good.

Yes! Everything is different for everyone, including carb/protein/fat ratios that should be consumed. I've also upped my fat intake considerably this year and I am very pleased so far...protein has stayed relatively the same but I'm finding I need far less carb intake, which is great because I tend to be very carb sensitive.

[kreator]

as far as I'm concerned, endomorph,

last year my macronutrient intake was something like this:

300-350g protein,500-600g carbs(oats, rice),healthy fats:insignificant amount

I didn't juice and I gained approx. 23lbs of mass in the span of 3 months(i got lots of compliments on my size) but my abdominal area was well covered in fat, so that is the reason why I want to make some changes in my diet this year,


thanks

[krazee]

as far as I'm concerned, endomorph,

last year my macronutrient intake was something like this:

300-350g protein,500-600g carbs(oats, rice),healthy fats:insignificant amount

I didn't juice and I gained approx. 23lbs of mass in the span of 3 months(i got lots of compliments on my size) but my abdominal area was well covered in fat, so that is the reason why I want to make some changes in my diet this year,


thanks

How did you gain that kinda size in such a short time?

[kreator]

How did you gain that kinda size in such a short time?

My body responded quite well to higher carb intake(before that i'd always focused only on protein consumption and kinda neglected carbs so my bodyweight was stagnant),I went from 210 to 235 lbs, but as i quoted before it wasn't nowhere near sheer muscle mass.......

[krazee]

I hear ya, but now you wanna lose the softness, I suppose. As I myself usually gain a little of the marshmellow effect in the winter, plus added insulation for the cold Canada winters is a bonus.

[Luv2Hurt]

I hear ya, but now you wanna lose the softness, I suppose. As I myself usually gain a little of the marshmellow effect in the winter, plus added insulation for the cold Canada winters is a bonus.

Thats funny you mention that extra fat in the winter keeping you warm.....it does.  The last two years I have kept my BF down from the past and have noticed Im much colder in the house with the same setting on the thermostat, had to buy an extra blanket for the bed.  Am colder in general now even going outside I bundle up lots more lately.  Can see why eskimos stay fat.

[krazee]

Thats funny you mention that extra fat in the winter keeping you warm.....it does.  The last two years I have kept my BF down from the past and have noticed Im much colder in the house with the same setting on the thermostat, had to buy an extra blanket for the bed.  Am colder in general now even going outside I bundle up lots more lately.  Can see why eskimos stay fat.

I actually enjoy holding an extra 15-25 lbs of extra weight during the winter. On top of that I don't really have to be so strict at what I eat, cheese cakes, ice cream sundaes...it doesn't matter I eat it. Not to mention I have no one to show off in the winter for. My wife knows what I look like with my clothes off, so who cares if I'm a little more plump, in the summer I diet down and get ripped. So I say hooray for puffiness in the winter.

[D-bol]

Its all about genes, training and diet. Gear is excellent when coupled w/ those three. Otherwise, for a couch potato, living on cokes and fries gear is useless - only extra strain on organs.

[Rimbaud]

  Bump 

[The_Schofeild_Kid]

good thread. nothing else to add (i'm useless 

[2ND COMING]

Bump 

lol, bored?

[Rimbaud]

lol, bored?

Nah...just tired of looking for this thread everytime someone posts a "cutting" cycle thread.

[Captain Equipoise]

All I'm gonna say is some of us love our food.. this is why I've never competed even though I've been aproached by friends, other competitors and pro's to compete and get on stage.. I look at it this way, I would rather look GREAT eating the way I do (everything in sight!) then look incredible but starving myself and living in misery. Hell when I'm on I rely on clen/eca/t3/nolva  and to be honest , I don't give a rat's ass, I'll never starve myself or deprive myself of something like a lasagna or mashed potatoes with corn and chicken breast.. And as far as cutting drugs, there's no arguement that there are drugs that naturally make you more ripped and leaner, while others make you bulkier and thicker.. yes you can sort of get around it by eating different (ie. eating clean while taking dbol and adrol) but why reinvent the wheel? things are a certain way for a reason.