Author Topic: its our fault there is chaos?  (Read 1713 times)

Cavalier22

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its our fault there is chaos?
« on: February 07, 2007, 02:11:15 PM »
Iraqis were given their freedom, and yet many have chosen civil war. Among all these religious prejudices, ancient wounds, social resentments and tribal antagonisms, who gets the blame for the rivers of blood? You can always count on some to find the blame in America. "We did not give them a republic," insists Newsweek's Fareed Zakaria. "We gave them a civil war."

Of all the accounts of the current situation, this is by far the most stupid. And the most pernicious. Did Britain "give" India the Hindu-Muslim war of 1947-48 that killed a million souls and ethnically cleansed 12 million more? The Jewish-Arab wars in Palestine? The tribal wars of post-colonial Uganda?

We gave them a civil war? Why? Because we failed to prevent it? Do the police in America have on their hands the blood of the 16,000 murders they failed to prevent last year?

Thousands of brave American soldiers have died trying to counter, put down and prevent civil strife. They fight Sunni insurgents in Fallujah, Ramadi and Baghdad, trying to keep them from sending yet one more suicide bomber into a crowded Shiite market. They hunt Shiite death squads in Baghdad to keep them from rounding up random Sunnis and torturing them to death. Just this week, we lost two helicopter pilots who were supporting the troops on the ground fighting the "Soldiers of Heaven" outside Najaf to prevent the slaughter of innocents in a Shiite-Shiite war within a war.

Our entire strategy has been to fight one side and then the other to try to prevent sectarian violence -- a policy that has been one of the leading reasons Americans are ready to quit and walk away. They can understand one-front wars, but they can't understand two-, three- and four-front wars, with Americans fighting any and all in sequence and sometimes in combination.

And at the political level, we've been doing everything we can to bring reconciliation. We got the Sunnis to participate in elections and then in parliament. Who is pushing the Shiite-Kurdish coalition for a law that would distribute oil revenue to the Sunnis? Who is pushing for a more broadly based government to exclude Moqtada al-Sadr and his sectarian Mahdi Army?

We have made a lot of mistakes in Iraq. But when Arabs kill Arabs and Shiites kill Shiites and Sunnis kill all in a spasm of violence that is blind and furious and has roots in hatreds born long before America was even a republic, to place the blame on the one player, the one country, the one military that has done more than any other to try to separate the combatants and bring conciliation is simply perverse.

It infantilizes Arabs. It demonizes Americans. It willfully overlooks the plainest of facts: Iraq is their country. We midwifed their freedom. They chose civil war.
Valhalla awaits.

ribonucleic

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2007, 04:20:36 PM »
It willfully overlooks the plainest of facts:Iraq is their country.

LOL

It's this kind of "history is last week's People magazine" perspective that gives imperial rationalizations a bad name.  :)

Iraq is the country that was assigned to them by Britain and France after the World War [they didn't know then - at least not officially - that it would only be the first] through the Sykes-Picot Agreement - the divvying-up-the-spoils contract they signed after killing the Ottoman Empire and taking their stuff.

If any Sunnis, Shias, or Kurds were consulted in the drafting of this Agreement, history does not record it.  ::)

youandme

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2007, 06:31:27 PM »
It infantilizes Arabs. It demonizes Americans. It willfully overlooks the plainest of facts: Iraq is their country. We midwifed their freedom. They chose civil war.
Yeah their country ::)  And they choose civil war ::)

ribonucleic

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2007, 06:36:49 PM »
Yeah their country ::)  And they choose civil war ::)

Translation: "Oww! History stuff makes my head hurt!  :'(  Can't I just kill everyone now?"

headhuntersix

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2007, 07:53:12 PM »
Yeah..because u disagree and see America as the big bad guy..its wrong..gimme a break. ::)
L

chaos

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2007, 09:21:25 PM »
yes it is our fault I am here :D
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Cavalier22

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2007, 07:41:25 AM »
Yeah their country ::)  And they choose civil war ::)

So who chose civil war?  Just because they have proved they are incapable of living together without bombing each other's marketplaces and mosques does not mean it is the US's fault. 
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Camel Jockey

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2007, 09:23:13 AM »


If any Sunnis, Shias, or Kurds were consulted in the drafting of this Agreement, history does not record it.  ::)


Yes! Iraq should have been split into three seperate nations. The only reason Iraqis did co-exist was because of Saddam's ruthlessness and now he's gone.

Let's take a look at the US. No foreign power created this nation, but rather some thinking men did in accordance with one another. That's how a nation is formed.

youandme

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2007, 09:25:55 AM »
So who chose civil war? 

Seemed to be living just fine until US invaded.

Camel Jockey

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2007, 09:35:49 AM »
Yes, the US has to take a share of the blame. First, the US should not have destabilized Iraq, but they did just that by invading a country that had no WMD's and was of no threat to US citizens or Israel.

Cavalier, you do have the right to be angry about the loss of US lives overseas. But think for a second, are the all the Iraqis to blame for the violence? You can't supress centuries of built up hate, so what you do is duke it out. Maybe after 100 years of blowing the shit out of each other they'll finally wake the fuck up and abandon that durka durka jihadist nonsense. This can happen, but the US has to bail outta Iraq.

Another thing we can hope for is that after we leave, Iran will start to influence Iraq. Sure, they'll support the Shia, but they're both Shia countries and I think they both can benefit from one another. The US doesn't want Iran controling Iraq, nor do they want any other Middle Eastern countries co-existing together and disagreeing with US foreign policy. The US should keep its nose out of their affairs. That's one tool in fighting the war on terror the US has ignored so far.

Cavalier22

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2007, 05:54:29 PM »
Seemed to be living just fine until US invaded.

you know are a backward, pathetic, medieval culture when living under a bloodthirsty tyrant who had murdered 100s of thousands of his own citizens "living just fine".  most countries would flourish once their despot is removed-not these barbarians. 

We should have known better.
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youandme

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Re: its our fault there is chaos?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2007, 06:11:47 PM »
you know are a backward, pathetic, medieval culture when living under a bloodthirsty tyrant who had murdered 100s of thousands of his own citizens "living just fine".  most countries would flourish once their despot is removed-not these barbarians. 

We should have known better.

it is what it is.