Author Topic: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate  (Read 4309 times)

Dos Equis

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Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« on: February 03, 2007, 10:49:48 AM »
Tough issue.  My wife and I completely disagree on how to deal the homeless and beggars.  She will give them money and food.  Irritates the heck out of me.  Bleeding heart.  I absolutely refuse to give street beggars anything.  Most of the ones I see are professionals who have been doing it for years.  They wouldn't be on the same corners if they weren't making money IMO.

Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate

By TODD LEWAN
AP National Writer
 
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- At Lake Eola park, there is much beauty to behold: robust palms, beds of cheery begonias, a cascading lake fountain, clusters of friendly egrets and swans, an amphitheater named in honor of Walt Disney.

Then there are the signs.

DO NOT LIE OR OTHERWISE BE IN A HORIZONTAL POSITION ON A PARK BENCH ... DO NOT SLEEP OR REMAIN IN ANY BUSHES, SHRUBS OR FOLIAGE ... per city code sec. 18A.09 (a) and (o).

Visit the park's restrooms, and you'll find this sign on the wall above the hand dryers:

BATHING AND/OR SHAVING IN RESTROOM IS PROHIBITED ... per city code 18A.09 (p) ... LAUNDERING CLOTHES IN LAKE EOLA PARK IS NOT PERMITTED.

Since joggers and dog walkers tend not to snooze in flower beds, and because employees at the glittering office towers around Lake Eola don't scrub laundry in park sinks, it's clear, says Monique Vargas, at whom the notices are targeted.

"They're talking to us, to the homeless," says Vargas, 28, who says she has lived on the streets, in parks or under overpasses, since age 16. "It's a way of saying, 'Your kind isn't wanted in our city.'"

Orlando, population 200,000, works hard to conjure the image of a true-life Pleasantville: a safe, welcoming place where visitors can soak up year-round sunshine and devour choreographed experiences at palm-ringed theme parks. But its spotless sidewalks, sparkling lakes and twinkling skyline belie a real city with real maladies - most notably, a surging homeless population that authorities are struggling to control.

After a law that banned panhandling was struck down by the courts, the city tried to discourage aggressive beggars by obliging them to carry ID cards, and later by confining them to 3-by-15-foot "panhandling zones" painted in blue on sidewalks downtown.

Despite these laws, the number of people living on the streets of the Orlando metro area swelled, from roughly 5,000 in 1999 to an estimated 8,500 today, dwarfing the city's shelter capacity for 2,000 people.

So in July, the city commission tried a "supply-side" approach: It passed an ordinance regulating the feeding of large groups of people in Orlando's downtown parks.

Those who wished to feed more than 25 hungry individuals at parks within a 2-mile radius of City Hall could do so, but only if they obtained a "Large Group Feeding Permit" from the parks department - and no one would be granted more than two feeding permits a year.

No exceptions.

For the first time anyone in Orlando could remember, not only would panhandlers find themselves in the crosshairs of the law, but so would those trying to help them. . . . .

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DO_NOT_FEED_THE_HOMELESS?SITE=HIHAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
 

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 11:08:58 AM »
beggars really piss me off.

Diesel1

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 11:18:58 AM »
Tough issue.  My wife and I completely disagree on how to deal the homeless and beggars.  She will give them money and food.  Irritates the heck out of me.  Bleeding heart.  I absolutely refuse to give street beggars anything.  Most of the ones I see are professionals who have been doing it for years.  They wouldn't be on the same corners if they weren't making money IMO.


yeah the homeless really piss me off too! especially those that are mentaly ill. How dare they not have anywhere to live and have the gall to ask for some small change.  ::)

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 11:25:01 AM »
There are places they can go which feed them 3 times a day and give them shelter at night.

When they drunkenly approach you and your family in supermarket parking lots to try to bumble thru their sob story as you put in the kids and groceries, that is bullshit.  You don't know them, they get in your personal space, they interrupt your life with unknowns, and that is not cool.  You don't know if it's some nice guy down on his luck, or some crazy fool with a blade on his last leg, and you are the guy he's gonna shiv to get a warm meal before they bring him in.

Diesel - question - would you be okay if there were 20 homeless people in the parking lot of every store you entered, every day?

Dos Equis

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 11:30:48 AM »
yeah the homeless really piss me off too! especially those that are mentaly ill. How dare they not have anywhere to live and have the gall to ask for some small change.  ::)

I distinguished homeless from beggars.  The beggars I have seen on the same street corners for years are not mentally ill.  They are businessmen.  They are making money. 

There is one mentally ill homeless man near my town.  He never begs.  In fact, he has refused my wife's offer of money and food.  Based on what I've seen, the mentally ill aren't the ones working people for money. 

The other day I was in a fast food place, standing in line reading a book.  A "homeless" man thought the book was a Bible (it wasn't).  He asked me if I was a Christian.  I said "yes."  He then told me he was hungry and asked if I could buy him some food.  I said "no."  He then stayed in line behind me and ordered food and paid for it!   >:(

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 11:35:20 AM »
He then told me he was hungry and asked if I could buy him some food.  I said "no."  He then stayed in line behind me and ordered food and paid for it!   >:(

what a punk.

Dos Equis

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 11:41:18 AM »
what a punk.

No doubt.  One regular in town will ask people for money with a cigarette in hand. 

mightymouse72

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 11:45:27 AM »
Tough issue.  My wife and I completely disagree on how to deal the homeless and beggars.  She will give them money and food.  Irritates the heck out of me.  Bleeding heart.  I absolutely refuse to give street beggars anything.  Most of the ones I see are professionals who have been doing it for years.  They wouldn't be on the same corners if they weren't making money IMO.


LOL.....i think your wife and mine must be related!!

although i love her kindness towards people, i have to keep her in check sometimes.

the one and only time i did give a bumb some money was when he approached me and said, sir, i'll be honest with you, i am drunk and i want to get more drunk and i would appreciate it if you would give me a dollar.  so i said thanks for your honesty and gave him a buck. 
W

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 11:51:51 AM »

LOL.....i think your wife and mine must be related!!

although i love her kindness towards people, i have to keep her in check sometimes.

the one and only time i did give a bumb some money was when he approached me and said, sir, i'll be honest with you, i am drunk and i want to get more drunk and i would appreciate it if you would give me a dollar.  so i said thanks for your honesty and gave him a buck. 

LOL.  They just might be!   ;D  I like your story.   :D

How about this.  When my wife I were dating (think we were about 19) a "homeless" man approached us at the taco shop and asked her to buy him some food.  Not just food, but a "carne asada burrito" (steak).  I told her, in front of him, "don't do it."  The guy had a beer belly.  Obviously not missing too many meals.  She did it anyway.  When she handed him the food he didn't say thank you.  He complained that she didn't give him taco sauce too!  I was ready to punch the guy.  I will never let her forget it.   :) 

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 11:52:30 AM »

LOL.....i think your wife and mine must be related!!

although i love her kindness towards people, i have to keep her in check sometimes.

the one and only time i did give a bumb some money was when he approached me and said, sir, i'll be honest with you, i am drunk and i want to get more drunk and i would appreciate it if you would give me a dollar.  so i said thanks for your honesty and gave him a buck. 

Women don't always have that same fight/flight/fuck/food response that men have.  Everything we look at, we mentally make a quick analysis of the situation and choose one of these options.

Women are more gullible, sadly.  Call it compassion, or call it ability to be infiltrated and put in a dangerous situation.

OneBigMan

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2007, 01:40:09 PM »
Homeless people should not be vilified :-\
I believe that because of urban legends I heard about what a few have done as good samaritans.

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2007, 01:49:49 PM »
I hate bums. What I like to do is ask them for money before they get a chance to ask me. Or if I am out and one ask me for money I just look him in the eye and keep walking. Dont say a word to them. One time when I was younger I had just got done eating at a restaurant and had a to go box, I got stopped at a red light right beside a bum and had my window down. He came up and ask me for money I told him no and then threw the food at him. He was pretty pissed but I thought it was funny as hell.

mightymouse72

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2007, 01:54:57 PM »
LOL.  They just might be!   ;D  I like your story.   :D

How about this.  When my wife I were dating (think we were about 19) a "homeless" man approached us at the taco shop and asked her to buy him some food.  Not just food, but a "carne asada burrito" (steak).  I told her, in front of him, "don't do it."  The guy had a beer belly.  Obviously not missing too many meals.  She did it anyway.  When she handed him the food he didn't say thank you.  He complained that she didn't give him taco sauce too!  I was ready to punch the guy.  I will never let her forget it.   :) 


here's a pretty gross story. 

a few years ago, me and a buddy of mine was at a local fast-food joint and there was an obvious homeless man sitting close to us eating a biscuit.  he looked and smelled like s**t, but minding his own buisness.  i kept watching him and noticed he started to pick up the salt and pepper shakers and licking them.  leaving this thick goo of saliva on top.  it made me hurl.  when he finished, he approached us asking for money.  then he left and i informed the workers what he done.

moral of the story: never use S&P shakers, ANYWHERE!!!!   
W

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2007, 05:25:44 AM »

Despite these laws, the number of people living on the streets of the Orlando metro area swelled, from roughly 5,000 in 1999 to an estimated 8,500 today, dwarfing the city's shelter capacity for 2,000 people.

Wow, what happened between 1999 and the present to see the homeless population soar so greatly?

There is a difference between people who are homeless, and people who are beggars.

I don't have a problem being approached by these people. Maybe Canadian beggars are different, but the truth is, I haven't noticed much difference between the ones in the US & the ones in Canada ...except the ones in Orlando are smart enough to be homeless in a climate that's hot & sunny year round. :P

If you happen to encounter a greedy, lazy, selfish SOB who doesn't say Thank You... so what? That shouldn't deter you from helping someone else. How many greedy, lazy, selfish people do we encounter in our day-to-day lives, who aren't homeless or beggars? Does that make us retreat into a hole and not have contact with any more people? Why should we then react the same way with someone who is homeless?

I will on occassion buy a homeless person food or share my food with them. Knowing I've made a small difference in someone's life is reward enough. A thank you is always nice, ...but it doesn't compare with knowing you've made a difference, whether they realize or appreciate it or not. I pray I never reach a point where I lose my compassion for those less fortunate than myself. I know I will eventually lose my looks, ...but to lose compassion for humanity is a kind of ugly, I pray never to approach.

We're no better than the homeless despite what society preaches. Our circumstances may be better, but we're not.
You never know how big an impact a tiny little difference can make in someone's life. For those of you who have contempt for the homeless, I'd like to suggest you volunteer at a homeless shelter, or even a food bank, so you can get a solid understanding of how many of them got there, actually see the people in those situations, ......and not just their situation. There but for the grace of God go you & I.

I ran into a girlfriend from highschool volunteering at the Food Bank. Her life is a living hell trying to reconcile her day job. She evicts people by day, throwing them out in the street, making them homeless... so she's trying to make penance by doing volunteer work at the food bank.  It's not working tho...  I think she's going to keep volunteering at the food bank... but she's looking for a different day job. {giggle}
w

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2007, 10:04:57 AM »

here's a pretty gross story. 

a few years ago, me and a buddy of mine was at a local fast-food joint and there was an obvious homeless man sitting close to us eating a biscuit.  he looked and smelled like s**t, but minding his own buisness.  i kept watching him and noticed he started to pick up the salt and pepper shakers and licking them.  leaving this thick goo of saliva on top.  it made me hurl.  when he finished, he approached us asking for money.  then he left and i informed the workers what he done.

moral of the story: never use S&P shakers, ANYWHERE!!!!   

Oh.  Dude.  I just had a flashback to Friday, when I piled the salt on my bland mushroom salad.   :-X  Good thing there were no homeless people in the restaurant.   :)

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Re: Orlando Homeless Laws Stir Heated Debate
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2007, 10:09:27 AM »
Wow, what happened between 1999 and the present to see the homeless population soar so greatly?

There is a difference between people who are homeless, and people who are beggars.

I don't have a problem being approached by these people. Maybe Canadian beggars are different, but the truth is, I haven't noticed much difference between the ones in the US & the ones in Canada ...except the ones in Orlando are smart enough to be homeless in a climate that's hot & sunny year round. :P

If you happen to encounter a greedy, lazy, selfish SOB who doesn't say Thank You... so what? That shouldn't deter you from helping someone else. How many greedy, lazy, selfish people do we encounter in our day-to-day lives, who aren't homeless or beggars? Does that make us retreat into a hole and not have contact with any more people? Why should we then react the same way with someone who is homeless?

I will on occassion buy a homeless person food or share my food with them. Knowing I've made a small difference in someone's life is reward enough. A thank you is always nice, ...but it doesn't compare with knowing you've made a difference, whether they realize or appreciate it or not. I pray I never reach a point where I lose my compassion for those less fortunate than myself. I know I will eventually lose my looks, ...but to lose compassion for humanity is a kind of ugly, I pray never to approach.

We're no better than the homeless despite what society preaches. Our circumstances may be better, but we're not.
You never know how big an impact a tiny little difference can make in someone's life. For those of you who have contempt for the homeless, I'd like to suggest you volunteer at a homeless shelter, or even a food bank, so you can get a solid understanding of how many of them got there, actually see the people in those situations, ......and not just their situation. There but for the grace of God go you & I.

I ran into a girlfriend from highschool volunteering at the Food Bank. Her life is a living hell trying to reconcile her day job. She evicts people by day, throwing them out in the street, making them homeless... so she's trying to make penance by doing volunteer work at the food bank.  It's not working tho...  I think she's going to keep volunteering at the food bank... but she's looking for a different day job. {giggle}

I have volunteered at a homeless shelter.  I don't lump panhandlers in the same category with all homeless people.  I specifically have a problem with the professional beggars, who make a living off people.  For years. 

There is one guy who has been at the same spot where all of us are coming into to town and have to stop at a certain light.  He wouldn't be there if he wasn't making money.  He changes his sign every once in a while, but it's always on cardboard and says something like:  "Homeless vet.  Hungry.  Please help.  God bless."  The one time I almost gave him money was shortly after the Iraq war started and he had a new sign that simply said "Bomb Iraq!"   ;D