Author Topic: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?  (Read 11322 times)

Parker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 53475
  • He Sees The Stormy Anger Of The World
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2007, 08:47:45 AM »
Huh?

We have not defeated Iraq yet.  I do not understand your statement.

We've borken Iraq, fractionalized it, and we can't fix it. Saddam had the shit held together, and then the US comes along and TELLS people that Democracy is best for them. If they wanted Democracy they would have overthorwn the government.

Meanwhile there is a genocide going on Sudan. Hmmm, African coutry or Oil rich country, what is your pick?

Seems like a moralist uber-Christian President decided to pick 2 of the 7 deadly sins (greed and glottony) and has gotten us in rut.

Will to win? Win what? What is the goal? Is the goal forcing our lifestyle upon others, a lifestyle where our young female stars don't even wear underwear? If anything we should be looking at other cutlures and and countries and focusing on having the Will of getting our country back on track.

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2007, 09:05:37 AM »
Saddam had the shit held together,


ohh, dear lord. 
 ::)


We've borken Iraq,


 ???


in case you haven't picked up a newspaper lately, 90% of Iraq is doing well. 
Baghdad is a mess. 
choose your words properly.
W

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2007, 09:12:54 AM »
in case you haven't picked up a newspaper lately, 90% of Iraq is doing well. 
Baghdad is a mess. 
choose your words properly.

mighty,

why do you believe that the US military, the best on earth with the most resources and best soldiers, has LOST CONTROL of baghdad?  Remember that in 2003/4, it was WAY safer than it is today.

Some believe military resources were re-rerouted to create an insurgenecy - not enough to beat us - but just enough to ensure we were NEEDED there another 6 years to build that pipeline.

What do you believe?

Parker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 53475
  • He Sees The Stormy Anger Of The World
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2007, 09:27:51 AM »

ohh, dear lord. 
 ::)



 ???


in case you haven't picked up a newspaper lately, 90% of Iraq is doing well. 
Baghdad is a mess. 
choose your words properly.


Do you deny that Saddam kept iraq togehter? Any insurgents or threats to his power would be crushed (were) and shot by a firing squad. He after all was tyrant, and very bad man, who kept his power for what 25+ years. He knew his people, knew how to crush their will and any insurgency that started would have been nipped in the bud.

90% really? yeah, How  much of the 90% of the countries is inhabitated by people? 90% includes mountains, deserts, and plains. Mikey, you choose your words wisely. 90% doesn't mean jack, if the majority of the population lives in Baghdad and surrounding cities.
 Over 1/3 of Iraq was a no-fly zone, with Am military aircraft doing fly overs. Yet, if he had WMD, don't you think they would have spotted the development before hand

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2007, 10:59:03 AM »
mighty,
why do you believe that the US military, the best on earth with the most resources and best soldiers, has LOST CONTROL of baghdad?  Remember that in 2003/4, it was WAY safer than it is today.


just like you, all i can do is speculate.  i'm not a top general in the army, i don't know all the intell reports, i don't sit in on the presidential security briefings.  so all i can do is watch CREDIBLE news sources then make my judgements.
we are fighting more than Saddam loyalist.  iranians are flooding the city with islamic fanatics loaded with weapons and just enough brain skills to make a bomb. 
they have overwelmed the security, US and Iraqi, in that city.

that's what i think is happening

Some believe military resources were re-rerouted to create an insurgenecy - not enough to beat us - but just enough to ensure we were NEEDED there another 6 years to build that pipeline.

What do you believe?



i believe that you believe it.

i choose not to believe every hypothetical scenario thrown at me about why we are there or why we maintain to be there. 
i'm not saying you are right or wrong. 

but what i don't believe is that the US is purposely causing innocent deaths so something can get built.

i'll leave that to bush hating, anti-military, CT believing, 'let's stick daisies in our gun barrels and leave the world alone' nut jobs.
W

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63727
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2007, 11:02:48 AM »

just like you, all i can do is speculate.  i'm not a top general in the army, i don't know all the intell reports, i don't sit in on the presidential security briefings.  so all i can do is watch CREDIBLE news sources then make my judgements.
we are fighting more than Saddam loyalist.  iranians are flooding the city with islamic fanatics loaded with weapons and just enough brain skills to make a bomb. 
they have overwelmed the security, US and Iraqi, in that city.

that's what i think is happening



i believe that you believe it.

i choose not to believe every hypothetical scenario thrown at me about why we are there or why we maintain to be there. 
i'm not saying you are right or wrong. 

but what i don't believe is that the US is purposely causing innocent deaths so something can get built.

i'll leave that to bush hating, anti-military, CT believing, 'let's stick daisies in our gun barrels and leave the world alone' nut jobs.


I agree with this. 

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2007, 11:03:59 AM »

just like you, all i can do is speculate.  i'm not a top general in the army, i don't know all the intell reports, i don't sit in on the presidential security briefings.  so all i can do is watch CREDIBLE news sources then make my judgements.
we are fighting more than Saddam loyalist.  iranians are flooding the city with islamic fanatics loaded with weapons and just enough brain skills to make a bomb. 
they have overwelmed the security, US and Iraqi, in that city.

that's what i think is happening



i believe that you believe it.

i choose not to believe every hypothetical scenario thrown at me about why we are there or why we maintain to be there. 
i'm not saying you are right or wrong. 

but what i don't believe is that the US is purposely causing innocent deaths so something can get built.

i'll leave that to bush hating, anti-military, CT believing, 'let's stick daisies in our gun barrels and leave the world alone' nut jobs.


I'm all for putting in 300k men and crushing them to fiberglass.  What I'm NOT for, is putting in 21,500, a simple 15% increase to keep up with the 15% rise in estimated jihadists in 2007.

If we know tactics and troop numbers aren't working, when are we only putting in enough men to maintain that same troop ratio? ;)

Think about it.  It's a maintenance war.  Status quo.  Keep it the same.  Gates/Bush want 92k more troops over the next 5 years.  15% maintenance levels.

They won't win, and they won't lose.  They'll stalemate til the pipeline is built, then they'll suddenly leave.  Watch and see.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63727
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2007, 11:12:20 AM »

Think about it.  It's a maintenance war.  Status quo.  Keep it the same.  Gates/Bush want 92k more troops over the next 5 years.  15% maintenance levels.


He didn't ask to increase the size of our presence in Iraq by 92,000, he asked to increase the size of active duty Army and Marines by 92,000. 

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2007, 11:20:16 AM »
He didn't ask to increase the size of our presence in Iraq by 92,000, he asked to increase the size of active duty Army and Marines by 92,000. 

What number do you believe we will add over the next 5 years then? :)

BB, can you please explain the rationale for the 21,500 number?  It matches the insurgent growth.  The old ratio didn't work for 4 years.  Can you tell us why 21,500 was anything BUT a maintenance level?

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63727
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2007, 11:25:22 AM »
What number do you believe we will add over the next 5 years then? :)

BB, can you please explain the rationale for the 21,500 number?  It matches the insurgent growth.  The old ratio didn't work for 4 years.  Can you tell us why 21,500 was anything BUT a maintenance level?

I don't know what number we will add, I was just clarifying a factual inaccuracy that you have repeated several times.  You're misstating what Bush said about the increase of our military force.  He did not say we are increasing the size of our force in Iraq by 92,000.  His comments were limited the overall number of active duty Army and Marines.   

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2007, 11:40:08 AM »
I don't know what number we will add, I was just clarifying a factual inaccuracy that you have repeated several times.  You're misstating what Bush said about the increase of our military force.  He did not say we are increasing the size of our force in Iraq by 92,000.  His comments were limited the overall number of active duty Army and Marines.   

92,500 / 5 = 18,500 additional per year
18,500 a year, divided by the generous 80/20 iraq/elsewhere clip = 15k a year.
It's an insurgency matching program, I reckon.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63727
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2007, 11:43:40 AM »
92,500 / 5 = 18,500 additional per year
18,500 a year, divided by the generous 80/20 iraq/elsewhere clip = 15k a year.
It's an insurgency matching program, I reckon.


Possibly.  But I doubt it's that simple.  I reckon the Army and Marines gave Bush the 92,000 number based on the overall needs of each service. 

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2007, 11:45:55 AM »
Possibly.  But I doubt it's that simple.  I reckon the Army and Marines gave Bush the 92,000 number based on the overall needs of each service. 

it's very fluid.  I know we're pulling men out of Afghanistan at the moment (great idea!) to deal with Iraq.  And you have to wonder what about the 5000 men on each of the two carriers floating outside of Iran at the moment.  Surely they could be doing more than engaging in the dick measuring contest with adhemidjhad.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2007, 11:49:27 AM »
I reckon the Army and Marines gave Bush the 92,000 number based on the overall needs of each service. 

correct.  the needs of the service to match the 15% annual growth clip they don't talk about.

It's happening in Afgh. and it's happening in Iraq.  i bet in another year, everyone will be asking about it.  "Just why are we using stalemate maintenance level of forces in both countries?".  I just love to do trend analysis on numbers and I really believe that's the goal: Stall til the pipeline is done, then leave.  And I don't disagree with that strategy lol... I just wish we could *stall* on the outlands of the cities and keep more troops alive.  The drawback to this, is that IF al-maliki DOES fix things, we will be shown the door.  Then it's REALLY hard to stay and finish the pipeline.

Simply put, if you wanted to stay and build a pipeline, is there ANY other way you would do it? lol.. Stall.  It's the answer.  And it's what we're doing.

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2007, 11:54:33 AM »
If we know tactics and troop numbers aren't working, when are we only putting in enough men to maintain that same troop ratio? ;)


tactics have changed.  it will take some time for them to work. 

sometimes, the glass IS half full.

Think about it.  It's a maintenance war.  Status quo.  Keep it the same.  Gates/Bush want 92k more troops over the next 5 years.  15% maintenance levels.

They won't win, and they won't lose.  They'll stalemate til the pipeline is built, then they'll suddenly leave.  Watch and see.


all of that is your opinion.  none of it is correct.

only history will show if you're right. 



it's very fluid.  I know we're pulling men out of Afghanistan at the moment (great idea!) to deal with Iraq.  And you have to wonder what about the 5000 men on each of the two carriers floating outside of Iran at the moment.  Surely they could be doing more than engaging in the dick measuring contest with adhemidjhad.


240, what do you think the US should do with Iran??

you may have stated this before, but humor me for right now.
W

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2007, 12:07:08 PM »
tactics have changed.  it will take some time for them to work. 

Isn't this Bush's SEVENTH initiative over there?  All have been remarkably similar.  Win an area, leave or standby as the bugs return, then repeat.  There's a darn good reason that generals and folks from both parties have demanded Bush either move it to 300k troops, or gradually move out of the cities.  Cause they know the score.  It's a stall war.  i know it sucks, cause you're there, and to think your position is to 'hurry up and wait' really sucks when being shot at. 

all of that is your opinion.  none of it is correct.
only history will show if you're right. 

The history of the last 3.5 years shows I am, so far.  Until Bush shifts troop numbers significantly, nothing will change.

240, what do you think the US should do with Iran??
you may have stated this before, but humor me for right now.

iran only started their nuke program after being labeled in the Axis of evil, and after we took out their neighbors on either side.  That oil HAS to flow thru them, and they know it ;)

Iran has asked, no, BEGGED, for talks.  They don't want war.  They're rich and they have a great deal to lose in an inevitable conclusion (adhmedijahad hanging, of course).  They've asked for talks.  We've said "no talks till all your nukes (your only means of deterring a US invasion) are gone".

If they agreed to immediately drop all nuke programs, let 1000 UN and US inspectors have freereign to all facilities to ensure compliance, then we agree not to invade them.  period.  Reasonable?

(Of course this will never happen.  We WILL invade iran based upon the new dossier the WH says is coming out this week which will prove Iran is doing terror and should justify the attack on them.  It's inevitable.  Afghan and iraqi oil will meet iranian oil in the middle and flow into US ships in the persian gulf.  it's necessary for our stability, of course.  But to paint it with an honorable or compassionat brush is BS.  It's self-preservation thru resource acquisition.  most ppl just don't have the stomach to admit it)

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2007, 01:08:00 PM »
America lives in the now, not the maybe or the tomorrow. We wanted to invade when we thirsted for blood from 9/11 and when we heard saddam had WMD's and was a threat, naturally fucking liberals fucked us and we wouldn't allow our trained military to fight like we should, and got stuck there for too long and now (again) liberals are fucking us by telling us constantly on tv that the war is bad and unjust blah blah blah. Liberalism is a mental disorder, plain and simple.

KLIBERALS THIS LIBERAL THAT.. OH BROTHER..

ONE THINGS FOR SURE IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE WILL TO SUPPORT A MEANINGLESS WAR THAT'S COSTING US LIVES AND TAX PAYER MONEY.

HAVE A NICE DAY!

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2007, 01:46:04 PM »
If they agreed to immediately drop all nuke programs, let 1000 UN and US inspectors have freereign to all facilities to ensure compliance, then we agree not to invade them.  period.  Reasonable?

they have already said they will not stop their nuke program.  10 times at least.

ok then, what do you do now??

they want to destroy israel and the US.  i have read that many times.  you know it's true.

so, do you continue to talk??  come on. 

invade them??  heck no.  we bomb the ever-lovin s**t out of them. 

and PS...i have never read or even heard that iran is "begging to talk" with the US. 

prove me wrong
W

ribonucleic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5158
  • I bring you ultimate reality!
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2007, 02:00:07 PM »
so, do you continue to talk??  come on. 

invade them??  heck no.  we bomb the ever-lovin s**t out of them. 

While allowing for the possibility that you could remain this contemptuous of the value of human life [you are at least still paying lip service to the idea that Iranian civilians are human beings, I hope] after actually seeing a bombing victim, I'm willing to bet that you've never witnessed a single military casualty of any kind.

Which would make your hockey-bleachers cheerleading for indiscriminate slaughter on the exact level of a schoolyard bully burning ants to death with a magnifying glass.

Hope this helps.

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2007, 02:14:42 PM »
While allowing for the possibility that you could remain this contemptuous of the value of human life [you are at least still paying lip service to the idea that Iranian civilians are human beings, I hope] after actually seeing a bombing victim, I'm willing to bet that you've never witnessed a single military casualty of any kind.

Which would make your hockey-bleachers cheerleading for indiscriminate slaughter on the exact level of a schoolyard bully burning ants to death with a magnifying glass.

Hope this helps.


war ain't pretty bro.  i'm more concerned with american civilians.  if you live in america, you should be too.
where in any of my statements did i say kill iranian civilians anyway??  please show me.

by your words i'm guessing if the US left the world alone we would all leave in peace??
 
bleeding hearts........pffft!!
W

ribonucleic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5158
  • I bring you ultimate reality!
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2007, 03:02:44 PM »

where in any of my statements did i say kill iranian civilians anyway??  please show me.

Your exact words were "bomb the ever-lovin s**t out of them".

That sure sounded like "carpet-bomb the towel heads back to the Stone Age and let Allah sort them out".

But let's give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you, credulous in the face of military boasting about "surgical strikes" and what-not, had in mind only the vaporizing of the top-secret underground bunkers where Iranian scientists are, by universal consensus, a decade away from making even a single damp-squib of a bomb like the North Koreans set off.

Then we'll need to introduce you to a scientific concept called "fallout". To explain this in terms that even a bloodthirsty moron might understand: when nuclear material is blown up, the nuclear stuff clings to the dirt that got sucked up into the atmosphere by the explosion. That dirt gets wafted whichever the way the wind is blowing and usually ends up falling on people who really wanted nothing to do with any of this to begin with. Those people get really sick and die slow painful deaths.

Now I'm going to challenge you to imagine that one of the people spending their final moments retching in agony is not some dirty brown-skinned camel jockey with a name you can't pronounce - but rather someone you really care about. Your mom, your kid brother, your training partner - whoever. I'm guessing you would be pretty mad at the country who did this to them. You might be so mad that you'd be willing to blow yourself up just for the opportunity of killing some of them in revenge.

Starting to see how it works? We indiscriminately kill a bunch of them, and then their surviving brothers get mad and try to kill us. Then we kill a larger number of them, and their surviving brothers get even madder at us... and so on. Bad times.

So how about this for thinking outside the box? We stop killing them. We just pack up all our sh!t and go home. [It would be nice if we left them a big check to cover all the stuff we broke - but frankly, with $8 trillion in debt, we can't afford it.] They'll probably spend a few years killing each other over who is the truer prophet of Allah and general pissed-offedness - but we recognize that we don't have a dog in that fight, so we stay out of it.

What's the downside?

Careful now! If you say anything about oil, you're tacitly admitting that the whole slaughter was about oil to begin with!

Of course, it was all about oil to begin with. So where does that leave us now? Well, we're pretty well fu#ked with the oil starting to run out anyway. But instead of fu#king ourselves even harder by wasting our money on bombs and making everyone hate us in the process, what if we spent that money adapting to what the world is going to be like when there isn't any oil left to fight over?

I won't lie to you: that world is going to be a lot less entertaining. But it has one critical feature that our present world does not.

A future.



240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2007, 03:04:51 PM »
Damn, ribo.  I truly enjoy your posts and would love to see your insight here more!!

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2007, 03:20:53 PM »
Damn, ribo.  I truly enjoy your posts and would love to see your insight here more!!

What insight??  He obviously lives in la-la land.
Let's say that you really get your way and we destroy all our nuclear weapons and stick daisies in our gun barrels and sit around with some white wine and cheese and pat ourselves on the back, so proud of what we've done for world peace.   
Let's say that we cut the military budget to just enough to keep the National Guard on hand to help out with floods and fires.
Let's say that we close down our military bases all over the world and  bring the troops home, increase our foreign aid and drop all the trade sanctions against everybody.  I suppose that in your fantasy world this would create a utopian world where everybody would live in peace. After all, the great monster, the United States of America, the cause of all the world's trouble would  have disbanded it's horrible military and certainly all the other countries of the world would follow suit. After all, they only arm themselves to defend their countries from the mean old U.S.A.
Let's say you had your way, what would become of this country?

No future.

Dude, it would be nice to live in you world but it doesn't exist.
W

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2007, 03:43:03 PM »
Yeah, but you didn't answer this:


What's the downside?

Careful now! If you say anything about oil, you're tacitly admitting that the whole slaughter was about oil to begin with!

ribonucleic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5158
  • I bring you ultimate reality!
Re: What is your prediction of what will happen in Iraq?
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2007, 04:15:50 PM »
Let's say that we close down our military bases all over the world and  bring the troops home, increase our foreign aid and drop all the trade sanctions against everybody.  I suppose that in your fantasy world this would create a utopian world where everybody would live in peace.

Not necessarily.

But, since it's never been tried, we can at least say that it's never been disproven in practice.

As opposed to the fantasies of the neofascists [i.e. "they'll greet us as liberators"] - which have been disproven in practice.