Need tips plz! On 2nd cycle using Deca and Sustanon250

[shortstak]

My first cycle was a 12 wk cycle using just deca, one injection every week. The 1st week was one cc, weeks 2-10 were 2cc, 11 and 12 were 1.5 and then 1 again.
 Ive been off for one month taking 10 6-oxo pills a day.
I knew that Hcg shots, Nolvadex or clomid were highly recommended over 6OXO but I couldint find those in time.
 I do feel my natural test has risen off of the androgenic effects of the deca. My strength has not dropped dramatically even though I have lost about 4 lbs.
 My schedule for the next cycle consisting of Deca and Sustanon 250 will last 15 wks. Weeks 1-6 for the Deca injections will be 1.5cc every 5 days, then 2cc every 5 days for the rest of the cycle. As for the Sustanon250, I will keep the injections to 1.5 every 5 days throughout the entire cycle.
 I have heard a few recommendations already.
One was to run Deca like I said just before but keep the test to 1cc throughout the cycle. From my last cycle on just Deca, I feel more to run the Sustanon250 at a higher cc than 1cc to sort as combat the androgenic effects of the Deca.
Another thing Ive heard is to run my Test to up to 2cc throughout the entire cycle and keep Deca to 1- 1.5cc. This does seem to make more sense to me but I do question whether 2cc of test throughout the cycle will be too much.
 I know all these small increments in difference of cc might be miniscal of a danger but I do believe if there can be a difference, I'm taking the most reasonable path.
     If anyone can help with tips from experience, I will appreciate it.

[Rimbaud]

When are you planning to start this cycle? To allow your body a full recovery time off should equal time on (including PCT).

[shortstak]

Ive taken 1 month exactly. Will start in 1 more week.  Ive heard to take the same time off as I did on but I hear from from an amateur bodybuilder I know to get back on the gear with no more than 1 month off. He said I will lose my gains by alot and that I was using only Deca, not as if I was on 1 or more Tests with it. Do u have any info on the cycle I plan on taking?

[Rimbaud]

I'm overly cautious when it comes to time off. I like to make sure I'm fully recovered. Since this is your first time with gear why don't you just see how you respond. I did a ten week cycle at the start of this year (probably gained 10-15 pounds) & really loose anything. That's including not training for a month (due to a death in the family & moving). Everyone recovers at a different rate. Some people can do a long cycle (18+ weeks) & recover in a month. Others do a short ten week cycle of Test only & it takes them six months. Remember everyone is different & what works for someone else won't always work for you. I disagree with your friend just because I think that type of mindset (i.e. getting right back on steroids to avoid losing gains) will lead to a psychological addiction to steroids. Basically someone who only trains or enjoys training when he's on something. I would still recommend that you take at least more months off before thinking about another cycle.

Questions:
You took only Deca for your first cycle? Did you have any sex drive at all?
How old are you?
Stats?
How long have you been training naturally?
Could you please map out your next cycle?

[shortstak]

Thanks alot for your reply. What your are saying is very true and the questions in the end that you ask me do play an important role on how I should run my next cycle.
 A reason why I had said in the beginning that I want to inject more test than deca in my next cycle is because I feel I will have less androgenic effects from the Deca. It is embarrassing, feeling it in the very first experience using steroids, but I started having a problem simply even getting an erection when I was on or around the 6th week shooting up. No matter what the majority of people told me that I was going to get "deca dick" using just the deca, I went on believing that certain theory was just made up for the guys who already have that problem. After that side effect, I began to take Stamina-RX, Nitrix, and a natural test booster made up of alot of tribulus. I stepped up my cardio as well, and kept off the fatty foods. After a few days of continuing this, I had more blood circulation and had much less of a problem. I say now that my natural test is up to normal because I been off of everything for a month and my sex drive is back and my strength and weight is solid.
I do have a question for you on all this though.. The very first thing that I ever heard about steroids since being young is that if you are using a steroid in the form of Test, that you have a monster sex drive and can have sex for a long time. Is this true?
I'm 21 yrs old. I know I am producing a high level of natural test already but training naturally over a year and a half now very consistently (roughly 5 or 6 days lifting, 1 or 2 days off) with the use of protein, creatine, nitric oxide, and natural test boosters.. over this period of training I know I made a great amount of gains in strength and size using a simple short cycle with just Deca.
The first day on the use of Deca I weighed 160lbs and my strength for at least the flat bench press was for example 225lbs for 4 reps. At the end of the cycle, the 12th wk, I weighed 176 and was lifting 225 for 12 reps. Now I weigh 172lbs. and lift 225 for 8-10 reps. In my workouts, I feel strong and always feel a pump without the gear now and the supplements (except protein), but I do feel either a mental factor or maybe the actual physical inability to push past a certain number of reps. I'm good at breaking my plateaus in time, but possibly my body isn't responding with the deca much since I been off.
To somewhat map out my next cycle..

WEEK   SUN          MON     TUES     WED     THURS     FRI             SAT
1         1.5cc deca                                                1.5cc deca
           1.5cc sus                                                  1.5cc sus
                             FOR EVERY 5 DAYS UNTIL 6TH WEEK

2                 
3
4
5

6  THIS 6TH WEEK: DECA WILL RUN 2CC EVERY 5 DAYS UNTIL END OF CYCLE,           SUSTANON WILL KEEP 1.5CC EVERY 5 DAYS UNTIL END OF CYCLE

7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 FINAL WEEK

16  PCT- SHOT OF HCG, ONE INJECTION A WEEK
17          HCG
18          HCG
19          CLOMID- FOR 4 WKS OR UNTIL SATISFACTORY
20          CLOMID
21          CLOMID
22          CLOMID
23          CLOMID
 
 Any recommendations, more tips, or questions on all this?
 Thanks for the help so far

[Arnold jr]

You'd be better served to stay off AAS until you're a little older, a little more advanced and a little more educated. At the same time, you have allready crossed-over and it is hard to turn back. I'm not going to bust your balls for this decision, it's yours to make. But unless you are an "advanced" trainer, one who has high competitive aspirations and can already back that up with what they have built naturally, then that person could be justified in using AAS...other wise I say wait, but again it's your call.

As for your cycle itself, you need to break it down in terms of doses, not cc or ml. cc could mean anything, since not all drugs are dosed the same. Also, for easier reading break it down a little simpler, such as:

wk 1-12 drug "A" at this dose
wk 6-12 drug "B" at this dose
etc.

Decide on your cycle, give us the breakdown and people will be able to advise. BTW, when it comes to the drugs, most of them can be taken at one dose throughout...no need to continually alter the doses during the cycle.

[Luv2Hurt]

You'd be better served to stay off AAS until you're a little older, a little more advanced and a little more educated. At the same time, you have allready crossed-over and it is hard to turn back. I'm not going to bust your balls for this decision, it's yours to make. But unless you are an "advanced" trainer, one who has high competitive aspirations and can already back that up with what they have built naturally, then that person could be justified in using AAS...other wise I say wait, but again it's your call.

Very good post!

[Rimbaud]

I agree with Arnold when he says you should wait until you're older. You've only been training for a year and a half naturally. I personally don't feel that that's enough time to build a solid foundation. I'd say more like three or four years of natural training. But as I said before I tend to be over cautious.

If you're planning on a Test/Deca cycle then the Test to Deca ratio should be something like the following: 2:1 or 3:2 (preferably the first if you were having sexual sideeffects from the Deca).

[shortstak]

by doses, do u mean mgs? 
I believe I have made up my mind on the cycle.
Weeks 1-15 Deca once a week 250mgs (roughly 1 cc??)
Weeks 1-15 Sustanon every 5 days 500mgs (roughly 2 cc??)
What is the measurement of mgs transition to cc?
I agree with much of the info you all have put out.
The amount of AAS I use can stay the same throughout the cycle.
And the 2:1 ratio between the Test and Deca sounds ok.
As far as waiting some more, I will be cautious with the way my body is reacting to these drugs and will stop use if I feel any major side effects and hopefully not anything worse.

[Rimbaud]

I still don't agree with you taking steroids at your age. However, here's a simple cycle based on what you said you want to do, take, etc...

Weeks 1-15 600mg Test E  EW (I don't like Sust - but that's my opinion)
Weeks 1-12 300mg Deca  EW
Weeks 1-8 40mg Tbol  ED (optional but I love me some Tbol)
Weeks 17-20 PCT (Nolva or Clomid - your choice but I prefer Nolva)

You could also add 0.25-1mg of Adex ED to block water retention &/or gyno-like symptoms.

[freakfestMD]

by doses, do u mean mgs? 

As far as waiting some more, I will be cautious with the way my body is reacting to these drugs and will stop use if I feel any major side effects and hopefully not anything worse.

I don't necessarily think the reason you shouldn't use AAS is because you are 21 years old (although I think 24-26 is preferable for so many reasons).  The reason you shouldn't use AAS is because of your clear and blatant lack of preparation.  Any amount of time reading on this board would have prepared you for the "deca dick" you experienced.  Your time off duration...your lack of any anti-e's or testicular protection...WTF?

Also, you say you will "stop use if (you) feel any major side effects..."  I can guarantee you will feel these side effects because of your inexperience at this stage, so why even start the cycle at all?

Learn how to train and diet to your absolute maximum potential, and build a base of solid, quality, grainy muscle before you even think about using gear.  Sure, during that time start reading as much as you can about gear and gain as much knowledge as possible.  Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up to become another fat loser at the gym.





Don't be that guy. 

[blondmusclhunk]

You need to do a lot more research.  On your first cylce 250 a week of sust prob is a little week I would of done 1ml twice a week (250 per ml)  giving you 500 mgs.  Never use deca by itself and always keep it about half of what your test mg are.

[shortstak]

OK now. I have my cycle.
Weeks 1-15 Deca 300mgs once a week
Weeks1-15  Sustanon250 250mgs every Monday and Friday, equals to 500mgs/wk
 One question I have.. how much arimidex do i use in the cycle? When do I start the Nolvadex and also for how long? Does any Clomid have to be involved for pct or should I rather keep with the Nolvadex?

[coolioni]

i would definatly use double the test than the amount of deca you are always using.
Deca seems to make me hold water if I take too much compared to the amount of test!

[shortstak]

sounds good. any recommendations for the anti-e's during cycle and test protection for pct?

[freakfestMD]

sounds good. any recommendations for the anti-e's during cycle and test protection for pct?

So much for my advice. That being said:

Arimidex throughout the cycle.  I start right at the first injection and run it all the way through.  Recommendations for Arimidex dosages vary a bit on the board here, but about 0.5mg per day on that cycle should be plenty.  I also like a low dose of hcg throughout.  I use 500IU every 5 days, but I'm older and I use heavy doses of gear.  For you, 300IU should be fine, subQ.  Nolva for PCT.  Here again recommendations vary widely on the board.  I like 20mg per day for 4 weeks.  You can always ramp it up a bit if side effects come with a vengeance.

One suggestion.  Drop the deca at least 2 weeks before the sust, or switch to test prop at the end on it's own for about 4 weeks.

[shortstak]

Thanks very much freak for the info again. If anything i was unsure of was anti-e dosages using arimidex and nolva pct. If I use arimidex throughout cycle and nolva for pct, is the hcg even neccesary top be used throughout the cycle? i believed it to be for immediate use at end of cycle followed by nolva?