Nolvadex or Arimidex while on cycle of Sustanon 250

[wall70]

  Its been said by multiple sources that taking an anti-estrogen (be it a SERM like Nolvadex or anit-aromatse like Arimidex) while on a cycle of an aromatizing steroid  would compromise the   gains that one would make on the cycle. In other words, a little estrogen (along with the water and fat retention that it brings) is actually beneficial when you're bulking.

  I'm scared to death of gyno and I would take nolvadex or arimidex the entire length of a 12 week cycle just to greatly reduce my chances of getting gyno. However my mentor believes in the school of thought that says that taking any kind of anti-estrogen is detrimental to gains.
 
Here's my idea. Take nolvadex which is a SERM mainly affecting the cells in the breast tissue from being affected by estrogen. That way I'm only blocking the effects of estrogen in the breast area thereby hopefully avoiding gyno (or greatly reducing my chances of getting it) while letting estrogen works it magic on the rest of my body to aid in gains.

What do you guys think. I would greatly appreciate any feedback and/or opinions.

[Arnold jr]

I think the theory is bull-shit, and it is endorsed by uneducated idiots. Your "mentor" may very well be one big massive dude, but this doesn't equate to knowing the ins-&-outs of proper cycling.

Lets say it does hinder gains, if it does, we're talking about a minuscule amount on the "gains" chart...if such a chart existed. So ask your self this, would you rather have the .000001% of the gains that this may help you keep by leaving nolva or an AI out? Or would you rather run a proper cycle, one that doesn't leave you feeling like an over-sized marshmellow, and one that doesn't leave you with a set of perky lushes breast?

[Jr. Yates]

I think the theory is bull-shit, and it is endorsed by uneducated idiots. Your "mentor" may very well be one big massive dude, but this doesn't equate to knowing the ins-&-outs of proper cycling.

Lets say it does hinder gains, if it does, we're talking about a minuscule amount on the "gains" chart...if such a chart existed. So ask your self this, would you rather have the .000001% of the gains that this may help you keep by leaving nolva or an AI out? Or would you rather run a proper cycle, one that doesn't leave you feeling like an over-sized marshmellow, and one that doesn't leave you with a set of perky lushes breast?

hmmm im going to need to use a lifeline on that one Aj.

[wall70]

Point well taken Arnold Jr. Just to clear some points up my mentor does believe in proper pct of course he only deviates on anti-estrogens when it comes to taking them on cycle.

One more thing, nolvadex would be the common sense drug to take right? Its fairly cheap, and that is important because i would be taking it over the duration of an entire 12 week cycle. But don't get me wrong I don't wanna sound like some cheap bastard. Its just that we all know that arimidex can get pretty pricey.

[Luv2Hurt]

I feel you will be fine taking nolva during the cycle, this will affect gains some by reducing IGF-1 release.  But it will not be too bad if you take low dose nolva 10mg ED should do the trick.

AI's are great also and would say if trying to get cut up for a show or whatever they are the way to go, I personally take an AI at lower than recomended doses .5mg letro ED for my cycles and have 0 problems with E.  A-dex and letro are strong drugs.  Nolva always for PCT.

[DIVISION]

  Its been said by multiple sources that taking an anti-estrogen (be it a SERM like Nolvadex or anit-aromatse like Arimidex) while on a cycle of an aromatizing steroid  would compromise the   gains that one would make on the cycle. In other words, a little estrogen (along with the water and fat retention that it brings) is actually beneficial when you're bulking.

  I'm scared to death of gyno and I would take nolvadex or arimidex the entire length of a 12 week cycle just to greatly reduce my chances of getting gyno. However my mentor believes in the school of thought that says that taking any kind of anti-estrogen is detrimental to gains.
 
Here's my idea. Take nolvadex which is a SERM mainly affecting the cells in the breast tissue from being affected by estrogen. That way I'm only blocking the effects of estrogen in the breast area thereby hopefully avoiding gyno (or greatly reducing my chances of getting it) while letting estrogen works it magic on the rest of my body to aid in gains.

What do you guys think. I would greatly appreciate any feedback and/or opinions.

If the goal is gains at any price, then by all means, drop the anti-estrogens and anti-aromatases...

You might notice some uncomfortable sides like water retention, fat gain, gyno and hypertension, but that is the price you may have to pay for the decision.

If quality of life is important to you, consider using Nolvadex at least, if not Arimidex in low doses. 

Compromise on the dosage, perhaps 10MG Nolvadex or .5MG Arimidex, instead of the usual amounts.

Think shades of gray instead of black and white when it comes to AAS protocol.

I'm sure your mentor has your best interests in mind, however, he might not be as educated and experienced as he'd like to think he is.

The only way you'll truly know how your body responds to AAS without anti-estrogens is to try it (at your risk).

Good luck in whatever you choose.



DIV

[littlechris]

it also depends on what you will be taking and at what dosage.  if your taking anadrol, you absolutely need nolvadex.  if you ae taking sostenon, you may need nolvadex as the longer acting esters continue to raise your test levels over time. you are better with enanthate or cypionate every 7 days .  i would only take sostenon when starting a cycle to get a kick from the propionate but really isnt necessary. other gear varies. i can take all the test enanthate  i want and not get gyno.  everyone is different.  besides, who wants gyno? nobody. if you start to feel your nipples itching, its time to go on an anti estrogen.  also keep in mind that arimedex may dry you the fuck out.  your body needs some estrogen. get to know your body and how it responds, but nolvadex doesnt hurt and is actually beneficial in regards to ones cholesterol readings.

-LC

[wall70]

Thank you everybody for all the advice and feedback.

I dont start my cycle for another three weeks but here's my prospective course of action: Start out with 10 mg ed of nolvadex and have arimidex on hand just in case. By the way I'm only starting out with 250 mg of Sustenon 250 a week (thats one shot a week). I know thats really conservative but its my first cycle and AAS is definitley not something where you wanna take risks. If however my mentor and I are not satisfied with the gains I make in the first month on that we will up the dosage. Originally I had wanted to stack with D-bol at 25 mg ed but he said that that was a bit too ambitious.

On a related topic: are the research forms of arimidex viable. You know the places where you buy chemicals for research purposes only. They're all in liquid form and I was just wondering if in general they are the real deal.

[littlechris]

hey,

250 mg is not alot.  you would be better off at 500 mg per week along with d-bol at 20 mg per day.  stay on the test for 16 weeks, and do the d-bol the first 6 weeks.  after 16 weeks, go down to 250 mgs a week and do 1000 iu of hgh every 4 days.  stay on the test for 6 weeks at 250mg a week, then incorporate dboll again for 6 weeks, and go back up to 5000 mg a week again. repeat. repeat, repeat, etc.

-lc

[DIVISION]

if you ae taking sostenon, you may need nolvadex as the longer acting esters continue to raise your test levels over time. you are better with enanthate or cypionate every 7 days .  i would only take sostenon when starting a cycle to get a kick from the propionate but really isnt necessary. other gear varies.

Sustanon is tailored specifically for longer cycles because it has four esters, that is the beauty of the product.

When you stick to one ester like Cypionate or Enanthate, your test levels drop off and fluctuate too much, whereas with Sustanon, you always have a steady concentration of Test in your body.

You don't know much about AAS in general, do you?

Sustanon was designed for HRT, which makes it perfect for cycles.




DIV

[Luv2Hurt]

Sustanon is tailored specifically for longer cycles because it has four esters, that is the beauty of the product.

When you stick to one ester like Cypionate or Enanthate, your test levels drop off and fluctuate too much, whereas with Sustanon, you always have a steady concentration of Test in your body.

You don't know much about AAS in general, do you?

Sustanon was designed for HRT, which makes it perfect for cycles.




DIV

DIVISIONATOR,

That was the idea when they came up with sust.  But in actuality it is very inconsistent, the esters are realeasing at different times and unless you take sust EOD the levels will fall off fast.  Some of the long ester stuff will still be there but the short stuff is gone in a day or 2, so then theres a lot less test present than you might expect.  See the idea is to get away from the EOD dosing schedule to maintain levels (at least for me).  if I'm gonna shoot test EOD I would rather use prop.

[DIVISION]

DIVISIONATOR,

That was the idea when they came up with sust.  But in actuality it is very inconsistent, the esters are realeasing at different times and unless you take sust EOD the levels will fall off fast.  Some of the long ester stuff will still be there but the short stuff is gone in a day or 2, so then theres a lot less test present than you might expect.  See the idea is to get away from the EOD dosing schedule to maintain levels (at least for me).  if I'm gonna shoot test EOD I would rather use prop.

Only 30MG of the 250MG total is Test Prop which is the fast acting ester.  The rest of it is released at a considerably slower rate, so EOD dosing is not such an issue, unless the drop-off is something you actually feel and it effects you.

The only way I'd use Test Prop for a longer cycle is for the last several weeks when I'm trying to get the Sustanon completely out of my system and by that point I'd be pinning Test Prop on an everyday basis.

I'm not going to shoot Test Prop every day for eighteen weeks, though, when I can get away with shooting Sustanon twice or three times per week.




DIV