Pros and machines

[Cap]

Does anyone think many amatures don't look as good as they used to because of voer reliance on machines.  I remember Levrone saying M3 that guys don't train heavy and hardcore and don't look as good.

[benchthis]

theres a certain hardness missing IMO

[the shadow]

Does anyone think many amatures don't look as good as they used to because of voer reliance on machines.  I remember Levrone saying M3 that guys don't train heavy and hardcore and don't look as good.

pros love machines and machines love pros..

[Cap]

theres a certain hardness missing IMO

Yea and there is a lack of density we used to see.

[Bluto]

amateurs? who watch amateurs? i only watch pros

[Cap]

amateurs? who watch amateurs? i only watch pros

The guys who win their pro cards... 

[the shadow]

amateurs? who watch amateurs? i only watch pros

hahha yeah..you only like pros cocks..hahahah

[tom joad]

gotta go back to the basics and the weider principles.

[Bluto]

dorian used a lot of machines

[Cap]

Absolutely bullshit. Ruhl, DJ or Schlierkamp mainly use machines.

They all use free weights but the guys coming up don't look as good from overusing machines IMO. 

[the shadow]

Absolutely bullshit. Ruhl, DJ or Schlierkamp mainly use machines.

you're the guy who is bullshitting here.just go and watch djs this is the way i do it..few machines.he is known as a real hardcore trainer.i can agree with ruhl and gunter using alot of machines.paul dillet and wheeler used the most machines

[Cap]

you're the guy who is bullshitting here.just go and watch djs this is the way i do it..few machines.he is known as a real hardcore trainer.i can agree with ruhl and gunter using alot of machines.paul dillet and wheeler used the most machines

Well Wheeler and Dillet used a shit load of roids and responded to very little training and to AAS.

[natural al]

the lack of hardness or grainyness is due to the higher amounts of GH and insulin, it doesn't have anything to do with training with machines or free weights.  Look at pics of strydom from his show last year, nobody was as hard and grainy as he was from the front and he uses a bunch of machines.  his drug intake is just different than the guys coming up today.

[Bluto]

a lot of pros use a lot of machines, then they use a lot of cables and smith machine etc too most rather use lat pulldowns than chins, cable rows etc

[Cap]

the lack of hardness or grainyness is due to the higher amounts of GH and insulin, it doesn't have anything to do with training with machines or free weights.  Look at pics of strydom from his show last year, nobody was as hard and grainy as he was from the front and he uses a bunch of machines.  his drug intake is just different than the guys coming up today.

What about the guys in the 90's they were bigger, harder, and drier than these guys.  I mean a last place finisher from the 90's could place top 10 in the O today in that same shape.  It's kinda sad.  I think machines have a place but guys don't look as good.

[Man of Steel]

dorian used a lot of machines

Correct, towards the end of his pro career he had more reliance on machines, but his core was built on a foundation of free weights.....still, he built size towards the end with machines and free weights....you're right about that.

[kiwiol]

What about the guys in the 90's they were bigger, harder, and drier than these guys.  I mean a last place finisher from the 90's could place top 10 in the O today in that same shape.  It's kinda sad.  I think machines have a place but guys don't look as good.

Machines have their place and should be used only if you have an injury that a free weight exercise might make worse. If there is a free weight exercise that you can do to target a specific muscle group, you should use it instead of using a machine that does the same, cause you do more work with free weights (stabilising etc) and that means, a denser, more muscular, more separations / impressive look

[natural al]

What about the guys in the 90's they were bigger, harder, and drier than these guys.  I mean a last place finisher from the 90's could place top 10 in the O today in that same shape.  It's kinda sad.  I think machines have a place but guys don't look as good.

guys still used machines back then, I think it's more a product of "you've got to be as big as a house or we won't look at you" that has ruined the look you're talking about.  Compare a shot of Ruhl from his pro debut at the NOC a few years back to him when he placed top 5 at the olympia.  I doubt his training changed a whole buch, maybe it did but I doubt it.  All his detail, hardness and seperation are gone cause of all the drugs these guys are using to look f'n gigantic it bloats the skin and takes away from the detail.  Same with Ronnie, compare him from the last O to even back before he won his first O, especially his back and the difference is night andd day.

[Bluto]

to be part machine you need to work with machines.

[The Showstoppa]

No doubt that free weights should always be the foundation, but nothing wrong with using machines as well.

[Cap]

guys still used machines back then, I think it's more a product of "you've got to be as big as a house or we won't look at you" that has ruined the look you're talking about.  Compare a shot of Ruhl from his pro debut at the NOC a few years back to him when he placed top 5 at the olympia.  I doubt his training changed a whole buch, maybe it did but I doubt it.  All his detail, hardness and seperation are gone cause of all the drugs these guys are using to look f'n gigantic it bloats the skin and takes away from the detail.  Same with Ronnie, compare him from the last O to even back before he won his first O, especially his back and the difference is night andd day.

Yea I agree with you.  Ronnie's back used to look alot better.

I am not saying machines suck, just that maybe some overuse them.

[Man of Steel]

No doubt that free weights should always be the foundation, but nothing wrong with using machines as well.

Exactly, I use free weights and machines all the time....its the folks that abandon the free weights completely in favor of the machines that lose out.

[Cap]

I just notice that alot of guys at my gym who juice rarely use free weights.  They are younger but is that common to what you guys see?

[Man of Steel]

I just notice that alot of guys at my gym who juice rarely use free weights.  They are younger but is that common to what you guys see?

Who needs all that heavy free weight when you have a magical syringe full of chemical muscle?

[Cap]

Who needs all that heavy free weight when you have a magical syringe full of chemical muscle?

I guess.   It kind of explains why guys bigger than me are in fact bigger but are weak as shit.  Good for them I guess,  hopefully the cc's don't run out.