Author Topic: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do  (Read 12003 times)

pumpster

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2007, 06:59:31 PM »
It's not just bench press that went down. Everything except calves went down. Calves actually went up!! THAT'S an accomplishment because my calves are my greatest genetic struggle.

I just finished my shoulder/bi workout. My military press is down 4 reps and my BB curl is down 20 pounds. You think I'm just freaking out? My biceps strength hasn't budged! I'm weaker than I was a year ago and my muscle memory isn't doing shit for me. Freaking out? haha this is fucking bullshit.

Your whole approach is bizarre. You don't go from being that much of a HIT zealot to a hater that quickly without wack perspectives. It's not just the amount of weight lifted that matters in the context of a different protocol.

Disappointing that you of all people would be open to something new then over-react just because of one aspect, this obsession with weight. There are all sorts of effective programs that don't focus just on the amount lifted yet you've freaked over it.

Then you don't even bother to throw in much elaboration keeping everything in until prodded further. This after mounds of data generated during the short-lived HIT zealotry. Strange.

If on one hand you say you made gains but lost only 20 lb. on a lift, who the f*** cares?

Hedgehog

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2007, 07:09:43 PM »
Progressove, periodic training is where it is at bro!!  8)  I've been preachin that from day one. Mentzer was an old fvck who mixed philosohphical bullshit with training science, a mix known as psuedo-science.

Preach on brother Love!!!

Amen to that!!

The current words of wisdom I keep in the back of my head are: "Sometimes you got to go light to be able to go heavy".


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figgs

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2007, 07:29:02 PM »
I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!

I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.

I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.

And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.
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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2007, 07:36:12 PM »
I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!

I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.

I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.

And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.

Figgs you gotta clarify your objectives when starting any program.. Mentzer style training is never a solution for strength gains.. period.

If you're a bodybuilder, strength is a byproduct not THE goal when training.

figgs

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2007, 07:42:20 PM »
I consider myself a bodybuilder but like I said, when I go to the gym I'm looking for increases in strength. That's a huge priority. Isn't it the same for most others who lift weights?

Mentzer wrote in his book that strength should be expected to make major increases. I figured he meant that those 15 lb. side laterals and 60 pound BB curls were to increase at a rapid rate.  :-\
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AVBG

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2007, 07:43:51 PM »
I consider myself a bodybuilder but like I said, when I go to the gym I'm looking for increases in strength. That's a huge priority. Isn't it the same for most others who lift weights?
Mentzer wrote in his book that strength should be expected to make major increases. I figured he meant that those 15 lb. side laterals and 60 pound BB curls were to increase at a rapid rate.  :-\

Not really.

tu_holmes

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2007, 08:03:21 PM »
I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!

I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.

I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.

And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.


Hey man... no need to get uncalm... If you wanna be strong, you wanna be strong... I personally would rather "LOOK" strong... I don't really have to be strong... it just isn't a priority... I wanna look good... that's about it.

Good luck with whatever you're going for.

figgs

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2007, 08:10:38 PM »
Hey, this is news to me guys! I don't quite understand it, however. LOL but thanks for educating me and good luck.
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Hedgehog

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2007, 05:13:25 AM »
I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!

I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.

I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.

And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.

What's the number one priority of your training, strength or mass?

Let me also add that even for those who train for strength, a couple of years targeted at gaining mass is beneficial, but obviously not with the high rep training and no rest between sets of Mentzer.

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figgs

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2007, 08:33:43 AM »
What's the number one priority of your training, strength or mass?

Let me also add that even for those who train for strength, a couple of years targeted at gaining mass is beneficial, but obviously not with the high rep training and no rest between sets of Mentzer.

-Hedge

I'd say both are equal priorities. I go to the gym to get stronger and I wait for the results.
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BEAST 8692

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2007, 08:47:32 AM »
strength is antiquated.

you're probably using less weight because you're using stricter form or feeling the weight more instead of merely getting it from point a to point b.

with super slow training you were probably on the path to using your mind muscle connection and getting superior results with greater intensity.

just start jerking the weights with more speed and your 'strength' will go back up in no time. ::)

thewickedtruth

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2007, 09:18:39 AM »
The other thing that bothered me and I believe figgs was that even when you did this workout and as intense as it was..i was left with the feeling I didnt work hard enough or LONG enough for it to be effective but trusted that it would be.  :-\

wolfgang187

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2007, 11:19:26 PM »
Following the loss at the 1980 Mr. Olympia, Mentzer reportedly ran into numerous problems. In the late 1970's Mike is was reported to have begun using amphetamines, claiming he only took them as an ergogenic aid to help facilitate a hectic lifestyle. Mentzer left his position at Weider Publications shortly after his loss at the Mr. Olympia contest, and suffered financially as a result. He did land a job in 1985 as editor of the newly launched Workout Magazine, however when that failed and that same year his father died, Mentzer reportedly suffered a mental breakdown. According to Peter McGough, editor-in-chief of FLEX Magazine, stories began to surface of Menzter exhibiting some very erratic behaviour. Stories of him running naked through the streets, directing traffic, telling prophecies about the end of the world, being arrested by the police numerous times and even waiting for aliens to land were all published in magazines at one point or another. Popular bodybuilding writer Dan Duchaine even suggested that Menzter was drinking his own urine at the time. Mike denied this in a 2001 interview with Iron Man magazine. Nonetheless, according to McGough some of these stories are true.[1] Menzter was also regularly institutionalized between 1985 up until 1990, when he finally kicked his amphetamine habit. Drug free, Mike returned to training bodybuilders and writing for Ironman Magazine, and spent much of the 1990s regaining his stature in the bodybuilding industry.

pumpster

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2007, 09:50:13 AM »
strength is antiquated.

you're probably using less weight because you're using stricter form or feeling the weight more instead of merely getting it from point a to point b.

with super slow training you were probably on the path to using your mind muscle connection and getting superior results with greater intensity.

just start jerking the weights with more speed and your 'strength' will go back up in no time. ::)

Yup; form misleads on gauging strength.

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Re: Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2007, 12:37:31 PM »
there are tons of different methods of training and there is usually some good results to back it them up...on that note, out of all the different training methods to I think HIT is the one that has the most science backing it up, if you know anything about the science of how a muscle is built and the things that it requires to hypertrophy then you will believe HIT is a great way to train, like i said this does not mean that its for everyone and yes people can get huge doing many other things but you should look more into the basic HIT not Mentzers programs...