ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!

[Bluto]

Thank god he has it all figured out for the rest of us.

well the majority doesnt train the way you propose they should, and their results are real.

so that's clear evidence in your face. now your response to that is "well if they did they would look even better" (even arnold!) but that's one lame remark, one can ALWAYS say that.

[Cap]

Even the guys that do HIT justify more sets than Mentzer called for.  Yates, Dugdale, Labarada all did more because they know they needed to, to some extent.

[pumpster]

well the majority doesnt train the way you propose they should, and their results are real.

so that's clear evidence in your face. now your response to that is "well if they did they would look even better" (even arnold!) but that's one lame remark, one can ALWAYS say that.

I haven't proposed a specific way. Wrong again.

As far as Schwarzenegger, it's clear from Oliva and others that improvement was made. That doesn't mean the program was better than others, but would've been worth using to supplement what was already achieved. There's strong evidence to anyone with an open mind, which means excluding Bluto who already figured out all training issues.

[Bluto]

metzer said that 14 days rest stuff at the end when he was kinda nuts, I wouldn't look to much into what he was preaching the last few years he was alive.

7 days, 10 days, 14 days or not - the formula is still the same - the more intense, the bigger need for rest, the bigger the rest the less days you can work your body and the less you work your body the less chances to build muscle.

UNLESS of course you can build more muscles by working your muscles every 7th, 10th or 14th day than every OTHER  day.

which i do not believe.
especially since that hardcore approach sooner or later will cause you injuries, problems with your joints, fucking up your immune system making you sick etc which will set you back even MORE days in a year.

so do the math.

[pumpster]

7 days, 10 days, 14 days or not - the formula is still the same - the more intense, the bigger need for rest, the bigger the rest the less days you can work your body and the less you work your body the less chances to build muscle.

UNLESS of course you can build more muscles by working your muscles every 7th, 10th or 14th day than every OTHER  day.

which i do not believe.
especially since that hardcore approach sooner or later will cause you injuries, problems with your joints, fucking up your immune system making you sick etc which will set you back even MORE days in a year.

so do the math.

FYI trying to reason with the closed-minded is pointless.

[davie]

so what there can be a number of reasons you were stuck on the same weights.
if youre gonna go to failure all the time you need a lot of rest and because you're resting a lot you dont hit the gym as often as you could.

compare a volume training approach where you work your whole body twice or maybe even three times in a week with just once every week or every 10 days.
then your hit approach much produce 2-3 times the result to compare.

Actually iv done 2 times a week and 3 with volume, but after an hour of endless sets high or low reps the body gets v run down and tired.

I train each body part once every 7 days. But ur wrong in as much as u can train with sum variations of HIT more than once a week e.g. arthur jones 3 times a week program as followed by the likes of sergio and viator and franco (the highest profile users i know of).

davie

[pumpster]

Actually iv done 2 times a week and 3 with volume, but after an hour of endless sets high or low reps the body gets v run down and tired.

I train each body part once every 7 days. But ur wrong in as much as u can train with sum variations of HIT more than once a week e.g. arthur jones 3 times a week program as followed by the likes of sergio and viator and franco (the highest profile users i know of).

davie

The main reason the CNS system can get down is too many sets IMO. That fatigues the body without providing any benefits, because it's essentially endurance training. The kind of exhaustion one gets from long-distance running.

[Bluto]

I haven't proposed a specific way. Wrong again.

As far as Schwarzenegger, it's clear from Oliva and others that improvement was made. That doesn't mean the program was better than others, but would've been worth using to supplement what was already achieved. There's strong evidence to anyone with an open mind, which means excluding Bluto who already figured out all training issues.

i have an open mind. when was the last time you had someone preach about working more volume and less intensity? or working your whole body two or even 3 times a week? youre the one that is bitching about open minds and at the same time looking down on everyone else and think you know everything, you had this attitude since day one when you started to give advice on the training forum (and everybody there hated you, because they couldnt stand your attitude,)

ever wonder why you get into fights with everybody on getbig and dont get along with anyone? let me guess, it's everybody elses fault huh?

i bet you're the same in real life and have no friends and get no respect because people cant stand to be around you.

[pumpster]

i have an open mind. when was the last time you had someone preach about working more volume and less intensity? or working your whole body two or even 3 times a week? youre the one that is bitching about open minds and at the same time looking down on everyone else and think you know everything, you had this attitude since day one when you started to give advice on the training forum (and everybody there hated you, because they couldnt stand your attitude,)

ever wonder why you get into fights with everybody on getbig and dont get along with anyone? let me guess, it's everybody elses fault huh?

i bet you're the same in real life and have no friends and get no respect because people cant stand to be around you.

Hit a nerve; he can't answer anything.

[Bluto]

Actually iv done 2 times a week and 3 with volume, but after an hour of endless sets high or low reps the body gets v run down and tired.

I train each body part once every 7 days. But ur wrong in as much as u can train with sum variations of HIT more than once a week e.g. arthur jones 3 times a week program as followed by the likes of sergio and viator and franco (the highest profile users i know of).

davie

if you got run down and tired it was probably because of going to failure, you cant have that workload and go to failure all the time.

[Bluto]

The main reason the CNS system can get down is too many sets IMO. That fatigues the body without providing any benefits, because it's essentially endurance training. The kind of exhaustion one gets from long-distance running.

the main reason is failure. when stopping before failure you dont fry the cns as hard.

[Bluto]

FYI trying to reason with the closed-minded is pointless.

good answer. when someone disagree with you their closed minded? there you go again with your "i know best"-attitude that got you nowhere in life so far and fucked up every single social relation you ever had with anyone, ever.

you're one sad person.

you cant even get respect on a message board, let alone in real life.

[davie]

if you got run down and tired it was probably because of going to failure, you cant have that workload and go to failure all the time.

When doing volume i never went to failure as thats stupid. It was hours in the gym that burned me out as it will anyone.

Also think there more chance getting injured wen u work with alot of volume and ur hole body gets tired and form can slip - leading to injury!!

I dont know wer all this macho macho man rubbish is comeing from as it isnt helping to back up facts or make points any less stupid.

davie

[pumpster]

good answer. when someone disagree with you their closed minded? there you go again with your "i know best"-attitude that got you nowhere in life so far and fucked up every single social relation you ever had with anyone, ever.

you're one sad person.

you cant even get respect on a message board, let alone in real life.

You are close-minded and a blockhead. Let's be clear on that. You already know everything and keep telling us that over and over again, like a broken record. You're boring and especially uninteresting in your constant screams for attention that almost never have anything to do with the thread.

[Bluto]

When doing volume i never went to failure as thats stupid. It was hours in the gym that burned me out as it will anyone.

Also think there more chance getting injured wen u work with alot of volume and ur hole body gets tired and form can slip - leading to injury!!

I dont know wer all this macho macho man rubbish is comeing from as it isnt helping to back up facts or make points any less stupid.

davie

try cutting the gym time in half. no need to be there for hours.

[pumpster]

When doing volume i never went to failure as thats stupid. It was hours in the gym that burned me out as it will anyone.

Also think there more chance getting injured wen u work with alot of volume and ur hole body gets tired and form can slip - leading to injury!!

I dont know wer all this macho macho man rubbish is comeing from as it isnt helping to back up facts or make points any less stupid.

davie

Exactly; the biggest factor in wearing down the CNS is long workouts most closely associated with high volume.

[Bluto]

You are close-minded and a blockhead. Let's be clear on that. You already know everything and keep telling us that over and over again, like a broken record. You're boring and especially uninteresting in your constant screams for attention.

i'd say im the opposite, always willing to discuss and debate. my thoughts on training displayed here hasnt been posted before, so they can hardly be a broken record.
as for attention i dont get any more attention than anyone else in this thread, we all want our respective posts to get attention thats the reason we post them.

you make no sense.

[pumpster]

you make no sense.

Coming from "Bluto" this is a back-handed complement.

[davie]

try cutting the gym time in half. no need to be there for hours.

I have done that before aswell. i did and do not feel that is the way to train in order to progress in strength!! Progressing in strength is vitally importsnt, the size u gain as an afetr effect will come from ur diet and rest/recovery!!

I find myself profressing well in strength now, instead of thinking i have to perform endless sets for each muscle group, i am more focused on the job at hand kowing that for me to have a good workout, i must perform that short v intense set to its fullest (same for all HIT trainers wether u use extended sets, pre-exhaust or watever), or leave the gym feeling like the workout was unsuccessful. I have one chance to beat last weeks rep total, or one chance to prove that i can handle this new heavier weight i am using for the 1st time!!

davie

[realkarateblackbelt]

HIT is for pussys. 1 set per exercise is far easy than the marathon workouts Arnold did. Arnold is greater than Mentzer so what does that tell you? HIT isn't any better.

[natural al]

HIT is for pussys. 1 set per exercise is far easy than the marathon workouts Arnold did. Arnold is greater than Mentzer so what does that tell you? HIT isn't any better.

speak in more general terms, you're arguement as stated is so compelling.....tell me more.

[realkarateblackbelt]

speak in more general terms, you're arguement as stated is so compelling.....tell me more.

There's nothing more to it. HIT hasn't produced any champion bodybuilders. It's like Doctor Phil telling people how to lose weight.

[natural al]

There's nothing more to it. HIT hasn't produced any champion bodybuilders. It's like Doctor Phil telling people how to lose weight.

what about guys who used HIT variations like Dorian?  Henry?  Dugdale?  Labrada? Viator?

nobody is saying that one set per bodypart will do anything what we're saying is there are variations that can produce results.

[realkarateblackbelt]

what about guys who used HIT variations like Dorian?  Henry?  Dugdale?  Labrada? Viator?

nobody is saying that one set per bodypart will do anything what we're saying is there are variations that can produce results.

So both systems work.

It's a matter of personal preference.

As I already stated.

End. Discussion.

[natural al]

So both systems work.

It's a matter of personal preference.

As I already stated.

End. Discussion.

when did you say that?  You don't like the discussion then stay out of the thread.  You've added nothing so far so the chances of you doing anything worthwhile are pretty slim.  This is a decent thread stop being a dick sit back and maybe you'll learn something.