Author Topic: effect steriods has on triglycerides  (Read 1941 times)

musclestang

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effect steriods has on triglycerides
« on: November 27, 2006, 06:27:10 PM »
a friend of mine just got some blood work done and his triglycerides were 700 his overall cholesterol was 214 which is a little high but nothing crazy.  he has been off cycle now for 2 months, he thinks its due to the steroids but i think its due to his diet.  i tried to find some info on the effect of test on triglicerides but i could only find info on its effect on total cholesterol.  so i was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this for me I'll post his last cycle below, BTW for those who don't know normal levels are suppose to be around 100, he's 24 yrs old 5'10 225lbs

cycle
1-16 sust 750mg
1-8 d-bol 50mg
1-16 deca 500mg
16-24 parabolan 300mg
16-24 eq 400mg
16-24 prop 800mg
16-24 winni 50mg
24-28 pct nolva 40mg

weldr911

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 10:05:30 PM »
Hey bro....I just recently had my blood work done because I am getting ready to start another cycle and wanted to make sure everything is where it should be and that things looked ok for my body to accept the abuse I'm about to give it.
The one thing that I was concerned with was my liver values (because of all the D-bol I had taken on my last cycle).
When my blood work came back I was more than alitte shocked. My liver value was perfect. I didn't leave my doctor in the dark, I told him that I had been taking AAS and what I was looking for in my blood work.
He informed me that my triglyceride level was thru the roof. It's not suppose to be above 150 but it's at 598. He started me on some meds and told me that right now wouldn't be a very wise idea to start another cycle. I told him that I felt fine, that I didn't feel like anything was wrong. He told me that I WOULDN'T feel any different, but that I was a walking heart attack- that I wouldn't see it coming- that it would hit me like a theif in the dark.
He also informed me that my Testosterone level, which at my age is suppose to be around 800-900, is at 238. My total cholesterol level was fine though.
So....... I have to wait alittle longer before I can start my cycle- until things get alittle more on track.
My doctor couldn't say for sure if it was the AAS that has my triglycerides so out of whack-(but stress was a factor) but felt that they were the cause of my tset levels being so low.
I eat pretty clean and live a good life- pumping iron, cardio. I may just be one of the unlucky ones.
BTW, I'm 36   5'11   228pds.  Been off my last long enough that it was time for my next one.

I know this info doesn't help answer your question, but I wanted to tell you that I'm going thru the same thing as your friend.;

BigIronMike25

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2006, 06:16:30 AM »
these posts clearly show the importance of gettin blood done!

freakfestMD

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2006, 02:18:32 PM »
I had recently been looking at this myself, and found this interesting publication (2004):



Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids on apolipoproteins and lipoprotein (a).Hartgens F, Rietjens G, Keizer HA, Kuipers H, Wolffenbuttel BH.
Netherlands Centre for Doping Affairs, Capelle aan den IJssel, The Netherlands. fhartgens@home.nl

OBJECTIVES: To investigate the effects of two different regimens of androgenic-anabolic steroid (AAS) administration on serum lipid and lipoproteins, and recovery of these variables after drug cessation, as indicators of the risk for cardiovascular disease in healthy male strength athletes. METHODS: In a non-blinded study (study 1) serum lipoproteins and lipids were assessed in 19 subjects who self administered AASs for eight or 14 weeks, and in 16 non-using volunteers. In a randomised double blind, placebo controlled design, the effects of intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate (200 mg/week) for eight weeks on the same variables in 16 bodybuilders were studied (study 2). Fasting serum concentrations of total cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL-cholesterol (HDL-C), HDL2-cholesterol (HDL2-C), HDL3-cholesterol (HDL3-C), apolipoprotein A1 (Apo-A1), apolipoprotein B (Apo-B), and lipoprotein (a) (Lp(a)) were determined.

RESULTS: In study 1 AAS administration led to decreases in serum concentrations of HDL-C (from 1.08 (0.30) to 0.43 (0.22) mmol/l), HDL2-C (from 0.21 (0.18) to 0.05 (0.03) mmol/l), HDL3-C (from 0.87 (0.24) to 0.40 (0.20) mmol/l, and Apo-A1 (from 1.41 (0.27) to 0.71 (0.34) g/l), whereas Apo-B increased from 0.96 (0.13) to 1.32 (0.28) g/l. Serum Lp(a) declined from 189 (315) to 32 (63) U/l. Total cholesterol and triglycerides did not change significantly. Alterations after eight and 14 weeks of AAS administration were comparable. No changes occurred in the controls. Six weeks after AAS cessation, serum HDL-C, HDL2-C, Apo-A1, Apo-B, and Lp(a) had still not returned to baseline concentrations. Administration of AAS for 14 weeks was associated with slower recovery to pretreatment concentrations than administration for eight weeks. In study 2, nandrolone decanoate did not influence serum triglycerides, total cholesterol, HDL-C, HDL2-C, HDL3-C, Apo-A1, and Apo-B concentrations after four and eight weeks of intervention, nor six weeks after withdrawal. However, Lp(a) concentrations decreased significantly from 103 (68) to 65 (44) U/l in the nandrolone decanoate group, and in the placebo group a smaller reduction from 245 (245) to 201 (194) U/l was observed. Six weeks after the intervention period, Lp(a) concentrations had returned to baseline values in both groups.

CONCLUSIONS: Self administration of several AASs simultaneously for eight or 14 weeks produces comparable profound unfavourable effects on lipids and lipoproteins, leading to an increased atherogenic lipid profile, despite a beneficial effect on Lp(a) concentration. The changes persist after AAS withdrawal, and normalisation depends on the duration of the drug abuse. Eight weeks of administration of nandrolone decanoate does not affect lipid and lipoprotein concentrations, although it may selectively reduce Lp(a) concentrations. The effect of this on atherogenesis remains to be established.



The major drawback here is that the regimens for the study group 1, those who self-administered AAS, was not uniform or revealed.  I would think that testosterone (plus other drugs) was utilized, but that is only an assumption.  Suffice it to say, though, that the serum elevations were not insignificant and did persist after cessation of the drugs.

This next study looked specifically at testosterone ("T"): (2001)

The effects of varying doses of T on insulin sensitivity, plasma lipids, apolipoproteins, and C-reactive protein in healthy young men.Singh AB, Hsia S, Alaupovic P, Sinha-Hikim I, Woodhouse L, Buchanan TA, Shen R, Bross R, Berman N, Bhasin S.
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059, USA.

The effects of T supplementation on insulin sensitivity, inflammation-sensitive markers, and apolipoproteins remain poorly understood. We do not know whether T's effects on plasma lipids, apolipoproteins, and insulin sensitivity are dose dependent, or whether significant anabolic effects can be achieved at T doses that do not adversely affect these cardiovascular risk factors. To determine the effects of different doses of T, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr of age, were randomly assigned to 1 of 5 groups to receive monthly injections of long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous T secretion and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg T enanthate for 20 wk. Dietary energy and protein intakes were standardized. Combined administration of GnRH agonist and graded doses of T enanthate resulted in nadir T concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1345, and 2370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Plasma high density lipoprotein cholesterol and apolipoprotein A-I concentrations were inversely correlated with total and free T concentrations and were significantly decreased only in the 600 mg/wk group (change in high density lipoprotein cholesterol: -8 +/- 2 mg/dl; P = 0.0005; change in apolipoprotein A-I: -16 +/- 2 mg/dl; P = 0.0001). Serum total cholesterol, low density lipoprotein cholesterol, very low density lipoprotein cholesterol, triglycerides, apolipoprotein B, and apolipoprotein C-III were not significantly correlated with T dose or concentration. There was no significant change in total cholesterol, low density lipoprotein cholesterol, very low density lipoprotein cholesterol, triglycerides, apolipoprotein B, or apolipoprotein C-III levels at any dose. The insulin sensitivity index, glucose effectiveness, and acute insulin response to glucose, derived from the insulin-modified, frequently sampled, iv glucose tolerance test using the Bergman minimal model, did not change significantly at any dose. Circulating levels of C-reactive protein were not correlated with T concentrations and did not change with treatment in any group. Significant increments in fat-free mass, muscle size, and strength were observed at doses that did not affect cardiovascular risk factors. Over a wide range of doses, including those associated with significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle size, T had no adverse effect on insulin sensitivity, plasma lipids, apolipoproteins, or C-reactive protein. Only the highest dose of T (600 mg/wk) was associated with a reduction in plasma high density lipoprotein cholesterol and apolipoprotein A-I. Long-term studies are needed to determine whether T supplementation of older men with low T levels affects atherosclerosis progression.



Although perhaps a more encouraging study, one thing to note is the effect with what they called the "highest doses" of testosterone--600mg--a dose that many of us would consider fairly low for our purposes.


legbreaker

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2006, 02:31:12 PM »
Steroids will not have any effect on triglycerides.  Obviously they can effect cholesterol values.  Did any of you guys use insulin?  Do any of you guys eat lots of carbs or junk food/sugar?  That's is the most common thing to effect tri.  Hormonally speaking, low test has been associated with high triglycerides.

DIVISION

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2006, 09:31:46 PM »
I had recently been looking at this myself, and found this interesting publication (2004):



Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids on apolipoproteins and lipoprotein (a).Hartgens F, Rietjens G, Keizer HA, Kuipers H, Wolffenbuttel BH.
Netherlands Centre for Doping Affairs, Capelle aan den IJssel, The Netherlands. fhartgens@home.nl

OBJECTIVES: To investigate the effects of two different regimens of androgenic-anabolic steroid (AAS) administration on serum lipid and lipoproteins, and recovery of these variables after drug cessation, as indicators of the risk for cardiovascular disease in healthy male strength athletes. METHODS: In a non-blinded study (study 1) serum lipoproteins and lipids were assessed in 19 subjects who self administered AASs for eight or 14 weeks, and in 16 non-using volunteers. In a randomised double blind, placebo controlled design, the effects of intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate (200 mg/week) for eight weeks on the same variables in 16 bodybuilders were studied (study 2). Fasting serum concentrations of total cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL-cholesterol (HDL-C), HDL2-cholesterol (HDL2-C), HDL3-cholesterol (HDL3-C), apolipoprotein A1 (Apo-A1), apolipoprotein B (Apo-B), and lipoprotein (a) (Lp(a)) were determined.

RESULTS: In study 1 AAS administration led to decreases in serum concentrations of HDL-C (from 1.08 (0.30) to 0.43 (0.22) mmol/l), HDL2-C (from 0.21 (0.18) to 0.05 (0.03) mmol/l), HDL3-C (from 0.87 (0.24) to 0.40 (0.20) mmol/l, and Apo-A1 (from 1.41 (0.27) to 0.71 (0.34) g/l), whereas Apo-B increased from 0.96 (0.13) to 1.32 (0.28) g/l. Serum Lp(a) declined from 189 (315) to 32 (63) U/l. Total cholesterol and triglycerides did not change significantly. Alterations after eight and 14 weeks of AAS administration were comparable. No changes occurred in the controls. Six weeks after AAS cessation, serum HDL-C, HDL2-C, Apo-A1, Apo-B, and Lp(a) had still not returned to baseline concentrations. Administration of AAS for 14 weeks was associated with slower recovery to pretreatment concentrations than administration for eight weeks. In study 2, nandrolone decanoate did not influence serum triglycerides, total cholesterol, HDL-C, HDL2-C, HDL3-C, Apo-A1, and Apo-B concentrations after four and eight weeks of intervention, nor six weeks after withdrawal. However, Lp(a) concentrations decreased significantly from 103 (68) to 65 (44) U/l in the nandrolone decanoate group, and in the placebo group a smaller reduction from 245 (245) to 201 (194) U/l was observed. Six weeks after the intervention period, Lp(a) concentrations had returned to baseline values in both groups.

CONCLUSIONS: Self administration of several AASs simultaneously for eight or 14 weeks produces comparable profound unfavourable effects on lipids and lipoproteins, leading to an increased atherogenic lipid profile, despite a beneficial effect on Lp(a) concentration. The changes persist after AAS withdrawal, and normalisation depends on the duration of the drug abuse. Eight weeks of administration of nandrolone decanoate does not affect lipid and lipoprotein concentrations, although it may selectively reduce Lp(a) concentrations. The effect of this on atherogenesis remains to be established.



The major drawback here is that the regimens for the study group 1, those who self-administered AAS, was not uniform or revealed.  I would think that testosterone (plus other drugs) was utilized, but that is only an assumption.  Suffice it to say, though, that the serum elevations were not insignificant and did persist after cessation of the drugs.

This next study looked specifically at testosterone ("T"): (2001)

The effects of varying doses of T on insulin sensitivity, plasma lipids, apolipoproteins, and C-reactive protein in healthy young men.Singh AB, Hsia S, Alaupovic P, Sinha-Hikim I, Woodhouse L, Buchanan TA, Shen R, Bross R, Berman N, Bhasin S.
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059, USA.

The effects of T supplementation on insulin sensitivity, inflammation-sensitive markers, and apolipoproteins remain poorly understood. We do not know whether T's effects on plasma lipids, apolipoproteins, and insulin sensitivity are dose dependent, or whether significant anabolic effects can be achieved at T doses that do not adversely affect these cardiovascular risk factors. To determine the effects of different doses of T, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr of age, were randomly assigned to 1 of 5 groups to receive monthly injections of long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous T secretion and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg T enanthate for 20 wk. Dietary energy and protein intakes were standardized. Combined administration of GnRH agonist and graded doses of T enanthate resulted in nadir T concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1345, and 2370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Plasma high density lipoprotein cholesterol and apolipoprotein A-I concentrations were inversely correlated with total and free T concentrations and were significantly decreased only in the 600 mg/wk group (change in high density lipoprotein cholesterol: -8 +/- 2 mg/dl; P = 0.0005; change in apolipoprotein A-I: -16 +/- 2 mg/dl; P = 0.0001). Serum total cholesterol, low density lipoprotein cholesterol, very low density lipoprotein cholesterol, triglycerides, apolipoprotein B, and apolipoprotein C-III were not significantly correlated with T dose or concentration. There was no significant change in total cholesterol, low density lipoprotein cholesterol, very low density lipoprotein cholesterol, triglycerides, apolipoprotein B, or apolipoprotein C-III levels at any dose. The insulin sensitivity index, glucose effectiveness, and acute insulin response to glucose, derived from the insulin-modified, frequently sampled, iv glucose tolerance test using the Bergman minimal model, did not change significantly at any dose. Circulating levels of C-reactive protein were not correlated with T concentrations and did not change with treatment in any group. Significant increments in fat-free mass, muscle size, and strength were observed at doses that did not affect cardiovascular risk factors. Over a wide range of doses, including those associated with significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle size, T had no adverse effect on insulin sensitivity, plasma lipids, apolipoproteins, or C-reactive protein. Only the highest dose of T (600 mg/wk) was associated with a reduction in plasma high density lipoprotein cholesterol and apolipoprotein A-I. Long-term studies are needed to determine whether T supplementation of older men with low T levels affects atherosclerosis progression.



Although perhaps a more encouraging study, one thing to note is the effect with what they called the "highest doses" of testosterone--600mg--a dose that many of us would consider fairly low for our purposes.




We already knew that Deca doesn't affect lipid levels....

I'm a bit perplexed as to why a moderate dose (600MG) of Testosterone would coincide with a decrease in plasma HDL, though.

It's known that several 17AA orals decrease HDL.....

All the more important to incorporate EFA's in to the diet.




DIV
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weldr911

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2006, 03:28:20 AM »
Legbreaker, No I didn't use insulin- just d-bol and test on my last cycle. Pretty simple, nothing complicated.
No i don't eat alot of carbs- I mean I don't go over board with them. I always keep them In check. I do somethimes carb up before a workout- but like I said- nothing extreme.
I'm going back to the doctor in 3 weeks to get my blood work done again- to see how things are coming together.
The doctor wanted to put me on testosterone replacement therapy to see if he could elevate my test level back up, but after he told me how much he would be administering into my system I told him that he would be wasting my time and his- not mention my insurance.
He was only going to give me 100mgs a MONTH for 3 months. Thats right, 1 shot a month for 3 months at 100mgs a pop. Hardly worth it.
I told him that I was taking 500 mgs a week when I was on the sauce. I thought his eyes were going to pop out of his head!! LOL.
Then I told him that the amount that "I" was taking was minor compared to the amount of what some guys that I know take. Not to mention the mgs a week that most of you guys on here take. LOL

freakfestMD

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2006, 04:57:23 AM »

All the more important to incorporate EFA's in to the diet.

DIV

I agree.  Niacin should also be taken, at 500mg per day.

DIVISION

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2006, 03:13:56 PM »
I agree.  Niacin should also be taken, at 500mg per day.

Spaced out evenly over the course of the day?




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freakfestMD

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2006, 03:04:54 PM »
Spaced out evenly over the course of the day?

DIV

Most studies have looked at a one-time dose of 500mg each day.  That's how I take it, in the am with the rest of my vitamins.

w_llewellyn

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2006, 04:14:08 AM »

We already knew that Deca doesn't affect lipid levels....

I'm a bit perplexed as to why a moderate dose (600MG) of Testosterone would coincide with a decrease in plasma HDL, though.

It's known that several 17AA orals decrease HDL.....

All the more important to incorporate EFA's in to the diet.




DIV

Nandrolone has a stronger impact on lipids than testosterone, due to the fact that it is more slowly aromatized (less estrogen to offset the anabolic). Testosterone lowers HDL too, even at 200 and 400 mg/week doses, it is just not a very significant impact (in some studies it is deemd signifcant at these doses, others it is not, but it is lowered in all).

The bottom line: Anabolic/Androgenic steroids and HDL are inversely correlated with one another. Orals and non-aromatizable substances have a stronger impact than testosterone. Testosterone is likely the safest on your lipids, ahead of nandrolone, primo, etc, as it supplies more estrogen. Oral are the worst, of course, as they supplement hig levels directly to the liver.





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w_llewellyn

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Re: effect steriods has on triglycerides
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2006, 04:24:35 AM »
Here is just a quick abstract:

Lipemic and lipoproteinemic effects of natural and synthetic androgens in humans.
Crist DM, Peake GT, Stackpole PJ. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol. 1986 Jul;13(7):513-8.

Testosterone cypionate administration in weight-trained subjects reduced serum high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) levels without affecting the total cholesterol (Total-C)/HDL-C ratio. Nandrolone decanoate administration also reduced HDL-C levels, but elevated the Total-C/HDL-C ratio. These findings could not be attributed to changes in exercise patterns, dietary intake, or alcohol consumption. It is concluded that the synthetic androgen employed in this study produced a worsening of potential lipid-related risk factors for ischemic heart disease and that exogenous testosterone has a much less pronounced effect on such risk factors.
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