Author Topic: Don't Support The Troops  (Read 7306 times)

ribonucleic

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2007, 06:32:05 PM »
Don't become guilty by association.

I'm curious, BRUCE...  Is this unrelenting imperiousness of yours just part of your Getbig persona? Or are you this way in real life too?

I picture some cashier giving you a nickel too little in change and you thundering "I have exposed you in a deliberate act of shortchanging a customer! You are a disgrace to your profession! Are you prepared to apologize for attempting to take advantage of me?"

Because, seriously, if you act this way in real life, sooner or later someone is going to radically contradict your sense of self-importance.

BRUCE

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2007, 06:47:32 PM »
I'm curious, BRUCE...  Is this unrelenting imperiousness of yours just part of your Getbig persona? Or are you this way in real life too?

I picture some cashier giving you a nickel too little in change and you thundering "I have exposed you in a deliberate act of shortchanging a customer! You are a disgrace to your profession! Are you prepared to apologize for attempting to take advantage of me?"

Because, seriously, if you act this way in real life, sooner or later someone is going to radically contradict your sense of self-importance.

Er, okay, 'hard man'.  Way to imagine a story and then conclude it with my (again imagined) comeuppance.  Am I to assume you are this much of a weasel in real life, too?

First Australian soldier killed in Iraq, eh?

Is his family upset that the Australian government sent him to his death in order to secure American access to Iraqi oil reserves?

Do you sneer over such brave deceased in real life too?

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ribonucleic

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2007, 06:52:53 PM »
Do you sneer over such brave deceased in real life too?

Brave, perhaps. Betrayed by his (your) government, absolutely.

If you choose to consider my pointing this out as "sneering", you go right ahead.

BRUCE

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2007, 06:56:38 PM »
Brave, perhaps. Betrayed by his (your) government, absolutely.

If you choose to consider my pointing this out as "sneering", you go right ahead.

I do, and the board will judge you accordingly.  How dare you find comfort in this familiy's pain, you're a sad little man indeed.
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headhuntersix

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2007, 07:39:46 PM »
240...u debate the war...i think ur nuts but ur not an asshole. THis guy is an asshole. Listen to Bruce..distance urself..don't defend this guy. Hey Bruce...Aussie SOF is kicking ass here. We worked with them and the kiwi's a few time..they rock.
L

ribonucleic

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2007, 07:44:31 PM »
I do, and the board will judge you accordingly.


BRUCE

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2007, 07:44:52 PM »
240...u debate the war...i think ur nuts but ur not an asshole. THis guy is an asshole. Listen to Bruce..distance urself..don't defend this guy. Hey Bruce...Aussie SOF is kicking ass here. We worked with them and the kiwi's a few time..they rock.

That's awesome HH, thanks so much for your post.  I think together we've actually woken up most of this board to Australia's involvement with our friends in the US, and the Aussies dedication to improving the situation in Iraq.  You are absolutely right to urge 240 to not be purveyed as a friend of Ribonucleic - he is not worth having as an ally.
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BRUCE

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2007, 07:46:08 PM »


Okay, anything constructive to add now, or have we just confirmed you have nothing positive to bring to this board?  You’ve harmed yourself badly here.
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OzmO

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2007, 07:48:55 PM »
Rib,  couple of questions:


-  are you an American citizen?

-  In 1-3 sentences can you explain why you don't support the troops if that is the case or if it is not why the topic?

headhuntersix

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2007, 07:51:27 PM »
I have relatives there as well so I gotta defend her. They are doing a great job here. Not alot of regular troops but plenty of Aussie SAS. I'm an All Blacks fan so don't hold it against me.
L

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2007, 07:53:35 PM »
I have relatives there as well so I gotta defend her. They are doing a great job here. Not alot of regular troops but plenty of Aussie SAS. I'm an All Blacks fan so don't hold it against me.

Don't worry, I won't - not a huge union fan myself!  I'm sure we'd all like to hear more about the troops if you're willing to share, Headhunter.  It's great to hear the Aussies are making their presence felt.
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Dos Equis

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2007, 07:59:18 PM »


 :)

The Univ. of Hawaii football now does the haka before every game (and after every win).  Love it. 

ribonucleic

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2007, 08:12:43 PM »
Rib,  couple of questions:


-  are you an American citizen?

-  In 1-3 sentences can you explain why you don't support the troops if that is the case or if it is not why the topic?

I am a native-born American - if that helps.  ::)

When a military force launches an unprovoked attack on a country that poses no threat to them and kills, at a bare minimum, 50,000 civilians, that is what is known as a "war crime" - even when the soldiers are brave and patriotic, even when they wear American uniforms. Regardless of any good intentions they had when they volunteered, regardless of how they have been misused by their commanders, every action they take to continue the hostile occupation of someone else's country is a furtherance of that war crime. I do not support war crimes or the people who abet them.

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2007, 08:16:07 PM »
I am a native-born American. White too, if that helps.  ::)

When a military force launches an unprovoked attack on a country that poses no threat to them and kills, at a bare minimum, 50,000 civilians, that is what is known as a "war crime" - even when the soldiers are brave and patriotic, even when they wear American uniforms. Regardless of any good intentions they had when they volunteered, regardless of how they have been misused by their commanders, every action they take to continue the hostile occupation of what we're encouraged to forget is someone else's country is a furtherance of that war crime. I do not support war crimes or the people who abet them.

You don't understand what a war crime is.

Perhaps you should note that the lion's share of those dead civilians you number are, in fact, the result of terror attacks in Iraq.  Where is your outrage against these folks?  Where is your 'I Hope The Terrorists Lose' thread?

No, you'd rather point the finger at your own nation, and admit you want your own soldiers to die.  You are as low as they come, unfortunately.
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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2007, 08:20:19 PM »
the lion's share of those dead civilians you number are, in fact, the result of terror attacks in Iraq. 

Does the question then become, did we create the situation in which terror attack can occur there?

There weren't terror attacks in Iraq before 2002.  now there are dozens/hundreds a day.

Perhaps a short transition time is okay.. but haven't these attacks gone on for 3-4 years now?  Dayum.  Which military planner can't secure one city in 4 years with 40,000 men and unlimited money?

Oddest of all - every general Bush puts in refuses to give a timeline for clearing the city of bad guys.  I guess you can't lose the race if you never have a finish line :(

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2007, 08:20:53 PM »
I am a native-born American. White too, if that helps.  ::)

When a military force launches an unprovoked attack on a country that poses no threat to them and kills, at a bare minimum, 50,000 civilians, that is what is known as a "war crime" - even when the soldiers are brave and patriotic, even when they wear American uniforms. Regardless of any good intentions they had when they volunteered, regardless of how they have been misused by their commanders, every action they take to continue the hostile occupation of what we're encouraged to forget is someone else's country is a furtherance of that war crime. I do not support war crimes or the people who abet them.

Thanks Rib.


The war crime should be charged to those who made the decision.  The rest of it, 50,000, all the destruction, etc...is what war is.   The soldiers are doing their job.  They are the ones who are putting their lives on the line..........not by choice, but by belief.  It's those young men and women who if ever a real war does occur we will truly owe our freedoms too. 

Don't get me wrong Rib,  i am very much against the war in iraq.  very much.  I have been since before it ever started.  But this war at the soldier level is about beliefs and they believe they are protecting our country.  In no way should we not support them.  But we can still be against what is going on there.

Have you ever been in combat Rib?

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2007, 08:26:10 PM »
Does the question then become, did we create the situation in which terror attack can occur there?

There weren't terror attacks in Iraq before 2002.  now there are dozens/hundreds a day.

Perhaps a short transition time is okay.. but haven't these attacks gone on for 3-4 years now?  Dayum.  Which military planner can't secure one city in 4 years with 40,000 men and unlimited money?

Oddest of all - every general Bush puts in refuses to give a timeline for clearing the city of bad guys.  I guess you can't lose the race if you never have a finish line :(

Do you consider Saddam using chemical weapons (WMD) on his own citizens state-funded terror?  If so, you will apologise for your statement above, and concede terror was frequent in Iraq before our involvement.
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ribonucleic

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2007, 08:33:27 PM »
Thanks Rib.


The war crime should be charged to those who made the decision.  The rest of it, 50,000, all the destruction, etc...is what war is.   The soldiers are doing their job.  They are the ones who are putting their lives on the line..........not by choice, but by belief.  It's those young men and women who if ever a real war does occur we will truly owe our freedoms too. 

Don't get me wrong Rib,  i am very much against the war in iraq.  very much.  I have been since before it ever started.  But this war at the soldier level is about beliefs and they believe they are protecting our country.  In no way should we not support them.  But we can still be against what is going on there.

Have you ever been in combat Rib?

Not even in a fist fight.

I agree that it is Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Wolfowitz who deserve to be sentenced as war criminals. And I am willing to believe that the majority of US servicemen have good intentions.

However, this does not absolve them of their personal moral responsibility. Camus said that in a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners. And every civilian they kill, even inadvertently, in the service of a blatantly criminal enterprise puts them on the side of the executioners.

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2007, 08:38:12 PM »
Do you consider Saddam using chemical weapons (WMD) on his own citizens state-funded terror?  If so, you will apologise for your statement above, and concede terror was frequent in Iraq before our involvement.

No.  Saddam was a dictator.  he ran a dictatorship.  He eliminated people in his nation he saw as threats to his govt.  Every nation does this.   Statistically, people were much less likely to be killed for walking to work during the saddam regime, than now.  I am sure you are not arguing this, right? 


Cavalier22

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2007, 08:41:38 PM »
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell
Valhalla awaits.

ribonucleic

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2007, 08:48:44 PM »
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell

Imaginary WMDs can't harm you.

a_joker10

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2007, 08:49:53 PM »
No.  Saddam was a dictator.  he ran a dictatorship.  He eliminated people in his nation he saw as threats to his govt.  Every nation does this.   Statistically, people were much less likely to be killed for walking to work during the saddam regime, than now.  I am sure you are not arguing this, right? 



Thats not true, or else there would only be one party in any democracy including the US.
Last I checked there will be another election in the US in 2 years and GWB can't even run again. I don't see any people in the US going to jail for speaking out against their country. In fact many have tenure or are acting in Hollywood.

Some of us still believe in the rule of law.
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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2007, 08:50:32 PM »
Not even in a fist fight.

I agree that it is Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Wolfowitz who deserve to be sentenced as war criminals.


It's not likley but if it can be proved that the they knew there were no WMD's then they should be put on trial

Not even in a fist fight.

And I am willing to believe that the majority of US servicemen have good intentions.


I'm a military brat.  I know and have known many military people in my lives,   they are hard working proffesional, dedicated, famliy oriented etc....   Of course there are bad apples, 99% mean well and have good intentions.  I don't if you have the same access as i have had over theyears but you should find out for your self.



However, this does not absolve them of their personal moral responsibility.


If we are talking about killing civilians or random torture i agree.

Camus said that in a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners. And every civilian they kill, even inadvertently, in the service of a blatantly criminal enterprise puts them on the side of the executioners.


It's all good what Camus said, however, just not within an army, it should apply only to the population of a country( the the great thing about our country:  we can do this).  However, to allow such in an  army would make it battle ineffective. 


BRUCE

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2007, 08:50:40 PM »
No.  Saddam was a dictator.  he ran a dictatorship.  He eliminated people in his nation he saw as threats to his govt.  Every nation does this.   Statistically, people were much less likely to be killed for walking to work during the saddam regime, than now.  I am sure you are not arguing this, right? 



Every nation uses WMD to destroy the lives of thousands of its own people?  Can you show me another nation that has gassed entire villages of its own citizens?  You have gone way off track on this one, I'm a bit shocked you've even said this.
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Cavalier22

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Re: Don't Support The Troops
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2007, 08:51:36 PM »
3) In joining, they’re acting in their financial best interests, like we all do. It’s not their fault, it’s the system.

Some equate the military to being on a public works project. Before you continue with this easy, lazy line of thought, be sure to draw a clear moral demarcation point between building a road and blasting someone’s head off.



So, the hundrends of thousands in the US military are just consciousless human beings who have no problem blowing off people's heads. Hell, it's why they signed up, right?? This article is ridiculous.

Valhalla awaits.