Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?

[pumpster]

not backpeddling..im not sure even what your discussing now. sprinters run..they dont run to failure. they run fast and?? i think everyone understand if a sprinter wants to run fast he has to do the same in training and not run marathons. but still going to failure isnt necessary for muscle building. simple as that.

No, you're missing it. The core part of sprint training after warmup is 100% effort sprints-they're not stopping before maximum effort is expended, in fact they're doing everything possible to go beyond 100%.

Before and after those sprints, there will be other sprints at a percentage of full effort, almost like pyramid sets in weight training.

[slaveboy1980]

ok we are getting side tracked here...they arent training to failure or total exhaustion or they would be spent fairly quickly and wouldnt be able to train several hours per day (which they do). to get back to bodybuilding lifting to failure isnt necessary to induce growth. not saying that failure training doenst induce growth as it does just saying it smarter no to train to failure as it keeps the cns fresh and allows you to train more often and with more volume. its like widening the opening of a bottle..you can get more water in if you have a wider opening. if you crush the cns with prolonged failure training you will have a real small bottle opening and thus slow the muscle building process. but yes going to failure during planned periods can be good..to push strenght up and "shock" (dont like that expression so much) muscles..but majority of training should be non failure training.

[Bluto]

Clueless to the reality that training athletically does in fact impart a more athletic look.

youre looking for an athletic look? so people can think you actually participate in sports, when in reality all you do is work to failure like any other gym member 

[Bluto]

There are a shitload of things, exactly-and the smart ones (not Bluto, obviously) address all of them to 100% potential. Training until the muscle submits is part of that; doing otherwise falls short of 100% and is lazy.

training until muscle submits is not as productive.
so all you're left with is your washed out 'well it's athletic- bullshit substitute you need because you dont participate in any real sports and dont compete.

[Bluto]

pumpster is going to failure on and all out balls to the wall set for 8 reps 3 times per week on his bowflex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

all bow down to the ATHLETE pumpster!!!!!!!

i bet pumpster psyche himself up to the rocky 3 soundtrack eye of the tiger and grunts and growls to show what a MAN he is!!!!!!!!!

GRRRRR!!

what an ANIMAL!!!!!!!!!
 
he dont stop anywhere near failure! no way! he goes THROUGH THE PAIN BARRIER!!!!!!!

pain is just weakness leaving the body !!!!!!!!!

ghahahahah

[slaveboy1980]

i think he changed his goals when he realized working to failure doesnt work so he settled for trying to achieve an "athletic" look instead of adding mass (avoiding failure.). i believe pumpster prefers the famous macho train to failure athletic look. as you can see his results are stunning:

[SteelePegasus]

youre looking for an athletic look? so people can think you actually participate in sports, when in reality all you do is work to failure like any other gym member 

lol, he spends all day in the gym lifting weights to look like he doesn't spend all day in the gym lifting weights

classic

[MisterMagoo]

lol, he spends all day in the gym lifting weights to look like he doesn't spend all day in the gym lifting weights

classic

he spends no time in the gym, haven't heard? his 410 pound bench presses on the bowflex give him that athletic look! 

[Bluto]

pumpster is a freakin' weirdo

[pumpster]

pumpster is a freakin' weirdo

This from a nerd who doesn't like Venice, the place all the greats hung out and loved. haahahahahaahahah

I'm seeing a pattern in these post-lots of the guys here really have nothing of value to say, resort to lame posts about nothing. BORING.

[pumpster]

i think he changed his goals when he realized working to failure doesnt work so he settled for trying to achieve an "athletic" look instead of adding mass (avoiding failure.). i believe pumpster prefers the famous macho train to failure athletic look. as you can see his results are stunning:

This is slave's way of admitting that he has nothing of value to share, desperately resorts to kid's stuff. hahaahahahahah

[pumpster]

ok we are getting side tracked here...they arent training to failure or total exhaustion or they would be spent fairly quickly and wouldnt be able to train several hours per day (which they do). to get back to bodybuilding lifting to failure isnt necessary to induce growth. not saying that failure training doenst induce growth as it does just saying it smarter no to train to failure as it keeps the cns fresh and allows you to train more often and with more volume. its like widening the opening of a bottle..you can get more water in if you have a wider opening. if you crush the cns with prolonged failure training you will have a real small bottle opening and thus slow the muscle building process. but yes going to failure during planned periods can be good..to push strenght up and "shock" (dont like that expression so much) muscles..but majority of training should be non failure training.

"Slave" proving that his grammatical construction's as weak as his poor logic. I smell GED with this boring, long-winded run-on sentence from our HS grad here!

[Bluto]

This from a nerd who doesn't like Venice, the place all the greats hung out and loved. haahahahahaahahah

I'm seeing a pattern in these post-lots of the guys here really have nothing of value to say, resort to lame posts about nothing. BORING.

as we know from the thread about venice, turned out you were about the ONLY one who liked it.
you fit the scene perfectly there. you're one of the bums. i bet you found your precious bowflex in a garbage can

[oldtimer1]

Joe Means and Sergio Oliva are examples of HIT?  Anyone who has seen Sergio train prior and after his very brief involvement with Nautilus has seen him train with volume and plenty of it.  Joe Means was interviewed at his peak by Bill Reynolds stating his volume tri set routine.  Just because he posed for pictures in a Darden book and trained for awhile with pure Nautilus dosn't mean he's is the poster boy for HIT.  That was the pattern back in the day for you guys that weren't born back then.  Find an established champ who uses volume.  Have him train on machines with HIT. Then claim responsibility for the champ's success.  Viator looked his best in the late 80's when he was using volume.  He was ripped and big.  I know of one guy who trained in the same gym as Mentzer in his prime say he saw him using a lot more sets than what he wrote about in the magazines.  Maybe they were warm ups sets and not working sets?  I don't know.

Now Yates, Dugdale, and Labrada are true HIT type trainers. 

For the record I train with low sets and to failure.  I have no agenda to knock HIT.  I use it.

[Hedgehog]

I personally believe that there is much to learn from both HIT and HVT camps, and some one like Labrada or Yates modified the technique in the best way. I use a hybrid form myself currently but I have trained with pure HIT style at various points in my lifting career.

Right now I train about three times a week on non-consecutive days. Each workout takes about 30-35 minutes in length (this is not counting the stretching, 5 minutes of bike that I do before training)

I'll do a couple of warm up sets for my first exercise of a muscle group, to aclimate my body to the heavy work. I'll then set up three exercises for a muscle group. I'll perform the first one with drop sets, negatives, forced reps, etc.. then move to my next exercise immediately do the same there minus the warm up, then move to the next one and do the same thing minus the warm up. So it usually takes only 10-15 minutes to bust up a muscle group. I'll then rest 2 minutes warm up the next muscle group for a set or 2 then hit that.

I don't do many sets, for chest 2-3 warm up sets, then 3 work sets with drops total. For biceps 1 warm up set, 2 work sets total.

For the typical drug free advanced trainee this will work well, for the beginner and intermediate (those with less than 3 years of foundation training) I suggest a straight sets, 2 basic exercises for large muscles and 1 exercise for smaller muscle groups, 1-2 warm ups for each movement, then 1-2 work sets per exercise; training primarily to build strength in the squat, deadlift, chin, dip, chest press, row, and overhead press. Married with rest days, lots of nutritous food, intensity this will make anyone bigger....of course how big you eventually get depends upon your genetics and discipline.


Lawrence

I don't understand the limited rest between sets.

Why not rest until the whole muscle is able to perform again? IMO, that makes more sense than rushing between sets.

Few sets, long rests, that's what I like.

-Hedge

[IceCold]

No, you're missing it. The core part of sprint training after warmup is 100% effort sprints-they're not stopping before maximum effort is expended, in fact they're doing everything possible to go beyond 100%.

Before and after those sprints, there will be other sprints at a percentage of full effort, almost like pyramid sets in weight training.

do you pyramid the sets for your monsterous bowflex workouts?

[TheDoctor]

Dorian stated on one of his videos on youtube that he trained 3 and half to 4 hours a week.I think this was on a clip on youtube on Blood and Guts.

[bmacsys]

I hear you,

There is a lot of confusion regarding what HIT is, many people confuse what Mentzer was doing later on for HIT taught by Art Jones. Jones tended to advocate higher sets for muscle groups, particualry when a muscle group was being specialized on, up to 5-6 sets. HIT means...brief, brutal, intense, to failure training done infrequently.

Wrong, if you read Arthur Jones Nautilus Bulletins he NEVER advocated more than two sets per exercize.

[natural al]

Wrong, if you read Arthur Jones Nautilus Bulletins he NEVER advocated more than two sets per exercize.

is there a website with these bulletins?

[D_1000]

that' why you rest more.....

Exactly. Based on my own experience, HIT or modified HIT training is the better option for me. When I started back in the day, I went with the 12-16 sets for biceps etc. volume approach. However, I noticed my greatest growth spurts every time I dropped the volume and increased my rest.

Over the years I have modified the training as I've seen fit. At times, I have also incorporated the Lee Labrada-style slow cycling of rep ranges, but these days I go with 8-12 reps without any specific low/medium/high rep periods.

During this and the past week, my chest and back got maybe four sets to failure, legs (quads and hams) a total of six, triceps and biceps two each, and shoulders and calves get a few each. Always a good warm-up first pyramiding e.g. on the first chest exercise.

This is just my opinion and my approach, which has worked better for me.

[ARNIE1947]

yatews

[ARNIE1947]

the guru

[YngiweRhoads]

the guru

Wow, Mower sure has aged.

Put on a bit o' muscle though.

[myseone]

I don't understand the limited rest between sets.

Why not rest until the whole muscle is able to perform again? IMO, that makes more sense than rushing between sets.

Few sets, long rests, that's what I like.

-Hedge

I was experimenting with minimal rest between sets, seeing what the result would be. It worked well in terms of increasing my anaerobic endurance, mental toughness, and was a fun way to train.

I should have shared that I rotate through a variety of HIT type training styles, along with a moderate volume style. The reason being that change can produce new results, it also helps counteract boredom.

My most effective schedule involves longer rest in between each high intensity set similar in style to what Yates and Mentzer [what he use to advocate in the 80's] used with a greater use of intensifying tech [forced reps, rest pause, drops, forced negatives, etc.]

[myseone]

Wrong, if you read Arthur Jones Nautilus Bulletins he NEVER advocated more than two sets per exercize.

I have read them, I read them every now and then. Jones training understanding changed over time, he actually started with higher volume per exercise [3-4 sets] and adjusted it over time eventually experimenting with lower volume. Over time he felt that less exercise was all that was needed, eventually coming to the conclusion that 1 set of 8 exercises done twice a week was what most people needed.

When Franco visited his gym in Deland, Florida he had Franco complete a supersetting giant set in which Franco alternated Nautilus curls with Nautilus extensions to failure for 5 sets per movement. Jones wasn't as rigid as many other HIT advocates and seemed to be open experimentation.