Author Topic: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!  (Read 2568 times)

ribonucleic

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Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« on: February 04, 2007, 04:25:59 PM »
I will confess to having been extremely skeptical in the early years of the Bush Presidency that Cheney was really running the show. It seemed too facile an explanation for what I was convinced was a far more complicated situation. Until the 9/11 Commission report came out.

Even the watered-down version of events in the Commission's report made it absolutely clear that Cheney, ensconced in the White House bunker on the morning of the attacks, had issued shootdown orders outside of the chain of command and then conspired with the President to conceal this fact from the Commission.

Since then, I've gone from being open to the idea of an Imperial Vice Presidency to being convinced that historians will debate whether something approaching a Cheney-led coup d'etat has occurred, in which some of the powers of the Executive were extra-constitutionally usurped by the Office of the Vice President.

Last week, in trying to break the lock on who actually works in the OVP--which the Vice President refuses to reveal--the guys at Muckraker stumbled across this entry from a government directory known as the "Plum Book":

    The Vice Presidency is a unique office that is neither a part of the executive branch nor a part of the legislative branch, but is attached by the Constitution to the latter. The Vice Presidency performs functions in both the legislative branch (see article I, section 3 of the Constitution) and in the executive branch (see article II, and amendments XII and XXV, of the Constitution, and section 106 of title 3 of the United States Code).

It appears that Cheney's office submitted this entry in lieu of a list of its employees, as federal agencies must do. It sounds like something Cheney's current chief of staff, David Addington, might have written. Cheney and Addington have been the among the most powerful proponents of the theory of a "unitary executive," but there are indications that they have also advanced, though less publicly, a theory of a constitutionally distinct and independent vice presidency.

For a long time, talk of Cheney's unprecedented power carried with it a whiff of left-wing radicalism and Oliver Stone conspiracies. But in the last year, several serious journalistic efforts have explored the Cheney vice presidency. Robert Kuttner surveyed the field in his essay, "See Dick Run (the Country)," for The American Prospect. While it is axiomatic that Cheney is the power behind throne, what remains missing, as Kuttner pointed out, is the sort of relentless, day-to-day media coverage of Cheney that befits his claims to constitutional power:

    If Cheney were the actual president, not just the de facto one, he simply could not govern with the same set of policies and approval ratings of 20 percent. The media focuses relentless attention on the president, on the premise that he is actually the chief executive. But for all intents and purposes, Cheney is chief, and Bush is more in the ceremonial role of the queen of England.

    Yet the press buys the pretense of Bush being "the decider," and relentlessly covers Bush -- meeting with world leaders, cutting brush, holding press conferences, while Cheney works in secret, largely undisturbed. So let's take half the members of the overblown White House press corps, which has almost nothing to do anyway, and send them over to Cheney Boot Camp for Reporters. They might learn how to be journalists again, and we might learn who is running the government.



By custom and tradition, the Vice President's role had been circumscribed by how little express power and authority the Constitution granted the position. Hence, all the jokes over the years about the vice presidency. But in a move that is decidedly anti-conservative, in the conventional sense, Cheney moved to fill the void. I fear that what we will eventually find are structural flaws that were deliberately exploited by the OVP, which in turn further undermined constitutional and statutory structures.

Still, I can't help but be fascinated by the more pedestrian issue of how Cheney continues to assert himself so vigorously without running up against the ego of a cocksure President. How is it that Bush, who is so caught up in macho public demonstrations of his own personal strength and courage, can tolerate a shadow presidency within his own White House? What kind of spell has Cheney cast that allows Bush to continue to believe he is the decider? You can imagine all sorts of dysfunctional psychological dramas playing out behind the scenes.

But whether it's the legal or political aspect of Cheney's role, it all comes down to the same thing: we just don't know.

It's about time we find out.


-- David Kurtz

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012263.php

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2007, 05:18:12 PM »
'Brutal ownage'?  Good to see you bring your main board childishness with you.
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ribonucleic

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2007, 05:26:50 PM »
'Brutal ownage'?  Good to see you bring your main board childishness with you.

You're right: there's plenty of room for that over there. Point taken.


BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2007, 05:31:53 PM »
You're right: there's plenty of room for that over there. Point taken.



Thank you, I appreciate it.
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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 06:25:07 PM »
'Brutal ownage'?  Good to see you bring your main board childishness with you.

Do you think bush is clearly the one running things at the White House?

ribonucleic

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 06:30:30 PM »
Do you think bush is clearly the one running things at the White House?

He told us he's the Decider.

When he has ever lied to us?


BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2007, 06:45:06 PM »
Do you think bush is clearly the one running things at the White House?

Categorically, yes.
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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2007, 06:55:40 PM »
Categorically, yes.

What's your take on Bush admitting he didn't consult with Rumsfeld before invading Iraq?

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2007, 07:03:59 PM »
What's your take on Bush admitting he didn't consult with Rumsfeld before invading Iraq?

Did he?  Your proof?
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ribonucleic

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2007, 07:06:49 PM »
What's your take on Bush admitting he didn't consult with Rumsfeld before invading Iraq?

You're going to tell God that you're asking Donald Rumsfeld for a second opinion?

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East." - George W. Bush

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 07:24:07 PM »
You're going to tell God that you're asking Donald Rumsfeld for a second opinion?

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East." - George W. Bush

Oh dear, now reporting back to us quotes from the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen?  Keep in mind, board members, this person had obvious reasons to falsify a quote from GWB.  Also remember this quote was translated from English, to Arabic, and then back to English.

In other words, it depends who you believe when you read this quote.  Use caution.
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2007, 07:27:47 PM »
Oh dear, now reporting back to us quotes from the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen?  Keep in mind, board members, this person had obvious reasons to falsify a quote from GWB.  Also remember this quote was translated from English, to Arabic, and then back to English.

In other words, it depends who you believe when you read this quote.  Use caution.

Considering many of us if not most of us don't trust or believe in our current President your caution might not hold the weight you want it to.

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2007, 07:32:46 PM »
Oh dear, now reporting back to us quotes from the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen?  Keep in mind, board members, this person had obvious reasons to falsify a quote from GWB.  Also remember this quote was translated from English, to Arabic, and then back to English.

In other words, it depends who you believe when you read this quote.  Use caution.

Do you have the original English quote?

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2007, 07:33:53 PM »
Considering many of us if not most of us don't trust or believe in our current President your caution might not hold the weight you want it to.

Maybe, but you will have to weigh this against your judgement of the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister, who no doubt you have very sound belief in.  
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ribonucleic

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2007, 07:34:01 PM »
In other words, it depends who you believe when you read this quote.  Use caution.

I find it 100% consistent with everything that's known about his rancid personality.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if he didn't say it, he should have.

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2007, 07:35:28 PM »
I find it 100% consistent with everything that's known about his rancid personality.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if he didn't say it, he should have.

Yes, you're a bile spitting conspirator, aren't you?  As I've proven today, you have tried to deceive this board more than once. 
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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2007, 07:36:53 PM »
Yes, you're a bile spitting conspirator, aren't you?  As I've proven today, you have tried to deceive this board more than once. 

Bruce,

Has George W. Bush ever lied to the American people?

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2007, 07:38:25 PM »
Maybe, but you will have to weigh this against your judgement of the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister, who know doubt you have very sound belief in. 

Ouch, that was biting.

The point is we're at a point in time when our President is not trusted in any meaningful way. Whether you're a Bush supporter or opponent you should recognize the situation is not a good one and that it needs to change.

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2007, 07:39:47 PM »
I will confess to having been extremely skeptical in the early years of the Bush Presidency that Cheney was really running the show. It seemed too facile an explanation for what I was convinced was a far more complicated situation. Until the 9/11 Commission report came out.

Even the watered-down version of events in the Commission's report made it absolutely clear that Cheney, ensconced in the White House bunker on the morning of the attacks, had issued shootdown orders outside of the chain of command and then conspired with the President to conceal this fact from the Commission.

Since then, I've gone from being open to the idea of an Imperial Vice Presidency to being convinced that historians will debate whether something approaching a Cheney-led coup d'etat has occurred, in which some of the powers of the Executive were extra-constitutionally usurped by the Office of the Vice President...

Fool!  You have "owned" no one but yourself!

Perhaps if you, and the rest of the electorate had connected the dots more quickly, your country would not be in the mess in which it now finds itself.  Bah! 

Doom disapproves

ribonucleic

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2007, 07:45:21 PM »
Perhaps if you, and the rest of the electorate had connected the dots more quickly, your country would not be in the mess in which it now finds itself.  Bah! 

Doom disapproves


The Bushes are kind of the Von Dooms of America, now that I think about it.

What are the immigration policies in Latveria?

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2007, 07:49:30 PM »
The Bushes are kind of the Von Dooms of America, now that I think about it.

What are the immigration policies in Latveria?

Care to deal with any of the facts presented to you yet?
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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2007, 08:03:13 PM »
Care to deal with any of the facts presented to you yet?

I like it when your facts come from Australian reporters and completely destroy what the US Congress and CBS tells us.

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2007, 08:04:46 PM »
I like it when your facts come from Australian reporters and completely destroy what the US Congress and CBS tells us.

I take it that you have admitted defeat on this, then.  Did I not note my sources above?? Let's review them, for your benefit:

- The UN
- The US Senate
- The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute

'Understand' now?
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ribonucleic

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2007, 08:09:47 PM »
Care to deal with any of the facts presented to you yet?

By "facts", I take it you mean your undocumented counter-claim that the other guy was lying?  ::)

What's there to deal with? In the absence of an audiotape, it can only come down to their respective credibility...

Bush is a publicly exposed serial liar. And the other guy reports words that are 100% consistent with Bush's public words and behavior.

BRUCE

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Re: Cheney's brutal ownage of Bush!
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2007, 08:12:29 PM »
By "facts", I take it you mean your undocumented counter-claim that the other guy was lying?  ::)

What's there to deal with? In the absence of an audiotape, it can only come down to their respective credibility...

Bush is a publicly exposed serial liar. And the other guy reports words that are 100% consistent with Bush's public words and behavior.

But surely to believe this, as Bush has denied it, you are claiming Bush is a liar.  How is that any better than my argument?  We are both debating ambiguity, are we not?  This quote is not a fact, wake up.
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