Author Topic: Incredible speech on iraq war  (Read 1170 times)

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Incredible speech on iraq war
« on: February 04, 2007, 07:42:12 AM »
"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.


I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair."

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2007, 07:43:20 AM »
Wise words.  Anyone know the author and the date?

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2007, 08:09:34 AM »
Wise words.  Anyone know the author and the date?
Since I made this post about a month ago, I know the answer ;D

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=116176.0

ribonucleic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5158
  • I bring you ultimate reality!
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2007, 08:19:34 AM »
Since I made this post about a month ago, I know the answer ;D

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=116176.0

Nice speech.

Now that he's running for President, we can expect him to lead the charge for impeachment!

No?

Hmm.

Well, he'll lead the charge to defund the war at least!

Hello?

Um, could he at least lead the charge for revising the Authorization for the Use of Military Force to explicitly forbid an attack on Iran without Congressional approval?

Is anyone there?

What was that the Godfather of Soul said?

"Just talkin' loud / And sayin' nothin'..."


ribonucleic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5158
  • I bring you ultimate reality!
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 08:22:40 AM »
Oh, did I remember to bitch about all the lip service he gives to his "faith"? How long before he's giving speeches at Jerry Falwell's college too?

Obama = McCain with Man Tan.

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 08:29:43 AM »
Nice speech.

Now that he's running for President, we can expect him to lead the charge for impeachment!

No?

Hmm.

Well, he'll lead the charge to defund the war at least!

Hello?

Um, could he at least lead the charge for revising the Authorization for the Use of Military Force to explicitly forbid an attack on Iran without Congressional approval?

Is anyone there?

What was that the Godfather of Soul said?

"Just talkin' loud / And sayin' nothin'..."


Good point. But it is noteworthy that the speech was made as a civilian at a time where the media was plastered with pundits and administration officials and even dems saying exactly the opposite.

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2007, 08:30:28 AM »
Oh, did I remember to bitch about all the lip service he gives to his "faith"? How long before he's giving speeches at Jerry Falwell's college too?

Obama = McCain with Man Tan.
I wouldn't go that far but then again I really hate McCain ;D

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2007, 09:50:25 AM »
Like John Edwards did this morning, I'd call it an uninformed speech.  Obama was a state legislator when he made this speech.  So, he didn't have the information members of Congress had when they uniformly declared Saddam a threat with WMDs.   

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2007, 09:58:32 AM »
Like John Edwards did this morning, I'd call it an uninformed speech.  Obama was a state legislator when he made this speech.  So, he didn't have the information members of Congress had when they uniformly declared Saddam a threat with WMDs.   

The US wasn't the only group looking at Saddam.  Edwards didn't mention the Downing Memo.  I wonder why? ;)

Both sets of information were there for all in Congress to use.  Some chose Bush's intel.  Some chose the world's consensus (no WMD capability yet).

Edwards made his decision, IMO, because it was the popular thing to do, and he wants to be liked.  He could have chosen either set of intel.  Dean and Obama chose the unpopular position here in the US, and were right.  Edwards went with the popular kids on this one.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2007, 10:20:02 AM »
The US wasn't the only group looking at Saddam.  Edwards didn't mention the Downing Memo.  I wonder why? ;)

Both sets of information were there for all in Congress to use.  Some chose Bush's intel.  Some chose the world's consensus (no WMD capability yet).

Edwards made his decision, IMO, because it was the popular thing to do, and he wants to be liked.  He could have chosen either set of intel.  Dean and Obama chose the unpopular position here in the US, and were right.  Edwards went with the popular kids on this one.

Edwards went with the overwhelming majority of the world and his liberal colleagues, like Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, etc., etc., etc. . . . .  They all had the information that Obama did not. 

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 10:22:34 AM »
Edwards went with the overwhelming majority of the world and his liberal colleagues, like Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, etc., etc., etc. . . . .  They all had the information that Obama did not. 

And the people who voted against the war who had the same intel?  How do you explain the Howard Deans of the world?

Also - "overwhelming majority of the world"? ???

You do know that the UN team said no WMD.  I mean, did ya forget about them?

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2007, 10:29:10 AM »
And the people who voted against the war who had the same intel?  How do you explain the Howard Deans of the world?

Also - "overwhelming majority of the world"? ???

You do know that the UN team said no WMD.  I mean, did ya forget about them?

How do I explain Howard Dean?  First, he wasn't in Congress.  Second, this about sums him up: 


The world believed Saddam was a threat and had WMDs.  I won't waste my time pulling up the UN resolution before we invaded and the plethora of comments from Republicans and Democrats who categorically stated Saddam was a threat and had WMDs.  I've posted them before on this board.  They all believed it. 

Now, what happened to them?  Who knows.  I suspect he sent them to Syria.  But we may never know.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2007, 10:56:44 AM »
The world believed Saddam was a threat and had WMDs.  I won't waste my time pulling up the UN resolution before we invaded and the plethora of comments from Republicans and Democrats who categorically stated Saddam was a threat and had WMDs.  I've posted them before on this board.  They all believed it. 

"The world".

You cannot quantify that.

The UN team on the ground in Iraq, which had inspected every site save Saddam's bedrooms and the such, said there were no WMD. 

So "THE WORLD" doesn't include hans Blix?

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2007, 12:37:26 PM »
"The world".

You cannot quantify that.

The UN team on the ground in Iraq, which had inspected every site save Saddam's bedrooms and the such, said there were no WMD. 

So "THE WORLD" doesn't include hans Blix?

"The world" includes the unanimous vote by the UN security council in 2002 and almost every single member of Congress, Democrat and Republican, who believed Saddam had WMDs.  That would include the resolutions voted on by Congress AFTER we invaded. 

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2007, 12:44:50 PM »
"The world" includes the unanimous vote by the UN security council in 2002 and almost every single member of Congress, Democrat and Republican, who believed Saddam had WMDs.  That would include the resolutions voted on by Congress AFTER we invaded. 

you're talking resolutions.  I'm talking INTELLIGENCE.

Congress doesn't vote for war to quelch WMD based upon resolutions made by another body.  They voted because of the intel saying WMD were a threat.  I think you're mixing the two up.  It doesn't matter if the UN passed 1 resolution or 50000 resolutions.  Edwards voted for war based upon WMD intel.  And THAT was very well varied. 

The UN team, the only one on teh ground in Iraq with all their cute little toys and tools, said there were zero WMD.   Therefore, their word should be the FIRST thing you look at.  yet you discount it.  odd.

ribonucleic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5158
  • I bring you ultimate reality!
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2007, 02:49:45 PM »
The UN team, the only one on teh ground in Iraq with all their cute little toys and tools, said there were zero WMD.   Therefore, their word should be the FIRST thing you look at.  yet you discount it.  odd.

The United Nations - at least in theory - does not recognize the authority of the United States to do whatever it wants at everyone else's expense. It also - at least in theory - condemns war as a means of furthering state policy.

Both these positions are utterly anathema to the right-winger - thus filling his frightened hate-filled heart with loathing and contempt. Which is why the right-wing's lunatic fringe believes that those French fags, treacherous yellow slant-eyes, and African savages at the UN are conspiring to put us under the thumb of their loathsome One World rule.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39256
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2010, 10:41:10 AM »
"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.


I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair."


and you didnt vote for obama.   ::)  ::)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39256
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2010, 10:44:41 AM »
"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.


I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair."


BUMP 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39256
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Incredible speech on iraq war
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2011, 09:49:22 AM »
BUMP -