Author Topic: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....  (Read 47856 times)

NarcissisticDeity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 83445
  • Go back to making jewelry and cakes with your girl
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2007, 06:48:15 PM »
I really think Jay has done a pretty good job of transforming his back although I think the GH is thickening his skin which makes it harder for him to have detail.

He has done a good job of transforming his back but I think the detail is genetic I don't think Jay is using anything different than Yates or Coleman

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22972
  • ND ran away from me
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2007, 06:58:20 PM »
one thing is plainly obvious after all these debates:

the ONLY way the dorian side can make peak Ronnie look worse than dorian is by either:

1. claiming pics/videos are doctored

and/or

2. using blatantly blurry coleman shots (see ND's posts on the truce thread or even ironage.us)

says a lot, doesn't it?

 ::)
Flower Boy Ran Away

pobrecito

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4851
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2007, 07:05:28 PM »
one thing is plainly obvious after all these debates:

the ONLY way the dorian side can make peak Ronnie look worse than dorian is by either:

1. claiming pics/videos are doctored

and/or

2. using blatantly blurry coleman shots (see ND's posts on the truce thread or even ironage.us)

says a lot, doesn't it?

 ::)

Absolutely false. All we want is an accurate comparison. When this is done, it is clear that Yates is superior in enough aspects (namely, muscularity and conditioning) that he would be given the win over Coleman.

IceCold

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Getbig!
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2007, 07:47:14 PM »
i think people have surpassed haney, but no one has surpassed ronnie or dorian.

as far as whose back is the best, i gotta agree with what ronnie coleman himself he said.


from FLEX, july 2003.

DESCRIBE DORIAN YATES: A close friend. Dorian is very intelligent, a great Mr. Olympia. He had the best side-chest pose and the thickest freakiest back I have ever seen.


this thread is now over.

R.I.P. DIMEBAG DARRELL ABBOTT (1966-2004)

alexxx

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10129
  • Don't hate..
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2007, 07:53:57 PM »
Flex Wheeler  :-*

just push some weight!

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2007, 07:56:57 PM »
Flex Wheeler  :-*



Highly detailed, not thick or wide enough though.

Iceman1981

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • www.LegendsOfBodybuilding.com
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2007, 07:58:31 PM »
Yates.

That pic is fake, here is the real one:

Iceman1981

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • www.LegendsOfBodybuilding.com
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2007, 08:03:57 PM »
his back is dryer for sure, but it has zero taper and looks flat as a pancake. yates lats were not thicker then ronnies.

look at ronnies lats folding over, yates lats were never that thick, nor his middle back. dryer yes. more detailed, probably. ronnies back is definitetly bigger and thicker and wider. and his taper is miles better. back alone it can be argued. but ronnie easily wins the back double bi on account that you have to take the arms, delts, glutes, hams and calves into account. if back is a draw based on preference, then all ronnie loses on is calves.

yates back was not as thick as 03 ronnie and not even close to 04 holland grad prix ronnie.

That's exactly word for word what we have been telling this guy but he still refuses to listen. In 95 yates back was dry but looks flat and not thick in those shots.

Dredlock Rasta

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 601
  • Can't trust shadows after dark
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2007, 08:05:16 PM »

You would ' own ' me if you had anything to work with but like all the other Nutt-Huggers you don't , you're just another ignorant Coleman fan who thinks they know what they're talking about , Ronnie has a better back because he has a smaller waist? great fucking-logic  ::)

I can articulate exactly why Dorian has a better back for the uneducated and ignorant for yourself

Traps - Dorian's are thicker & denser and show better detail & separation from the related muscles
Teres major & minor - Dorian and Ronnie's show about the same level of detail & separation
Lats - Dorian's have better sweep , they're thicker & denser and his lower lats from the backshow levels of detail & development in which Ronnie or Haney has never shown
Erector spinae - Dorian's christmass tree again shows more detail & development than either Haney or Coleman's ever have
Dorian's lats insert lower to his waist , Ronnie & Haney's don't , hence why you harp on Dorian's back looking ' flat ' like that means anything in the scope of things  ::)
Dryness & Hardness , Ronnie would perhaps match Dorian in terms of dryness & hardness in 1998 Olympia and 2001 Arnold classic yet he was just 249 pounds & 244 pounds respectively , its much harder ( no pun ) to do when you're 260 pounds
Density - Dorian is the definition of density

now lets compare that to your assessment

Ronnie has better thickness & taper , WOW you really made your case  ::)


I wasn't even going to respond to this but I have to , and why? because its so pathetic and so God-damn unoriginal , homophobic rants on a bodybuilding message board? I've never seen those before  ::) wow you're a real innovator , like your lame-ass assessment this just reeks of desperation but hey its not like you have much to work with given your limited abilities , especially compared to me , kid word of advice , try doing some research and be a little more original  ;)



Man you're still at this  :P  You are one strange individual.  :-\
Don't let em fool ya

Iceman1981

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • www.LegendsOfBodybuilding.com
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2007, 08:06:32 PM »
in that first pic i see, flat as a pancake back with zero taper. ripped to shreds and dry. shitty arms with biceps non-exsistent, less then stellar hams and great calves. glutes could also be harder and more striated. second pic is a stupid pic that is blown up and on a weird angle.

thrid pic is amazing lats, that are super thick. poor arms and delts with little detail and seperation. chest that is lacking in striations in the pick and good taper.

i think yates flexed and spread his back more in the front lat, while ronnie contracted his chest and delts.

im not a coleman guy, i can see that yates had a great back, but that is my honest opinion of the picks you posted. its really preference bt the two. i like the thickness and crazy taper ronnie has with great detail, over the dry, hard yates with great detail.

Excellent post again.

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2007, 08:08:12 PM »
http://www.dailymotion.com/Tech9/video/xkpsk_bodybuilders

Watch this.
They outline judging.
Muscularity, Conditioning, and most of all, PROPORTIONED DEVELOPMENT.
Sorry Big Ron.

Iceman1981

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • www.LegendsOfBodybuilding.com
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #86 on: January 23, 2007, 08:08:26 PM »
meltdown

How is that a meltdown? He told your a$$ as he see's things and all you can say is meltdown? What, you can't reply with a decent answer? lol

Iceman1981

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • www.LegendsOfBodybuilding.com
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #87 on: January 23, 2007, 08:09:43 PM »
If the best Dorian was hitting a rear double bi against the best Ronnie, Dorian would lose.

Amen to that. And this is coming from a guy named "Jr. Yates".

IceCold

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Getbig!
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2007, 08:26:06 PM »






some of their best back shots.

tough call.

i prefer yates' hardness. 
R.I.P. DIMEBAG DARRELL ABBOTT (1966-2004)

pobrecito

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4851
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #89 on: January 23, 2007, 08:26:24 PM »
Amen to that. And this is coming from a guy named "Jr. Yates".

Coleman's back double bi was never this good ;)

nicorulez

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1674
  • Getbig!
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2007, 09:31:29 PM »
Wrong pobrecito, Ronnie kills him in the back double bi.  Why, his back is thicker but not as ripped.  I agree with you there.  However, he has better delts, far superior arms, and striated and thick hams/glutes.  Yates has him on calves.  Oh well, I guess Ronnie should go back into hiding.  Seriously though, Yates back double bi is not overly impressive except for his back detail.  Coleman is wider and thicker.  The widest is Cutler; he just lacks detail.  Overall, this thread is another rehash of Yates vs Coleman.  It is old news.  ND is forever gonna be a Yates lover.  Hulkster is Coleman's biggest fan.  Personally, I would love to see someone like Freeman come along and get bigger and more ripped than both of them. 

However, while we are debating (again) Yates vs Coleman, consider the following. Yates had detail but zero aesthetics.  Ronnie has decent detail (especially in 1998/1999) and far superior size and taper.  Sorry ND, the 260 pound Yates had a bloated stomach, average arms and legs that would have gotten raped by Coleman.  His calves were better, but his limbs for the most part were average.  Good size in the quads and hams, but Ronnie kills him in detail and size.  Ronnie has a far superior chest than Yates ever had.  Yates has better rectus abdominus, but wider obliques.   It is a joke that you think Ronnie in 2003 wouldn't blow Yates off the stage.  Anybody without shades realizes that Ronnie would destroy him.  The only pics where Yates could even hope to match him in size are three seasons out from the contest in off-season shape.  At 290 pounds, Yates had visible fat.  Face it, Ronnie is more muscular.  Whether you prefer that look is one thing; however, to even insinuate that Yate's was more muscular is laughable.

NeoSeminole

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5589
  • Ronnie > Dorian
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2007, 09:36:01 PM »
Wrong PubicHair, Ronnie kills him in the back double bi.  Why, his back is thicker but not as ripped.  I agree with you there.  However, he has better delts, far superior arms, and striated and thick hams/glutes.  Yates has him on calves.  Oh well, I guess Ronnie should go back into hiding.  Seriously though, Yates back double bi is not overly impressive except for his back detail.  Coleman is wider and thicker.  The widest is Cutler; he just lacks detail.  Overall, this thread is another rehash of Yates vs Coleman.  It is old news.  ND is forever gonna be a Yates lover.  Hulkster is Coleman's biggest fan.  Personally, I would love to see someone like Freeman come along and get bigger and more ripped than both of them. 

However, while we are debating (again) Yates vs Coleman, consider the following. Yates had detail but zero aesthetics.  Ronnie has decent detail (especially in 1998/1999) and far superior size and taper.  Sorry ND, the 260 pound Yates had a bloated stomach, average arms and legs that would have gotten raped by Coleman.  His calves were better, but his limbs for the most part were average.  Good size in the quads and hams, but Ronnie kills him in detail and size.  Ronnie has a far superior chest than Yates ever had.  Yates has better rectus abdominus, but wider obliques.   It is a joke that you think Ronnie in 2003 wouldn't blow Yates off the stage.  Anybody without shades realizes that Ronnie would destroy him.  The only pics where Yates could even hope to match him in size are three seasons out from the contest in off-season shape.  At 290 pounds, Yates had visible fat.  Face it, Ronnie is more muscular.  Whether you prefer that look is one thing; however, to even insinuate that Yate's was more muscular is laughable.


Iceman1981

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • www.LegendsOfBodybuilding.com
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2007, 09:48:45 PM »

Iceman1981

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • www.LegendsOfBodybuilding.com
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2007, 09:51:03 PM »
Lights Out, Game Over





Sorry wrong pic. Here is the right one:

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22972
  • ND ran away from me
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2007, 09:51:41 PM »
Wrong pobrecito, Ronnie kills him in the back double bi.  Why, his back is thicker but not as ripped.  I agree with you there.  However, he has better delts, far superior arms, and striated and thick hams/glutes.  Yates has him on calves.  Oh well, I guess Ronnie should go back into hiding.  Seriously though, Yates back double bi is not overly impressive except for his back detail.  Coleman is wider and thicker.  The widest is Cutler; he just lacks detail.  Overall, this thread is another rehash of Yates vs Coleman.  It is old news.  ND is forever gonna be a Yates lover.  Hulkster is Coleman's biggest fan.  Personally, I would love to see someone like Freeman come along and get bigger and more ripped than both of them. 

However, while we are debating (again) Yates vs Coleman, consider the following. Yates had detail but zero aesthetics.  Ronnie has decent detail (especially in 1998/1999) and far superior size and taper.  Sorry ND, the 260 pound Yates had a bloated stomach, average arms and legs that would have gotten raped by Coleman.  His calves were better, but his limbs for the most part were average.  Good size in the quads and hams, but Ronnie kills him in detail and size.  Ronnie has a far superior chest than Yates ever had.  Yates has better rectus abdominus, but wider obliques.   It is a joke that you think Ronnie in 2003 wouldn't blow Yates off the stage.  Anybody without shades realizes that Ronnie would destroy him.  The only pics where Yates could even hope to match him in size are three seasons out from the contest in off-season shape.  At 290 pounds, Yates had visible fat.  Face it, Ronnie is more muscular.  Whether you prefer that look is one thing; however, to even insinuate that Yate's was more muscular is laughable.

excellent post!

I see ND and co.  are getting their asses handed to them again.

Ronnie 99 would easily beat yates in my opinion.

yes, easily.

he has more aesthetics than dorian, with equal size.

he matched dorian in the back department (something NONE of Dorian's challengers ever did - hence part of why dorian won all the time) and had far better quads, glutes, hams, chest and arms.

He also had far better taper.

had lost out in the ab and calf department.

What else is there to say?

all this bullshit about dorian's "better balance, propoprotion, density, muscular bulk ( ::))" is exactly that:

complete bullshit:

why? because its all words on a page that do not even remotely come close to real life:

just look:

dorian was simply not this good.

Its debatable whether anyone really was.

As mentioned, Flex 93 had the shape and detail that ronnie did, with better abs, but had poor back thickness and lats by comparison..


Flower Boy Ran Away

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22972
  • ND ran away from me
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2007, 09:54:31 PM »
ronnie's 99 double bi:

Flower Boy Ran Away

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2007, 10:52:00 PM »
http://www.dailymotion.com/Tech9/video/xkpsk_bodybuilders

Watch this.
They outline judging.
Muscularity, Conditioning, and most of all, PROPORTIONED DEVELOPMENT.
Sorry Big Ron.

 ???

NarcissisticDeity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 83445
  • Go back to making jewelry and cakes with your girl
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2007, 01:48:18 AM »
Wrong pobrecito, Ronnie kills him in the back double bi.  Why, his back is thicker but not as ripped.  I agree with you there.  However, he has better delts, far superior arms, and striated and thick hams/glutes.  Yates has him on calves.  Oh well, I guess Ronnie should go back into hiding.  Seriously though, Yates back double bi is not overly impressive except for his back detail.  Coleman is wider and thicker.  The widest is Cutler; he just lacks detail.  Overall, this thread is another rehash of Yates vs Coleman.  It is old news.  ND is forever gonna be a Yates lover.  Hulkster is Coleman's biggest fan.  Personally, I would love to see someone like Freeman come along and get bigger and more ripped than both of them. 

However, while we are debating (again) Yates vs Coleman, consider the following. Yates had detail but zero aesthetics.  Ronnie has decent detail (especially in 1998/1999) and far superior size and taper.  Sorry ND, the 260 pound Yates had a bloated stomach, average arms and legs that would have gotten raped by Coleman.  His calves were better, but his limbs for the most part were average.  Good size in the quads and hams, but Ronnie kills him in detail and size.  Ronnie has a far superior chest than Yates ever had.  Yates has better rectus abdominus, but wider obliques.   It is a joke that you think Ronnie in 2003 wouldn't blow Yates off the stage.  Anybody without shades realizes that Ronnie would destroy him.  The only pics where Yates could even hope to match him in size are three seasons out from the contest in off-season shape.  At 290 pounds, Yates had visible fat.  Face it, Ronnie is more muscular.  Whether you prefer that look is one thing; however, to even insinuate that Yate's was more muscular is laughable.

How soon we forget how contests are judged

The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.


Bulk depending on year - Advantage Yates
Balanced development - at his best Advantage Yates
Muscular density - Advantage Yates
Definition - Advantage Yates although Ronnie may have match him in 98/01 but was down bulk in both years

Dorian simply owns more mandatory poses period , you can keep clinging to superior parts all you want , they don't make a better overall whole , that is where the balanced development comes into play

Sorry Nico a 257 pound Ronnie had a bloated gut , no calves , a mediocre midsection , he's also down on proportionate development and dryness & hardness , pick a year

Ronnie 1998 would be push with Yates on dryness ,and lag behind in bulk , density and balance
Ronnie 1999 would push on bulk , lag behind in dryness , density and balace and
Ronnie 2003 would have a big advantage in bulk , lag behind in density , dryness , and balance
Ronnie 2001 ASC would push on dryness , lag behind in bulk , balance , density

Dorian always has advantage Ronnie doesn't depending on the year he always met the criteria better than almost everyone hence why he NEVER placed below second in any pro contest .


NeoSeminole

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5589
  • Ronnie > Dorian
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2007, 03:28:43 AM »
yawn

How soon we forget how contests are judged

"The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized as these comparisons will help the judge to decide which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and definition."

Ronnie beats Dorian in muscular bulk and definition while Dorian has better density. They both tie in balance. According to the rulebook, Ronnie wins 2 of the 4 criteria vs Dorian winning only 1.

Quote
Bulk depending on year - Advantage Yates

except for 98 and 01 ASC, the advantage goes to Ronnie.

Quote
Balanced development - at his best Advantage Yates

Dorian at his best was either 92 or 93. He was considerably smaller in 92 but had a trim waist. In 93, his midsection began to grow which ruined his taper and made his arms look like twigs. Forget about his 95 package. We are talking about balanced development here. 

Quote
Muscular density - Advantage Yates

I agree

Quote
Definition - Advantage Yates although Ronnie may have match him in 98/01 but was down bulk in both years

from Merriam-Webster online

"definition:

clarity of visual presentation : distinctness of outline or detail."

Please show me where it talks about conditioning. Like I've said, Ronnie has superior definition from head to toe. ;)

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: Haney, Yates, Coleman, Cutler.....
« Reply #99 on: January 24, 2007, 08:35:46 AM »
http://www.dailymotion.com/Tech9/video/xkpsk_bodybuilders

Watch this.
They outline judging.
Muscularity, Conditioning, and most of all, PROPORTIONED DEVELOPMENT.
Sorry Big Ron.
 ???

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???