Author Topic: Dextrose PWO  (Read 2173 times)

Tapeworm

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29349
  • Hold Fast
Dextrose PWO
« on: January 15, 2007, 07:56:04 AM »
I have never taken dextrose or maltodextrin, but lots of guys seem to.

I believe in the PWO window.  If I skip a meal during the day it's no big deal, although I try not to.  But if I don't eat within an hour and a half of a workout, I get in a really bad mood.  Low blood sugar I guess, though I've never measured it.

So I believe in nutrients PWO, but dumping simple sugar into the body seems extreme to me.  Isn't promoting insulin spiking a bad idea since it promotes fat storage?  Is it a bad idea in general to spike insulin (isn't the high followed by a low?) because of the impact it has on hormone levels and metabolism?

Why don't people just eat sugar in their whey PWO?  Eating healthy all day but loading up on simple sugar PWO seems weird.  Please clue me in.

El Guapo

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 497
  • Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2007, 02:51:54 PM »
the main reason you hear pros talking about dextrose is because they just got done shooting 10 iu's of insulin and they need a simple carb like dextrose so they dont slip into a coma. Jus t stick to your sweet potato and chicken.

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19323
  • Getbig!
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2007, 05:26:20 PM »
I have never taken dextrose or maltodextrin, but lots of guys seem to.

I believe in the PWO window.  If I skip a meal during the day it's no big deal, although I try not to.  But if I don't eat within an hour and a half of a workout, I get in a really bad mood.  Low blood sugar I guess, though I've never measured it.

So I believe in nutrients PWO, but dumping simple sugar into the body seems extreme to me.  Isn't promoting insulin spiking a bad idea since it promotes fat storage?  Is it a bad idea in general to spike insulin (isn't the high followed by a low?) because of the impact it has on hormone levels and metabolism?

Why don't people just eat sugar in their whey PWO?  Eating healthy all day but loading up on simple sugar PWO seems weird.  Please clue me in.

It depends on when it's done. Post-workout is fine, because your body will use almost all the nutrients that you feed it.

I use dextrose, mainly because of the particular creatine supplements I've used, either Phohsagen HP/Elite or CELL-TECH. I've used both (primarily CELL-TECH), during a getting-lean period and they've worked rather well for me.

Cooker

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Getbig!
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2007, 06:42:56 PM »
Dextrose is different than sugar.  Dex is all glucose so your body can absorb it quicker than sucrose.  Some feel it is important to get the glucose into your system ASAP after a workout.  I don't question the importance of the PWO meal but I personally am undecided if it is imparative to ingest dextrose/simpe sugars vs. good solid carbs PWO.

pobrecito

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4851
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2007, 07:28:17 PM »
Dextrose is different than sugar.  Dex is all glucose so your body can absorb it quicker than sucrose.  Some feel it is important to get the glucose into your system ASAP after a workout.  I don't question the importance of the PWO meal but I personally am undecided if it is imparative to ingest dextrose/simpe sugars vs. good solid carbs PWO.

It has nothing to do with how fast your body can absorb it. The role of the dextrose is to stimulate an insulin response and bring GLUT4 channels to the cell membrane, thus giving the glucose and other nutrients (namely your whey protein) a chance to get into your cells in a more favorable manner than without the presence of the ion channels.

AVBG

  • Guest
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2007, 07:30:30 PM »
It has nothing to do with how fast your body can absorb it. The role of the dextrose is to stimulate an insulin response and bring GLUT4 channels to the cell membrane, thus giving the glucose and other nutrients (namely your whey protein) a chance to get into your cells in a more favorable manner than without the presence of the ion channels.

Well put pobrecito.

Cooker

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Getbig!
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2007, 05:28:00 AM »
It has nothing to do with how fast your body can absorb it.

If the speed of reaction, maybe not absorbtion, was not important, then why such a simple and quick digesting sugar?  Any carb will stimulate an insulin response.

Tapeworm

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29349
  • Hold Fast
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2007, 07:41:25 AM »
It has nothing to do with how fast your body can absorb it. The role of the dextrose is to stimulate an insulin response and bring GLUT4 channels to the cell membrane, thus giving the glucose and other nutrients (namely your whey protein) a chance to get into your cells in a more favorable manner than without the presence of the ion channels.

I appreciate your response pobre, but I can't agree.  Nutrients make their way into cells throughout the day without ultra-high GI carbs, so the ion channels that the cell walls use to shuttle nutrients across are not reliant upon a dextrose induced insulin spike.  I have to agree with cooker that any carb will yield an insulin response.  I assume the dextrose just makes it happen faster.  So why is instant feeding of fatigued cells with dextrose more favorable than letting the body break down solid food?  Does using dextrose maximize gains or help recovery?  Or does is just boost a good pump?

mwkcronin

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2007, 06:46:28 AM »

  I am still leary on using dextrose post-workout.  One's recovery is suppossed to be quicker when used in conjunction with protein and carbs. 

  The only time I'd ever use it would be with the new Anabolic Pump.  Even when bulking, my fear of gaining fat when using sugar-based, or dextrose is a bit high. 

MidniteRambo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1684
  • 1687 confirmed kills and counting
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2007, 11:41:01 AM »
If the speed of reaction, maybe not absorbtion, was not important, then why such a simple and quick digesting sugar?  Any carb will stimulate an insulin response.

Untrue.  From my own experience, I've never had an insulin spike from ingesting carbohydrates in the form of vegetables, for example.

Cooker

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Getbig!
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2007, 11:50:18 AM »
Untrue.  From my own experience, I've never had an insulin spike from ingesting carbohydrates in the form of vegetables, for example.

I did not say spike, I said insulin response, but nontheless I did make a mistake and should make a clarification.  Dietary fiber is considered a carbohydrate but does not have an affect on blood glucose levels.

MidniteRambo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1684
  • 1687 confirmed kills and counting
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2007, 12:12:31 PM »
I did not say spike, I said insulin response, but nontheless I did make a mistake and should make a clarification.  Dietary fiber is considered a carbohydrate but does not have an affect on blood glucose levels.

"Spike" versus "response"?  You're really parsing words here.  The whole context of the post is destrose PWO, the purpose of which is to spike insulin, not merely garner a "response."  Look at the original post. 

Cooker

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Getbig!
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2007, 02:36:47 PM »
"Spike" versus "response"?  You're really parsing words here.  The whole context of the post is destrose PWO, the purpose of which is to spike insulin, not merely garner a "response."  Look at the original post. 

I guess we got a little off point here.  I was just trying to clarify the reason dextrose is used is because of the speed of the reaction/absorbtion is has with the body.  You are saying that it is used because of the insulin spike that it creates.  I guess we are saying the same thing but are missing out on the reasoning why we get the insulin spike from dextrose and maybe I was not descriptive enough as to why the rate of absorbtion was important.

I completely agree that dextrose will spike insulin levels as compared to a sweet potato or other veggies that will not have nearly the effect as dextrose does on the body's insulin levels.  The sweet potato and other veggies will not spike insulin levels like I was referred to and you also pointed out, but you body will still have some form of insulin response to the ingested carbs.  Sorry for not being more clear in the context in which I used the words "spike" and "response" but you were taking one sentence from my response to your comments and mixing it up with other statements I made in this thread.

You are saying that the speed of the absorbtion/reaction has nothing to do as to why dextrose is used.  Simply put, it is the speed of reaction and absorbtion that creates the spike.


MidniteRambo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1684
  • 1687 confirmed kills and counting
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 06:57:10 AM »


it is the speed of reaction and absorbtion that creates the spike.


I agree.  Good job of sticking with it until everyone was on the same page.

pobrecito

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4851
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 11:29:09 AM »
I appreciate your response pobre, but I can't agree.  Nutrients make their way into cells throughout the day without ultra-high GI carbs, so the ion channels that the cell walls use to shuttle nutrients across are not reliant upon a dextrose induced insulin spike.  I have to agree with cooker that any carb will yield an insulin response.  I assume the dextrose just makes it happen faster.  So why is instant feeding of fatigued cells with dextrose more favorable than letting the body break down solid food?  Does using dextrose maximize gains or help recovery?  Or does is just boost a good pump?

Again, you are missing the key physiological point....it is all about bringing an ion channel to the membrane of muscle cells. Glucose ingestion does this very favorably via GLUT4. Other simple sugars, such as fructose, will trigger another member of the GLUT family (there are actually 12) of transporters in the liver and this is not what you want post-workout. The whole purpose of taking the dextrose is to initiate GLUT4 exocytosis to the cell membrance from the intracellular vesicles they are stored in. This will allow the glucose, and more importantly, your whey protein and creatine, to be delievered to the cell in a manner far more rapidly, and efficiently, than in the absense of your dextrose.

Bottom line is, take your dextrose post-workout. 2:1 ratio of carbohydrate to protein. Throw your creatine in as well.

strength

  • Guest
Re: Dextrose PWO
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2007, 09:29:07 PM »
the main reason you hear pros talking about dextrose is because they just got done shooting 10 iu's of insulin and they need a simple carb like dextrose so they dont slip into a coma. Jus t stick to your sweet potato and chicken.
exactly