TO ALL IFBB PRO'S RE: CONTRACTS

[Chick]

Read it again,

Notice the italicized word thus bringing direct focus to the issue I stressed.  Had pro judges overlooked important details such as yourself, perhaps you could have been Mr. Olympia. 

Notice how is was largely irrelevant to the point...which was already made.

[NJ_Slinky]

Notice how is was largely irrelevant to the point...which was already made.

I'm noticing how you are unable to admit that you misread my post as well as my statement regarding the judges.

[Chick]

If your point was different than my own...explain it for all to see.

All your ignorant comments will continue to be ignored.

Do you have anything constructive to add to this topic?

[knny187]

I've decided not to renew my contract

 

[NJ_Slinky]

If your point was different than my own...explain it for all to see.

All your ignorant comments will continue to be ignored.

Do you have anything constructive to add to this topic?

Holy Christ, you are the worst.  I'll take "What doesn't Chick understand for $65,075,398,742,661, Alex":

Your paragraph 3

This language is specifically set up to benefit the company (surprise, surprise...) and not the athlete.

Then your paragraph 8

Any legitimate company should have no problem with this clause, as it in no way affects them...

Stop looking at the shiny object, Chick.  Stay with me now as I originally wrote the following by quoting your paragraph 8:

LOL!!!  Of course this effects any legitimate company as it takes away from their negotiating power!  Why should they give the bodybuilder anything, not in their best interest as they can lock in a better prospect with only a 30 day double premium.  No way the industry is this bootleg, lol, it can't.

Paragraph 8 was your reasoning after you stated a solution to avoid paragraph 3.  Your first epiphany of business related to either legit/non-legit companies.  Then you declared "legitimate" companies wouldn't find any harm with your epiphany thus contradicting yourself.  Therefore, not only did I find teh funneh in your statement but also in your flawed argument.  If you like, I can incorporate this into a mathematical formula and overnight the sticky to your office.

As far as my other comments, you can't show the fault.  If so, "explain it for all to see".

[rockyfortune]

Chick...understand the post and all..but for the life of me I can't believe that these 'pros' fail to read/comprehend what their contracts are saying...

[NJ_Slinky]

Chick...understand the post and all..but for the life of me I can't believe that these 'pros' fail to read/comprehend what their contracts are saying...

or rely on message boards for the purpose of securing their financial futures.

[rockyfortune]

or rely on message boards for the purpose of securing their financial futures.

lol..yeah..good point.

[Chick]

Holy Christ, you are the worst.  I'll take "What doesn't Chick understand for $65,075,398,742,661, Alex":

Your paragraph 3
Then your paragraph 8
Stop looking at the shiny object, Chick.  Stay with me now as I originally wrote the following by quoting your paragraph 8:

Paragraph 8 was your reasoning after you stated a solution to avoid paragraph 3.  Your first epiphany of business related to either legit/non-legit companies.  Then you declared "legitimate" companies wouldn't find any harm with your epiphany thus contradicting yourself.  Therefore, not only did I find teh funneh in your statement but also in your flawed argument.  If you like, I can incorporate this into a mathematical formula and overnight the sticky to your office.

As far as my other comments, you can't show the fault.  If so, "explain it for all to see".

The argument was never whether the compnies were "legit" or "not legit"...the point was to bring awareness to a situation that many pro BBers find themselves in...

There is no argument to be flawed, Einstein...

The only "argument" I see here, is you trying to look intelligent and coming across as a fool instead...

This isn't a debate, jerkoff...it doesn't pertain to you, so STFU unless you have anything worthwhile to contribute.

[slummin]

I put it on here because I know many of the pro'sread these boards daily

that explains SO MUCH about how these guys can be taken advantage of over and over and over.....

[Chick]

It's got less to do with being taken advantage of, and more to do with understanding how something is written. I've seen many a contract, and some of them are very open to interpretation.

Also, its a little more difficult than some people here make it out to be...when a contract is presented to you, and a big opportunity at that with $100K looking at you, if the escape clause for the company is whats holding up sealing the deal, few athletes will walk away.

I'm not suggesting they do...I'm informing them of what their contract may say and suggesting they try and negotiate with the company to make it fair for both parties.

[onlyme]

The problem is that these guys don't opening go out and seek sponsorships or entertain the idea to make them more marketable.  Which in turn would have other companies wanting to sign them.  Of course they can't do anything until the contract is up but once it starts to come up you go and start talking to the other companies and see what everyone is offering.  The problem is no one does that and Weider is the only source.  Go out market yourself get your name out there and other sponsors will come forward for you.  Then when it comes down to renegotiating your contract your have some leverage. This way you till Weider what you want or you walk.  I have a feeling that most of these guys are satisfied and don't care to look for greener pastures.  When I was with Vuarnet I was the second highest paid athlete behind Martina Navratilova (?).  I got allot of exposure but nothing that would justify what I was getting paid.  So I went to Revo about a month out from my expiration date.  I knew they weren't going to renew and I didn't want to be in a position where I wasn't getting that money in. So literally the day after I was dropped by Vuarnet I was picked up by Revo.  Thats what these guys got to do

[Chick]

It's got nothing to do with Weider...those days are long gone.

It's the supplement companies that are offering the contracts, Weider, MD. MMI, etc...only offer publication contracts (nice, but nowhere near what the supp companies are paying out).

[onlyme]

It's got nothing to do with Weider...those days are long gone.

It's the supplement companies that are offering the contracts, Weider, MD. MMI, etc...only offer publication contracts (nice, but nowhere near what the supp companies are paying out).

Then it should be even easier to gain control over their negotiations if the person is truly marketable.  SOmeone like you who speaks well (except on here) and shows they can handle being in front of the camera and is confident is marketable.  SOmeone like Cutler, Coleman are not.  Cutler is deinfitely more than Coleman but neither is anything special.  As much as Kamali may not win shows and doesn't show that great body like others, he is marketable cause he is out there.  He gets publicity even when he loses.  If you have a sponsor and your contract is up to expire or renegotiate then you have to go out and contact other companies and tell them you are available to talk about sponsorship.

[NJ_Slinky]

The argument was never whether the compnies were "legit" or "not legit"...the point was to bring awareness to a situation that many pro BBers find themselves in...

There is no argument to be flawed, Einstein...

The only "argument" I see here, is you trying to look intelligent and coming across as a fool instead...

This isn't a debate, jerkoff...it doesn't pertain to you, so STFU unless you have anything worthwhile to contribute.

Wrong,

Your business advice is misguided and as you pretend to think you're impressing others via a message board, I may choose to openly laugh at you.  I may lend a hand to your targeted audience, laugh again at your advice, then watch you twist with each successive post.

[onlyme]

If you guys have seen the Olympiacontract I think you would understand why the pros get taken advantage of.  No legal person of any capacity wrote the contract.  It is defintiely one of the worst contracts ever written.  I remember when I did my first show and was bringing in so many pros and was spending over $50,000 for them I had an attorney draw up a contract for them to sign.  It was very detailed exsactly how a contract should be.  Not one pro would sign it.  The reason being they didn't understand it and it held them accountable.  The problem I had was I waited to long to get it to them so I didn't make it mandatory to sign and took my chances.  2 guys signed it.  I got fucked by a few guys.  I learned my lesson.  But, in short the pros have no idea what these contracts say and do not have attorneys read them.  They do not have agents.  They really do deserve everything they get.

[slummin]

I'm surprised Don King didn't jump in when Vince left the door open.

Most intelligent men of honor stopped looking at bodybuilding as a sport to persue several years ago.

[slaveboy1980]

chick what is your training split? did your really start to grow when you started working each bodypart only once per week (not including indirect stimulation)

[stuntmovie]

This is certainly PROGRESS!

Back in my day there were no such things as contracts in the bodybuilding world. In fact I actually don't recall any suppliment hawker other than Weider and Hoffman who had any advertising at all directed at the lifting world.

No one was concerned about contracts! They just wanted to get a mention or a photo in the magazines.

And a cover shot was hitting the jackpot without the cash award.

And those bodybuilders who "wrote" the articles (great story there in its own right) did NOT get cash. Only promotional consideration or if they were worthy enough (such as Mentzer), they would get a full page ad to promote whatever they had that the public would buy.

There  is a good story here that should be written ........

When did Weider bodybuilding and other suppliment companies contracts come into vogue?
Who signed the first one?
How much money was involved over how long a period?
What was the ad?
What are contracts worth today?
Who pays best?
Who pays the least?
Etc., etc., etc.

I never did ask, but I heard a rumor that the average value of a Weider contract was around $45,000 a year, but any additional terms would be beyond my knowledge. But I do know for a fact that Weider would offer those athletes under contract to various NPC promoters in exchange for IFBB recognition on all promotional material. I don't recall if that offer included travel expenses.

Sorry to get off topic but "contracts" kind of prove that this "sport" has advanced since the days of yore.

[Tinsley]

This is certainly PROGRESS!

Back in my day there were no such things as contracts in the bodybuilding world. In fact I actually don't recall any suppliment hawker other than Weider and Hoffman who had any advertising at all directed at the lifting world.

No one was concerned about contracts! They just wanted to get a mention or a photo in the magazines.

And a cover shot was hitting the jackpot without the cash award.

And those bodybuilders who "wrote" the articles (great story there in its own right) did NOT get cash. Only promotional consideration or if they were worthy enough (such as Mentzer), they would get a full page ad to promote whatever they had that the public would buy.

There  is a good story here that should be written ........

When did Weider bodybuilding and other suppliment companies contracts come into vogue?
Who signed the first one?
How much money was involved over how long a period?
What was the ad?
What are contracts worth today?
Who pays best?
Who pays the least?
Etc., etc., etc.

I never did ask, but I heard a rumor that the average value of a Weider contract was around $45,000 a year, but any additional terms would be beyond my knowledge. But I do know for a fact that Weider would offer those athletes under contract to various NPC promoters in exchange for IFBB recognition on all promotional material. I don't recall if that offer included travel expenses.

Sorry to get off topic but "contracts" kind of prove that this "sport" has advanced since the days of yore.

You know, I'd really be curious about all of that

T

[gordiano]

Open letter to all IFBB pro's regarding signing/renewing contracts:

As many of you have contract deadlines that are coming before the new year, it has been brought to my attention by numerous pro's, that the language in the contract regarding "notice of signing/ not re-signing the athlete" refelects ONLY re-signing.

This language is specifically set up to benefit the company (surprise, surprise...) and not the athlete.

By not having to give advanced notice of NOT re-signing you, they can (and often do) simply string you along until the 11th hour when your negotiating power is zero, and you have wasted valuable time that could have been used to seek out new opportunities.

I suggest the following:

After reviewing the contract, find the article that SPECIFICALLY deals with renewal of your contract...most likely, it has a provision for the company to give you advanced notice (30 days) in th event they decide to RENEW your contract.

What you need to do is change it to reflect a 60-90 day written notice, in the event they are NOT going to re-sign you...this way you have ample time to get word out to prospective companies that you are available.

Any legitimate company should have no problem with this clause, as it in no way affects them...but very much puts you the athlete at a huge disadvantage.

If anyone should have additional questions in regards to contracts, etc...please don't hesitate to contact me at: ifbbprorep@aol.com


Bob Cicherillo
IFBB Pro Rep
IFBB Pro

"athlete"


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Monster delusions of grandeur..........

[gordiano]

If you guys have seen the Olympiacontract I think you would understand why the pros get taken advantage of.  No legal person of any capacity wrote the contract.  It is defintiely one of the worst contracts ever written.  I remember when I did my first show and was bringing in so many pros and was spending over $50,000 for them I had an attorney draw up a contract for them to sign.  It was very detailed exsactly how a contract should be.  Not one pro would sign it.  The reason being they didn't understand it and it held them accountable.  The problem I had was I waited to long to get it to them so I didn't make it mandatory to sign and took my chances.  2 guys signed it.  I got fucked by a few guys.  I learned my lesson.  But, in short the pros have no idea what these contracts say and do not have attorneys read them.  They do not have agents.  They really do deserve everything they get.

Are you saying that these "pro" bbers are dumber than Jessica Simpson?

[Chick]

"athlete"


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Monster delusions of grandeur..........

Remember that guy in school that kept telling the same joke so many times that It became not funny REAL quick....?

[Shawn Ray]

You mean these two
They wound up getting their own TV Show

[G o a t b o y]

Are you saying that these "pro" bbers are dumber than Jessica Simpson?

Yes.