Author Topic: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?  (Read 57977 times)

myseone

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Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« on: December 23, 2006, 08:19:04 PM »
Here are the more famous people who have used H.I.T. methodology, add to this thousands of others that have found great success with brief and brutal training methods.

the proof is in the pudding...

Bluto

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2006, 08:20:37 PM »
theyre nowhere. maybe they got injured along the way.
Z

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2006, 08:21:36 PM »
more

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2006, 08:23:06 PM »
more

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2006, 08:24:24 PM »
more

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2006, 08:28:37 PM »
and more, the point is that HIT has been used successfully by many bodybuilders with out injury (except Yates)...and should be considered a legitimate method of training.

It's important to note that Mike Mentzer developed his own form of HIT called Heavy Duty.



Dan-O

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2006, 12:11:02 AM »
Lee Labrada was another HIT proponent.


Figo

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2006, 12:20:31 AM »
Lee Labrada was another HIT proponent.



Not HIT as advocated by Jones, Mentzer, Yates and Darden, but a form of abbreviated training, that seemed a blend of volume and heavy-duty.

king

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2006, 12:20:57 AM »
myseone do you use hit?

i've browed through you website a bit but still dont know

MisterMagoo

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2006, 12:26:08 AM »
lets see their actual lifting schedules first. yates was supposedly HIT but in blood and guts he was doing a 2-on 2-off schedule (too high frequency for HIT), and he pyramided everything up to a heaviest set. hell that's how ronnie lifts if you ignore the few pump-out sets he'll do on a few lifts.

and most of those guys didn't turn to HIT until way late in their careers. on mentzer's end he was evolving his theory of how it should work as he went. it wasn't until he was almost finished that he was down to 2-3 workouts a week that were so short.

if you loosen the definition of HIT to be "any training that involves working up to a max effort set" then if you pyramid you do HIT, and then lots of people do. but i'd bet most anything that IF any of those guys actually did the 2-3 workouts a week that never go over 45 minutes, they built themselves on volume and later switched.

what:

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2006, 12:32:07 AM »
 ;D

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2006, 08:19:29 AM »
I was going to put Labrada up, but did'nt because he's some where in the middle of HIT and volume methods; he's still closer to HIT.




Not HIT as advocated by Jones, Mentzer, Yates and Darden, but a form of abbreviated training, that seemed a blend of volume and heavy-duty.

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2006, 08:32:06 AM »
I hear you,

There is a lot of confusion regarding what HIT is, many people confuse what Mentzer was doing later on for HIT taught by Art Jones. Jones tended to advocate higher sets for muscle groups, particualry when a muscle group was being specialized on, up to 5-6 sets. HIT means...brief, brutal, intense, to failure training done infrequently.

If you read Yates original book "Blood and Guts" you'll see that he was heavily influenced by Arthur Jones, Ellington Darden and Mentzer, as he committed a whole month to the study of their material before he started working out.

His first training program was a whole body three time a week program, 1 exercise per muscle group, 3 sets per exercise, definitely HIT training (compare to Art Jones Nautillus Bulletins).

Yates then used a split program alternating legs and arms with torso muscles, 3 times a week alternating, he used this program to build most of his mass, real basic, about 5 sets for big muscles and about 2-3 for smaller muscle groups, to failure; still definitely HIT.

Yates then went to a 3 way split, then eventually a 4 way split, to specialize on more muscle groups and perfect his form. The bulk of his muscle was built with the infrequent training methods, aka. HIT; similiar to what Mentzer was orignially doing.

Despite his hybrid training style Yates can still be regarded as more HIT than not. His training is not the same as Colemans.


lets see their actual lifting schedules first. yates was supposedly HIT but in blood and guts he was doing a 2-on 2-off schedule (too high frequency for HIT), and he pyramided everything up to a heaviest set. hell that's how ronnie lifts if you ignore the few pump-out sets he'll do on a few lifts.

and most of those guys didn't turn to HIT until way late in their careers. on mentzer's end he was evolving his theory of how it should work as he went. it wasn't until he was almost finished that he was down to 2-3 workouts a week that were so short.

if you loosen the definition of HIT to be "any training that involves working up to a max effort set" then if you pyramid you do HIT, and then lots of people do. but i'd bet most anything that IF any of those guys actually did the 2-3 workouts a week that never go over 45 minutes, they built themselves on volume and later switched.

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2006, 08:47:33 AM »
I personally believe that there is much to learn from both HIT and HVT camps, and some one like Labrada or Yates modified the technique in the best way. I use a hybrid form myself currently but I have trained with pure HIT style at various points in my lifting career.

Right now I train about three times a week on non-consecutive days. Each workout takes about 30-35 minutes in length (this is not counting the stretching, 5 minutes of bike that I do before training)

I'll do a couple of warm up sets for my first exercise of a muscle group, to aclimate my body to the heavy work. I'll then set up three exercises for a muscle group. I'll perform the first one with drop sets, negatives, forced reps, etc.. then move to my next exercise immediately do the same there minus the warm up, then move to the next one and do the same thing minus the warm up. So it usually takes only 10-15 minutes to bust up a muscle group. I'll then rest 2 minutes warm up the next muscle group for a set or 2 then hit that.

I don't do many sets, for chest 2-3 warm up sets, then 3 work sets with drops total. For biceps 1 warm up set, 2 work sets total.

For the typical drug free advanced trainee this will work well, for the beginner and intermediate (those with less than 3 years of foundation training) I suggest a straight sets, 2 basic exercises for large muscles and 1 exercise for smaller muscle groups, 1-2 warm ups for each movement, then 1-2 work sets per exercise; training primarily to build strength in the squat, deadlift, chin, dip, chest press, row, and overhead press. Married with rest days, lots of nutritous food, intensity this will make anyone bigger....of course how big you eventually get depends upon your genetics and discipline.


Lawrence


myseone do you use hit?

i've browed through you website a bit but still dont know

alexxx

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2006, 08:57:04 AM »
All those "champs" where built on volume training after they started hit it worked for a little while because it allowed them to recover.

Nowadays the people that do hit are just lazy and want a shortcut but they will not get optimum results training that way.
just push some weight!

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2006, 09:13:09 AM »
You don't know your history, read and ask those men you'll learn. It would be good to put you through an HIT work out I think that you'd change your opinion.


All those "champs" where built on volume training after they started hit it worked for a little while because it allowed them to recover.

Nowadays the people that do hit are just lazy and want a shortcut but they will not get optimum results training that way.

The Squadfather

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2006, 09:14:38 AM »
All those "champs" where built on volume training after they started hit it worked for a little while because it allowed them to recover.

Nowadays the people that do hit are just lazy and want a shortcut but they will not get optimum results training that way.
you better watch out Alexxx, "myesone" squats 900 for 10 on the Smith Machine. ::)

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2006, 09:16:38 AM »
chuckle

you better watch out Alexxx, "myesone" squats 900 for 10 on the Smith Machine. ::)

alexxx

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2006, 09:16:55 AM »
you better watch out Alexxx, "myesone" squats 900 for 10 on the Smith Machine. ::)

LMAO!! You're not serious are you?
just push some weight!

alexxx

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2006, 09:17:49 AM »
You don't know your history, read and ask those men you'll learn. It would be good to put you through an HIT work out I think that you'd change your opinion.



Sure I would do your hit workout and then do it 10 more times so that I could get some decent stimulation.
just push some weight!

The Squadfather

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2006, 09:17:54 AM »
LMAO!! You're not serious are you?
hahahaha, that's what he claims, he also claims to shoulder press 405 for 10 on the Smith as well, looks like we've got another Matt Duvall on board. ::)

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2006, 09:21:57 AM »
What state do you live in? If you were close to NYC I'd put you through a leg work out.


Sure I would do your hit workout and then do it 10 more times so that I could get some decent stimulation.

alexxx

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2006, 09:26:23 AM »
hahahaha, that's what he claims, he also claims to shoulder press 405 for 10 on the Smith as well, looks like we've got another Matt Duvall on board. ::)

Oh man you gotta love those guys that use the smith machine! haha funniest thing! I was training with another guy when I was 16 years old and he would get me to do 225 pound closegrip benches on the smith. Thing is I could probably barely get that with 135 pounds free weight!

What state do you live in? If you were close to NYC I'd put you through a leg work out.

I am in montreal my little friend. If I ever pass by there I will make sure to pm me and own you in the gym.
just push some weight!

The Squadfather

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2006, 09:28:51 AM »
Oh man you gotta love those guys that use the smith machine! haha funniest thing! I was training with another guy when I was 16 years old and he would get me to do 225 pound closegrip benches on the smith. Thing is I could probably barely get that with 135 pounds free weight!

I am in montreal my little friend. If I ever pass by there I will make sure to pm me and own you in the gym.
hahahaha, exactly, the funny thing is that he never challenges it when i call him on his claims, he's either full of shit or he's way stronger than Ronnie Coleman. ::)

alexxx

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2006, 09:30:04 AM »
hahahaha, exactly, the funny thing is that he never challenges it when i call him on his claims, he's either full of shit or he's way stronger than Ronnie Coleman. ::)

hmmm maybe he does it kamali style??
just push some weight!