Notes from a reformed HITer

[Bluto]

 

[Figo]

Fascinating...

[Bluto]

click on the filenames to enlarge the pictures 

[figgs]

Hmm I wonder why HIT didn't work for that guy. But I just couldn't bring myself to train like that. That sounds easy. I like hard.

I'll stick with HIT until I get the full effects. So far so good.

Thanks

[IceCold]

i think most people initially get results when they switch to an HIT program.

for a while they were doing a volume thing, and the HIT is a new shock.

ultimately, i think they will go back to volume. 

especially something like max ot.

2 sets of 4-6 reps.

watch someone do that for laterals, leg extentions, or something else, and it just doesnt look right and seem right.  like something is missing. 

besides, i've yet to see a big guy or something with good physique doing any time of HIT workout. 

[slaveboy1980]

HIT is a sect like organization. often they go from one extreme to another, without realizing that there exists another road that doesnt involve high volume failure training nor low volume failure training..instead it involves high-medium (varied depending on lifters experience and periodized) volume non failure training and often at accelerated training frequency (which now is a possibility thanks to the cessation of frying the cns)

[brianX]

I totally agree with what he says. The guy who does 5 sets of 5 is training with a lot more "intensity" than the guy who does one set to failure. Even if you aren't going to complete muscle failure on every set, the cumulative effect of those 5 sets is still going to be greater than that one set to failure.

The great drug-free lifters such as John Grimek, George Eiferman, and Reg Park all used high volume. These guys would've laughed at anyone who thought a one set workout was "intense".

[slaveboy1980]

I totally agree with what he says. The guy who does 5 sets of 5 is training with a lot more "intensity" than the guy who does one set to failure. Even if you aren't going to complete muscle failure on every set, the cumulative effect of those 5 sets is still going to be greater than that one set to failure.


exactemondo!!!!

[The Squadfather]

I totally agree with what he says. The guy who does 5 sets of 5 is training with a lot more "intensity" than the guy who does one set to failure. Even if you aren't going to complete muscle failure on every set, the cumulative effect of those 5 sets is still going to be greater than that one set to failure.

The great drug-free lifters such as John Grimek, George Eiferman, and Reg Park all used high volume. These guys would've laughed at anyone who thought a one set workout was "intense".

but don't you think "figgs" is training intensely when he "pre exhausts" his massive delts with 25lb. lateral raises before his main set of 40lb. db presses, Brian?

[brianX]

Yes, it must take a lot of balls to do one set of lat pulldowns. I don't know how figgs can manage these brutal workouts.

[The Squadfather]

Yes, it must take a lot of balls to do one set of lat pulldowns. I don't know how figgs can manage these brutal workouts.

hahahaha, i love how when these clowns aren't getting results from one set every two months they cut back even further, hahahaha, one set every six months.

[IceCold]

I totally agree with what he says. The guy who does 5 sets of 5 is training with a lot more "intensity" than the guy who does one set to failure. Even if you aren't going to complete muscle failure on every set, the cumulative effect of those 5 sets is still going to be greater than that one set to failure.

The great drug-free lifters such as John Grimek, George Eiferman, and Reg Park all used high volume. These guys would've laughed at anyone who thought a one set workout was "intense".

great point.

[The Squadfather]

Thighs:

Total training time- 5 minutes

Quads:
Leg extensions- 170 x 9
Leg press machine- 330 x 8...390 x 2

Hams:
Lying leg curls- 125 x 7

Rating- 9 out of 10

Great workout! I was prepared for the burn during those leg extensions after my last leg workout. Again, the tempo was 6 seconds up, hold for 3, and 6 seconds down. Just unbelievable.

The leg presses were great. I was going nowhere with the first weight, which was 3 plates shy of full stack on the machine, so I upped the weight to full stack. My first rep was hard as hell! I barely made it without a spot! And my second was even worse! I went for a third but was shot. Nothing left. I collapsed, completely satisfied with my quad workout.

Hams was an intense one set. Nothing compared to quads but excellent for a ham workout.

I would have given myself a rating of 10 if I didn't have to change the weight during leg presses.

hahahaha, what a beast!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheAnimal]

LOL we all go through that figgs but repeat it 3-5 times(sets)

[The Squadfather]

LOL we all go through that figgs but repeat it 3-5 times(sets)

hahahaha, i SQUAT 185 lbs. more than he LEG PRESSES and do three times as many sets, i guess i'm overtraining.

[Bluto]

I like to hear pumpster reporting on his balls to the wall, all out, high intensity BOWFLEX sessions!

[figgs]

I already know that you know already, sarcasm, just how intense my workouts are and how fucking hard I push myself, but you continue to show nothing but disrespect towards me. You're a regular to my HIT log so don't give me any of that shit.

Just so you and the others can understand just how fucking hard I train, read this detailed version of that leg workout you posted for negative scrutiny.

I started with one set of leg extensions. I used half the stack, although before HIT I was easily doing the full stack even at the end of my quad workouts. But now that's impossible since my reps are 6 seconds up, 3 second hold and 6 seconds down. No pause at the bottom, no letting the weight drop to full rest, I just go right back up from the bottom with that same controlled manner. And I do this until I'm screaming to get my last reps up with as little help as possible. Anything to get that rep up to the fully contracted position!! "Higher!", I tell myself! "All the way!" And when I reach it, I slowly lower again and then my training partner assists me until I've reached positive, static and negative failure. That set was 9 reps long. The 4th started burning and it just got worse and worse. Certainly almost anyone would have given up before failure, but not me. I kept going and going, reaching for anything to motivate me to bear through the pain! And it worked! I reached failure, but to my heartache, I had leg presses to do! And as soon as possible!

I then IMMEDIATELY positioned myself on the leg press and did slow, deep reps. About 8 second long reps. And the pain kicks in from the very start. There's no fucking around here and now, it's time to get serious. And if I thought those leg extensions were bad enough, I'm in for a real shock. I get going and keep pressing, until I have to cheat, but just a little bit! I just cheat with the tips of my fingers at first until I've reached the point where I can definetely not complete another rep unless I'm pushing my knees full force!

And when I'm done, WOW! What a feeling! I love doing bodyweight squats and lunges to see how disabled I've become. When I do a squat or lunge I always collapse hahahaha.

And if you think you can train like that, sarcasm, congratulations. You have something most others don't, which is the power to wield your conscious mind, using it to fight through the pain.

[davie]

To be fair, there are plenty of articles on the net that have sum guy saying,

"I trained with volume for years with little or not results, then i changed to HIT style workouts and im always growing."

So the article doesnt prove anything.

davie

[DOGGCRAPP]

I personally try to stay away from any arguments about "other peoples training"....Im more of a "to each his own" mindset. But in my own personal opinion, I completely disagree with alot of the HIT mentality (from its cultlike status with its followers, to its nongive to change cemented in stone rules, to its psychotic "your going to overtrain" pandemonium)
   And nothing pisses me off more than to see "holier than thou" HIT'ers try to throw an umbrella over any routine or method they deem low set. Alot of these guys try to throw my methods in with their HIT circle and Im sorry but I completely disagree with alot of what HIT guys believe in + I do alot more sets than people think, I just dont count warmups like most people do. Secondly I do in two workouts in 8 days what pretty much everyone else is doing in one workout---thats the major difference between me and volume guys.
    A real strong advanced guy who I train will do legs something like this (weights hypothetical)

calf leg press
90x20
180x12
250x6
325x10<---and i only count this all out work set (though some people will say they did 4 sets)

Hams
lying leg curl
40x24
80x12
120x8
170x22 rest paused (12+7+5)

Stiff legged deads extreme stretches
135x8-12 (holding stretch for count of 10-15

Quads
warmup set on leg press with 180 for 20 (deep/stretch/warmup knees)

adductor machine (3 progressive warmups and then one all out rest pause set)
Why? Check the Sartorius muscle on Platz below and youll see why I have alot of my advanced guys do this machine.

Squats
135x12
225x10
315x8
405x6
465x all out war for 9 reps
(rest)
275x all out war for 20 reps (widowmaker)

(extreme stretch quads)

My mistake is I count that as 2 all out worksets for quads, as I dont count warmups that someone has done 5000 times previously as sets like most people do. Most people up above would claim to have done 6 sets for quads, I dont get why anyone would be counting 135x12 if thats something youve done everytime you squatted the last 8 years of training

Four/Five days later this person would come in and do legs again with new calf, hamstring and quad (maybe hacks this time) exercises in the same setup as above. Most people train legs once a week, my guys train them 2x every 8 days and it you add it all up its probably close to the same workload as the once a week guys.....so yea I get pretty irritated when the HIT/Mentzer guys try to claim that they own everything under their umbrella. Does that mean Arnold owns everything under the volume umbrella? Jay Cutler, and all you guys arent doing your own thing but your under the Arnold volume training umbrella?


Again not to step on anyones toes, to each his own. The best way of training for most people is whatever method they most believe in. I just think like religion,  it (training) shouldnt be thrown into peoples faces unless they ask or inquire about it.

[240 is Back]

DC, good to see you posting here!

[DOGGCRAPP]

Yeah, but in general HIT-ers don't seem to think for themselves.

I wouldn't listen to you, nor any HIT author -- I wouldn't even take Strossen's advice 100% when I was doing his site and talking with him about it daily. Not as an offence, but simply because I like to hear ideas and choose the good of each idea for myself. Take some from here, some from there, etc...

and thats what Im saying "doing the method you most believe in" whether that be some guys method verbatim or like you suggested "bits and pieces of things you want to do that you threw together or developed yourself"....the bottom line is if you believe in what your doing.

The only thing I find a fallacy in that is if you are going to put down or applaud a certain distinct method then you should have the respect to follow that method exactly. I dont think it would be very fair if I took a combo of Garraeths, 240or busts, and Squadfathers workouts and did that for a year and then when I didnt get the gains I wanted I post "Garraeths methods didnt do jack for me" (how would I know it wasnt 240's or Squadfathers protocols that were the weak link?)

[DOGGCRAPP]

I believe in a certain way of doing things but its just one guys thoughts. I dont sell a book or webzine or anything like that. (I do train some bbers who want me to train them individually and I charge them because its a hell of alot of work manhour wise).   I'm not here to train anyone, dont want to push any DC methods upon anyone, I want people to decide for themselves how they want to train. 
    My post was just to let HITer's know that I dont think they hold the patent to anything they deem low volume just as I dont think everything that comes down the pike higher volume isnt directly derived from Arnolds Encyclopedia routine

[Bluto]

Mike Mentzer brown-noser no 1 - John Little got a book called "Max Contraction Training : The Scientifically Proven Program for Building Muscle Mass in Minimum Time" (yeah another one of those books that claims to be scientifically proven and the last word in bodybuilding) 

Check out this Amazon.com reviewer and what he has to say about it:

"My partner and I worked the routine religously for over one year. I have great documentation of every rep - how was the form, how many seconds was the hold and a message for the next workout to either increase poundage, time of hold or to hold steady for better form.
And yes, just as they claim, my strength on the static hold began to increase. As I say, it's well documented.
And the 1,000 pound mark finally arrived on the leg press, and 350 pounds on the trapezoid shoulder roll with the barbell...all the other routines had virtually doubled in the weight resistance area...
You'd think I was really building muscle wouldn't you? Well I wasn't.
And here's the flaw: The day I leg pressed the 1000 pounds I heard and felt a tear in my knee. Miniscus(sic)surgery in both knees occurred last week. I'm a mess, but mostly because I had to have rotator cuff surgery on July 6th.
You see what the authors fail to mention to anyone is that despite the muscles ability to statically hold heavier and heavier weights, there ain't nothin' going on to strengthen the tendons and cartilage and other "body parts secondary to the muscle." And they can give way as they did in my case.
In my opinion, we all have a limit to the endurance of those secondary parts that can be overwhelmed by the high weights lifted via static contraction.
I've sacrificed 3 of my 4 major joints to surgery caused by static contraction.
And lastly, when we shifted to regular lifting after dazzling the gym with our "big stacking the weights on show," we were weaklings. My static bench press had been 310# but my bench press was only 165#. "


Ouch! 

[Bast175]

I kept going and going, reaching for anything to motivate me to bear through the pain!

You have something most others don't, which is the power to wield your conscious mind, using it to fight through the pain.

hahah you're a pussy. 

I can do the slowest most strict reps and the pain is never that bad.   I tore ligaments squatting without even realizing I tore anything.   The real pain was after I got surgery and didn't take pain killers soon enough later that night.

[figgs]

Mike Mentzer brown-noser no 1 - John Little got a book called "Max Contraction Training : The Scientifically Proven Program for Building Muscle Mass in Minimum Time" (yeah another one of those books that claims to be scientifically proven and the last word in bodybuilding) 

Check out this Amazon.com reviewer and what he has to say about it:

"My partner and I worked the routine religously for over one year. I have great documentation of every rep - how was the form, how many seconds was the hold and a message for the next workout to either increase poundage, time of hold or to hold steady for better form.
And yes, just as they claim, my strength on the static hold began to increase. As I say, it's well documented.
And the 1,000 pound mark finally arrived on the leg press, and 350 pounds on the trapezoid shoulder roll with the barbell...all the other routines had virtually doubled in the weight resistance area...
You'd think I was really building muscle wouldn't you? Well I wasn't.
And here's the flaw: The day I leg pressed the 1000 pounds I heard and felt a tear in my knee. Miniscus(sic)surgery in both knees occurred last week. I'm a mess, but mostly because I had to have rotator cuff surgery on July 6th.
You see what the authors fail to mention to anyone is that despite the muscles ability to statically hold heavier and heavier weights, there ain't nothin' going on to strengthen the tendons and cartilage and other "body parts secondary to the muscle." And they can give way as they did in my case.
In my opinion, we all have a limit to the endurance of those secondary parts that can be overwhelmed by the high weights lifted via static contraction.
I've sacrificed 3 of my 4 major joints to surgery caused by static contraction.
And lastly, when we shifted to regular lifting after dazzling the gym with our "big stacking the weights on show," we were weaklings. My static bench press had been 310# but my bench press was only 165#. "


Ouch! 

That really sucks. I feel bad for that dude. Injuries SUCK!

I've been on HIT for a few weeks and have had no problems at all. I'm careful in listening to my body so that I prevent any possible injuries. The thing is to warm up thoroughly. The warm ups for HIT are very thorough. They really give me a pump because I do them so slowly (as slow as my working sets). I'm confident in them, but am not underestimating my risk.