What created God?

[UpTheDosage]

I am not a religous person by any means, but I do know there has to be a higher power. If that higher power is indeed God, who or what created Him?

[Hedgehog]

[freespirit]

God is!

[Nordic Superman]

lol quite whitty for a Swede!

[Necrosis]

you make a mistake that many make. matter create time, linear time or cause and effect is a causal product of this universe. however, matter cannot be eternal(thermodynamics) and is not infinite(redshift). to say that nothing created something you are still left with the idea of first cause, which is problamatic. therefore there has to be some uncaused cause. the universe could not pop out of nothing, which there is nothing to pop out of.

however, you are also using normal logic in the realm of cosmology which is unacceptable. something outside this universe had to create the universe(nothing cannot create something. check out my thread on avant and some peoples responses http://www.avantlabs.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23897 ). some may like to beleive that nothing can create something but this is ignorance or plain stupidity. anyway, if you come to the conclusion that something has always been (eternal)people often say what created god? time exists because of matter(einstein) therefore anything outside of the universe does not have to be bound by this dimension(time). therefore if time does not exist there is  no beginnning-end-middle therefore no need for cause. time creates the need for cause. something eternal just "is" and is always by virtue of being eternal. asking what created god is a question that your trying to frame in our dualistic reality when "this" reality is not applicable to "outside"the universe.

hope this helps.

[Nordic Superman]

Does matter = energy? (e = mc²)

[Necrosis]

yes matter is "frozen energy" in einstein terms. we are all made or a infinite, non-tangilble,non visual substance which has no form. we are all condensed light beams for simplicity at the most fundamental level, we essentially are light beings, as new-agey as it sounds. during the grand unification epoch electromagnetic radiation was converted to matter.

[Necrosis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_timeline#The_Grand_Unification_Epoch:_10-33_second

some stuff on the big bang, and creation of matter.

[sandycoosworth]

I am not a religous person by any means, but I do know there has to be a higher power. If that higher power is indeed God, who or what created Him?

This is how you defeat any argument about the proof of god, they all come back to "everything needs a creater" and you simply say "who created the creater" and watch their little world fall apart

[Nordic Superman]

Right but in relation to this:

however, matter cannot be eternal(thermodynamics)

Do you mean matter's existance as the STATE of matter cannot be eternal?

[Necrosis]

yes, matter and energy exist as two entities that are in direct opposite of each other but are one in the same. they have totally different properties, similar to the wave/partilce duality of photons. also, the universe to my knowledge is a closed system, so no energy is being inputed, thus energy can neither be created or destroyed, however, in a closed system energy is not inputed. see the contradiction. dont get it twisted i dont have all the answers, no man does, it will take a leap of faith for atheism, theism. monism, pantheism etc. something outside the laws, operating seperately from time, matter and energy would have to create all that is. it doesnt make sense any other way. to say matter is all there is and abide by physics all along, expect during creation is bad science. so go with science, matter can not be created, thus we shouldnt be here unless something operates above this principle. matter is not eternal, hence had a singularity were it did not exist. but NOTHING could not have existed, something has always existed and too me, the radical creation, complexity, purposive structures such as reproduction and even dna, laws, and many anthropomorphic arguments point to a god. there are alot more reasons.

so your left with two possiblities really, the universe is eternal

or something else is, this would be my choice based on my current knowledge. i was once an atheist. i think intuition is the best evidence of god.

[Necrosis]

This is how you defeat any argument about the proof of god, they all come back to "everything needs a creater" and you simply say "who created the creater" and watch their little world fall apart

try to understand what i wrote


hope this helps.

[sandycoosworth]

My responce rendered yours obsolete jagoff

[Necrosis]

for one the proper spelling of responce is response. and point number two, creation of eternal is not valid. pick one


hope this helps

[sandycoosworth]

creation of eternal is not valid.

Which is another way of saying you cannot create eternal

Which is another way of saying eternal does not exist

Was that responce any better

[Necrosis]

cause is a function of time, eternal does not operate in time, therefore cause is not prevalent to eternal. i have already showed why eteranl exists. your argument is so stupid you sound like clubber lang, but then again you clearly are clubber lang. why do you meltdown and start new accounts every month, your a patsy son. cause is relevant to eteranl, stop using dualistic terminology to describe it, your not working with the right language or mindset(ie intelligence).

[Necrosis]

Which is another way of saying you cannot create eternal

Which is another way of saying eternal does not exist

Was that responce any better

meltdown

and no the responce wasn't any better, if eternal does not exist then nothing created something. how come your the only person i have to baby with knowledge. your allergic to information.

[Necrosis]

your mother is an aids patient

[sandycoosworth]

your a patsy son.

That should be you're, asshole

3 posts in a row is a classic meltdown, and so is using big words you clearly do not understand when confronted with a simple argument that crushes yours

[Necrosis]

hehe meltdown, clubber lang is a chronic name changing patsy who cant handle it when someone calls him out. what big words did i use hahah, your dumber then a sack or smacked assholes. ive owned you only several occasions and you change your name and keep coming back.

fuck i would have edited my post to make it one then three but i dont give a fuck,you on the other hand change your handle, after a meltdown haha the roof of your mouth has a mushroom bruise.

[Debussey]

yes, matter and energy exist as two entities that are in direct opposite of each other but are one in the same. they have totally different properties, similar to the wave/partilce duality of photons. also, the universe to my knowledge is a closed system, so no energy is being inputed, thus energy can neither be created or destroyed, however, in a closed system energy is not inputed. see the contradiction. dont get it twisted i dont have all the answers, no man does, it will take a leap of faith for atheism, theism. monism, pantheism etc. something outside the laws, operating seperately from time, matter and energy would have to create all that is. it doesnt make sense any other way. to say matter is all there is and abide by physics all along, expect during creation is bad science. so go with science, matter can not be created, thus we shouldnt be here unless something operates above this principle. matter is not eternal, hence had a singularity were it did not exist. but NOTHING could not have existed, something has always existed and too me, the radical creation, complexity, purposive structures such as reproduction and even dna, laws, and many anthropomorphic arguments point to a god. there are alot more reasons.

so your left with two possiblities really, the universe is eternal

or something else is, this would be my choice based on my current knowledge. i was once an atheist. i think intuition is the best evidence of god.

What kind of degree do you have?

[Bigger Business]

who or what created Him?

[Necrosis]

psychology/neuroscience  i have no education in any of the stuff i talk about on this forum.

[sandycoosworth]

i have no education in any of the stuff i talk about on this forum.

It shows

[Necrosis]

It shows