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Author Topic: ONLYME! ARNOLD OR MENTZER?  (Read 4858 times)
alexxx
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« on: December 09, 2006, 12:06:24 PM »

Who do you think had the greatest intensity workouts?
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onlyme
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2006, 08:35:34 PM »

Who do you think had the greatest intensity workouts?

Don't know.  I saw Arnold train at Worlds quite a bit but really didn't take notice or remember.  He did though work out hard enough where he would go all out till failure.  Get that last rep in.  I never seen Mike Mentzer train.  Ray all the time.  And if Mike trained like Ray then I would pick Mike cause Ray at least in 85-86 trained hard and heavy.  Probably not as hard as when he competed though.  Cause when I knew him he was 280-290 lbs.
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alexxx
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2006, 09:34:14 PM »

Don't know.  I saw Arnold train at Worlds quite a bit but really didn't take notice or remember.  He did though work out hard enough where he would go all out till failure.  Get that last rep in.  I never seen Mike Mentzer train.  Ray all the time.  And if Mike trained like Ray then I would pick Mike cause Ray at least in 85-86 trained hard and heavy.  Probably not as hard as when he competed though.  Cause when I knew him he was 280-290 lbs.

Cool. So you would say Ray impressed you more?
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 09:03:32 AM »

Arnold


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figgs
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2006, 10:05:19 PM »

Arnold couldn't handle this.


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alexxx
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2006, 08:35:14 AM »

Are you kidding figgs? I hope you are!

Arnold would laugh his ass off at Mentzer and would tell him he could do 20 of his workouts in a row!


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figgs
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2006, 12:01:24 PM »

Are you kidding figgs? I hope you are!

Arnold would laugh his ass off at Mentzer and would tell him he could do 20 of his workouts in a row!

Arnold was always jealous of Mentzer's superior work ethic!


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knny187
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2006, 01:05:00 PM »

Arnold was always jealous of Mentzer's superior work ethic!

I honestly don't think so....

I believe it was Mike who opened his yap first & said that High Volume Training (What Arnold Condones) is full of b.s.

Arnold basically said "back it up on stage" & Mike failed to ever win a title.  He won the heavyweight or tall class as a Pro...but never the overall.

In 1980 Arnold wasn't his best but I still think he beat Mike in the overall.  I like Mike & his physique alot & some cases his bodyparts were more superior than Arnold that day...but Arnold still had the best overall package on that given day.
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 08:23:13 AM »

Arnold was always jealous of Mentzer's superior work ethic!
soooo superior that he won how many olympias??? and how many competitons over ahhhhnold???  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2006, 12:31:50 PM »

Arnold was always jealous of Mentzer's superior work ethic!

and Mentzer was jealous or Arnolds incredibly superior physique and achievements!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2006, 12:46:32 PM »


I believe it was Mike who opened his yap first & said that High Volume Training (What Arnold Condones) is full of b.s.

Arnold basically said "back it up on stage" & Mike failed to ever win a title.  He won the heavyweight or tall class as a Pro...but never the overall.

In 1980 Arnold wasn't his best but I still think he beat Mike in the overall.  I like Mike & his physique alot & some cases his bodyparts were more superior than Arnold that day...but Arnold still had the best overall package on that given day.
Never good to make contest results the measure, because those contests weren't completely fair and were run by a highly commercial enterprise with plenty of agendas and favoritism.

Fact is, a large part of the crowd at the '80 Olympia booed the winner.
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2006, 12:49:34 PM »

soooo superior that he won how many olympias??? and how many competitons over ahhhhnold???  Roll Eyes


Same as just stated-look carefully and notice that most of the top BBs of the late 70s, early 80s either left the IFBB or retired thanx to political hijinks, and you're going to go on contest results? Nubret here on getbig confirms the hijinks. Exactly why Mentzer, Padilla, Robinson, Szkalak and others, most of the top guys, left the IFBB.
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2006, 05:07:56 AM »

Same as just stated-look carefully and notice that most of the top BBs of the late 70s, early 80s either left the IFBB or retired thanx to political hijinks, and you're going to go on contest results? Nubret here on getbig confirms the hijinks. Exactly why Mentzer, Padilla, Robinson, Szkalak and others, most of the top guys, left the IFBB.

most of them left because they were sore losers with gigantic egos that couldn't accept the fact that they had to make improvements.

guys like haney, arnold, ronnie and yates didn't cry about losing in their first few trys, they simply went back to the drawing board and came back better.

serge had weak hammies, glutes, calves and his delts and quads were mediocre. not enough thickness and density in the back either.

robbie had weak calves and mediocre pecs, but a good case can be made for him nevertheless, just because everything else was so good.

put it this way, arnold had poor calves. he went and made them one his best body parts.

dorian lost a comp because of mediocre back, went away and made it his best body part.

guys like mentzer and kal spit their dummies like toddlers.

nobody ever made excuses for winning. Wink
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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2006, 07:00:10 AM »

most of them left because they were sore losers with gigantic egos that couldn't accept the fact that they had to make improvements.

guys like haney, arnold, ronnie and yates didn't cry about losing in their first few trys, they simply went back to the drawing board and came back better.

serge had weak hammies, glutes, calves and his delts and quads were mediocre. not enough thickness and density in the back either.

robbie had weak calves and mediocre pecs, but a good case can be made for him nevertheless, just because everything else was so good.

put it this way, arnold had poor calves. he went and made them one his best body parts.

dorian lost a comp because of mediocre back, went away and made it his best body part.

guys like mentzer and kal spit their dummies like toddlers.

nobody ever made excuses for winning. Wink

Serge had good quads,calves and delts.

I think arnold wud have looked super wide if he had had good delts, he had wide back but not big shoulders.

davie
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pumpster
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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2006, 09:07:19 AM »

most of them left because they were sore losers with gigantic egos that couldn't accept the fact that they had to make improvements.

guys like haney, arnold, ronnie and yates didn't cry about losing in their first few trys, they simply went back to the drawing board and came back better.

Monster rationalizations after the fact. Anyone with a shred of intelligence & integrity knows that the Olympia winners of the early 80s & late 70s were not the best-built men on the planet. Period. Robinson & Padilla were clearly better than the winners almost all of the time during that period. Robinson's calves were ok not poor, and the rest of him was unbeatable. Padilla still has arguably the best symmetry & size combo ever, was way out in front of Columbu in '81.

Sadly, those bereft of independant thought (the followers) now accept & even posit those suspect wins as some sort of proof of physical superiority, when in fact there was always a lot more to winning than the physical aspects. Anyone pretending otherwise is deliberately avoiding reality or is naive. The unfounded faith in the integrity of Weider & the IFBB to consistently deliver fair contest decisions is bizarre.

And despite their best efforts, the weaknesses of Haney & Yates were not addressed the way Schwarzenegger was able (and fortunate genetically) to do with calves. They were both still quite flawed with noticable imbalances, certainly not worthy of 1.5 decades worth of Olympias.

Haney was hugely flawed, not as good as some of the guys who left the IFBB, but like Yates, was "sponsored" by Weider, annointed as the guy who would win.

If "Beast" wants to continue the delusions, pretending that none of this existed or was even possible while throwing out weak speculatory excuses, all the while acknowledging that some of the guys who left were unbeatable despite his lame attempts to gripe about relatively minor areas (lame), i would like to introduce him to Santa next week. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2006, 12:40:41 AM »

Monster rationalizations after the fact. Anyone with a shred of intelligence & integrity knows that the Olympia winners of the early 80s & late 70s were not the best-built men on the planet. Period. Robinson & Padilla were clearly better than the winners almost all of the time during that period. Robinson's calves were ok not poor, and the rest of him was unbeatable. Padilla still has arguably the best symmetry & size combo ever, was way out in front of Columbu in '81.

Sadly, those bereft of independant thought (the followers) now accept & even posit those suspect wins as some sort of proof of physical superiority, when in fact there was always a lot more to winning than the physical aspects. Anyone pretending otherwise is deliberately avoiding reality or is naive. The unfounded faith in the integrity of Weider & the IFBB to consistently deliver fair contest decisions is bizarre.

And despite their best efforts, the weaknesses of Haney & Yates were not addressed the way Schwarzenegger was able (and fortunate genetically) to do with calves. They were both still quite flawed with noticable imbalances, certainly not worthy of 1.5 decades worth of Olympias.

Haney was hugely flawed, not as good as some of the guys who left the IFBB, but like Yates, was "sponsored" by Weider, annointed as the guy who would win.

If "Beast" wants to continue the delusions, pretending that none of this existed or was even possible while throwing out weak speculatory excuses, all the while acknowledging that some of the guys who left were unbeatable despite his lame attempts to gripe about relatively minor areas (lame), i would like to introduce him to Santa next week. Roll Eyes

pump, you only addressed part of my post, not the entire context, which you are prone to do.

tell me when serge got ripped off against arnold? please name the contest specifically, i would be fascinated to get your view on this.

robbie had POOR calves. anyone that has seen robbie's calves at contest time knows this. to say otherwise is just wishful (for your boy) thinking.

padilla SHOULD have beaten franco, i agree (as a few others should have) and mentzer SHOULD have beaten arnold (same scenario).

some, like mentzer, go away and cry about it (and become poor meth addicts) and some, like arnold, come back better than ever and become superstars.

nubret is here ONLY being 'honest' about the things that he CHOOSES to be 'honest' about and that are very convenient to him.

his most honest statement was that he 'didn't like competing' (which i inferred as didn't like getting beaten).

the fact is, whether you or serge choose to acknowledge or not, that guys like nubret and mentzer were too weak and egotistical to recognise that they had imperfections and chose to avoid the issue (competing) rather than accept the painful truth and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

arnold did something about it and so did dorian.

welcome to life 101. hope you enjoyed the lesson. Wink
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2006, 05:47:01 AM »

Why would i read through all of this crap when you continue to fail to realize that all it takes is to refute one of your claims to prove that some of the contest results were bogus! haahahahaha Frightening lack of common sense. You still don't get it.

We'll just agree that Padilla was screwed. Right there the integrity of the Olympia's thrown into doubt by that injustice.

Once that lack of integrity's confirmed, other results can easily be questioned. Robinson too is in that category, because you still don't get that no one is physically perfect, so whatever was wrong with his calves is minor. His calves were ok not poor, as proven here in this pic but either way your excuses are LAME.

As far as Nubret, your cognitive difficulties continue-never did i say he was better than Schwarzenegger. I merely used his accurate perspectives, far more accurate than yours, to confirm the hijinks were quite clear to those in the middle of it, in relation to Weider contest results in general, not about Nubret himself. Is it really that hard to figure out the difference?


Game, set, match. Grin Grin Grin

 
It was fun, like shooting fish in a barrel. All it took is one clear example (Padilla) to shoot holes in your flimsly argument. The Robinson pic also refutes any claim of poor calves. Grin Grin Grin


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« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2006, 05:59:04 AM »

Why would i read through all of this crap when you continue to fail to realize that all it takes is to refute one of your claims to prove that some of the contest results were bogus? haahahahaha Incredible that you still don't get it.

We'll just agree that Padilla was screwed. Right there the whole integrity of the Olympia's thrown into doubt.

Once that's confirmed, Robinson too is in that category, because you still don't get that no one is physically perfect, so whatever was wrong with his calves is minor.

Game, set, match. It was fun, like shooting fish in a barrel, shooting holes in flimsly arguments when it takes only one example. Grin Grin Grin

ha ha, not quite pump.

every organisation gets a decision wrong sometimes, even the justice system. it doesn't undermine the whole organisation's credibility.

padilla and robinson simply weren't good enough to return as convincing winners. padilla was too small with a mediocre back and triceps and robinson had POOR calves (even worse than ronnie's) and a sub par chest. come to think of it, his quads were pretty shitty too.

nobody wins the olympia with clear flaws like this.

btw, i see you still haven't given me an occasion when serge got ripped off against arnold.

i take your silence on this issue to mean that you can't. Grin

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« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2006, 06:02:13 AM »


Lame excuses in the face of glaring injustices = unable to refute my points. "Beast" may be mentally retarded - "shit happens" is his excuse. bwahahaahahahahahah

Padilla should have won in a fair contest, as should have Robinson-the pic confirms ok, not poor calves.


Are you really that stupid? I'll repeat again, I never said Nubret should've beaten Schwarzenegger. What i'll repeat since you conveniently refuse the truth, is that he was in a much better place than you to accurately comment on the hijinks occuring in Weider's contests. You remind me of an ostrich with it's head in the sand when it comes to this. Basically let's face it, you liked that the white guys (Zane, Columbu) were allowed to win over Robinson & Nubret, who were physically better.

Nubret wouldn't have beaten Schwarzenegger, but he would've had Zane and Columbu for lunch in the late 70s just as Robinson could have, in contests fair enough that they were worth entering. No coincidence he didn't enter any IFBB contests after the mid-70s.


"Beast" contemplating yet more lame excuses:


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« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2006, 06:22:53 AM »


Lame excuses in the face of glaring injustices = unable to refute my points. "Beast" may be mentally retarded.

Padilla should have won in a fair contest, as should have Robinson-the pic confirms ok, not poor calves.


Are you really that stupid? I'll repeat again, I never said Nubret should've beaten Schwarzenegger. What i'll repeat since you conveniently refuse the truth, is that he was in a much better place than you to accurately comment on the hijinks occuring in Weider's contests. You remind me of an ostrich with it's head in the sand when it comes to this. Basically let's face it, you liked that the white guys (Zane, Columbu) were allowed to win over Robinson & Nubret, who were physically better.

Nubret wouldn't have beaten Schwarzenegger, but he would've had Zane and Columbu for lunch in the late 70s just as Robinson could have, in contests fair enough that they were worth entering. No coincidence he didn't enter any IFBB contests after the mid-70s.


"Beast" contemplating yet more lame excuses:

ok, so nubret wasn't good enough to beat arnold, you agree.

now show me where nubret got ripped off against zane or columbu?
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« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2006, 06:55:44 AM »

I've made my points. It's like explaining gravity, rather obvious and gets old. Smiley

One can see clearly that there's something wrong with a picture in which Nubret, Robinson, Fox, Padilla and others never won even once collectively, while Haney & Yates have 1.5 decades of wins. The winners were not better than the losers in this case; the reverse was often true, which is why Haney looked up to Robinson.

There's no viable way to repudiate this so i'm not going to bother answering any further excuses for why these travesties happened.
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« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2006, 03:22:09 PM »

I've made my points. It's like explaining gravity, rather obvious and gets old. Smiley

One can see clearly that there's something wrong with a picture in which Nubret, Robinson, Fox, Padilla and others never won even once collectively, while Haney & Yates have 1.5 decades of wins. The winners were not better than the losers in this case; the reverse was often true, which is why Haney looked up to Robinson.

There's no viable way to repudiate this so i'm not going to bother answering any further excuses for why these travesties happened.

now show me where nubret got ripped off against zane or columbu?
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pumpster
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« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2006, 03:51:40 PM »

now show me where nubret got ripped off against zane or columbu?
"Beast" reduced to a one-sentence retort.  Grin

I forgot, there's one other thing..


OWNED... Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2006, 03:19:08 AM »

"Beast" reduced to a one-sentence retort.  Grin

I forgot, there's one other thing..


OWNED... Grin Grin Grin

ha ha, see, i knew you would avoid that one too because you know very well that you can't name a specific occasion. why? because there isn't a specific occasion. Grin

you've been rambling on and on about allegations of some major wieder political conspiracy for ages on these boards, but like everything else, when you are called to back up your claims you avoid the question or refuse to answer. basically, you run and hide.

i mean, you've already been forced to back down on the arnold comparison so i kind of expected you to avoid this question. the funny thing is that you can't even give me a specific occasion where serge was ripped off against zane or columbu, yet you've been droning on about it for years.

ahh, what the heack, i'll put the question to you again. i like watching you squirm. Grin

now show me where nubret got ripped off against zane or columbu?
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pumpster
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« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2006, 03:28:58 AM »

Let me say it again, since he's reduced to nonsensical rhetoric that no one cares about..


OWNED... Grin... Grin... Grin
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