Author Topic: Bruce has an identity crisis  (Read 7943 times)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63756
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2007, 11:50:48 PM »

Bruce, for the dull of mind among us...what exactly does the word "Leftist" mean? Thanks in advance.

I would say no... with much merriment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Ding!   :)  My impression of "progressives" is they are liberals by another name.  In fact, I think every person I have ever met who called themselves "progressive" was actually a liberal.  I think the term may have become prominent after many conservatives were able to soil the term liberal and make it a dirty word.   

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2007, 05:34:08 AM »
Ding!   :)  My impression of "progressives" is they are liberals by another name.  In fact, I think every person I have ever met who called themselves "progressive" was actually a liberal.  I think the term may have become prominent after many conservatives were able to soil the term liberal and make it a dirty word.    
Wrong... I know you're dead set on making up your own meaning to some terms like neo-con but please, there is a history to the progressive movement that goes farther back than running from the liberal label...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Example of a popular magazine for progressives that was founded in 1909 and is popular still today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Progressive
http://www.progressive.org/

Are progressives lefties, yup...  Is it a term that came to prominence to hide from a liberal label, nope... I know many self -pronounced progressives that also call themselves liberal.

Deedee

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5067
  • They sicken of the calm, who knew the storm.
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2007, 06:16:58 AM »
I thought "Leftist" was used mainly to label "radical left wingers" or "communists."  I just don't see many of those around these parts. Certainly not enough to make the sweeping statement that most of the posters here fall under the category of either.  But perhaps I just don't grasp the concept.  That's why I was asking.

Deedee

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5067
  • They sicken of the calm, who knew the storm.
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2007, 06:23:55 AM »
Wrong... I know you're dead set on making up your own meaning to some terms like neo-con but please, there is a history to the progressive movement that goes farther back than running from the liberal label...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism



I already posted that entry for them.  Maybe repetition helps.  Like when you conjugate verbs in a foreign language.

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2007, 06:35:58 AM »
I already posted that entry for them.  Maybe repetition helps.  Like when you conjugate verbs in a foreign language.
If beach had read the entry he wouldn't have thought it a contemporary usage because liberal had been spoiled.  No, it's my understanding that repitition does no good, people will believe what they want to believe.  Sorry, I didn't read your post where you posted the link.  But I did go a little different route pointing out through the popular magazine, the progressive, that the term has been in use for many for quite some time.

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2007, 06:47:14 AM »
I thought "Leftist" was used mainly to label "radical left wingers" or "communists."  I just don't see many of those around these parts. Certainly not enough to make the sweeping statement that most of the posters here fall under the category of either.  But perhaps I just don't grasp the concept.  That's why I was asking.
If you're being technical about the left leaning members of the board, you're right, if you're speaking of how the left leaning board members are painted by the right, you're wrong... We seem to often fall into the "Pinko Commie" group.  I for one have been along with some other labeled in an extreme fashion by board righties.. 

It's not even limited to this board, they love to attempt to lump anything left with radical left:

In American politics, the word "leftist" is often used as a perjorative, without any of the meanings actually associated with the political left. For example, in Bill O'Reilly's syndicated column [11], under the headline "Leftist media members define American culture", O'Reilly identifies the film "An Inconvenient Truth" and the musical group "Dixie Chicks" as "leftist". He goes on to say, "Almost every major pop culture magazine tilts left. The network news broadcasts tilt left. Hollywood is a bastion of far-left thought. The teacher's unions are far left." O'Reilly contrasts these "leftist" organizations with "...the pool of well-informed, clear-thinking Americans...", which he says is shrinking.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leftist#Perjorative_use_of_the_word_.22leftist.22 there are actually many many examples like this, just listen to 15 minutes of Hannity and you'll see what I mean ;D

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2007, 07:37:03 AM »
Ok, the purpose of this thread was only to point out that Bruce claimed to approach things without bias saying he was agnostic and couldn't be of the right by definition.  His words... I just wanted to call BS on that as I think bias is apparent in his time here:

Your Favourite Conservative Pundit!! LOL
Get Informed - Michael Crichton's Speech on Complexity and Left-Wing MythsAttack on Left wing stances.
Nuclear Power – Unfairly Demonised Rightwing energy beliefs.
President Bush's 'Fake' Turkey!! Odd support for Bush assuming his intention was critical of the story.
An Inconvenient Truth - Hot Air rightwing position.
doesn't look like he's pro-choice... http://www.getbig.com/boards/Themes/Getbig%20Yellow/images/post/xx.gif
Relax - Greenland Isn't Meltingright leaning position against global warming.
Global Warming Preaching - What Are You Doing? want's no more "pontificating" on the matter... ::)

when called a conservative by ieffinhatecardio, he doesn't deny it, he says: "True conservatives have always taken such a position on complex and debated matters.  To draw definite conclusions from such conjecture is called belief, and is based on faith rather than facts.  Genuine conservatives never indulge in such things."<==which is a very funny quote knowing a lot of conservatives do indeed indulge in faith over facts... often...


ieffinhatecardio

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5202
  • More proof God is a man.
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2007, 07:50:01 AM »
Clearly this bruce guy has been proven to be a blowhard and not particularly honest.

The funniest part of all this is that he's Australian yet is consumed by our politics.

Interesting side not, the conservative political party in Australia is called the Liberal party.  ;D

Political Parties
Despite its name, the Liberal Party is the major conservative party.


http://www.australianpolitics.com/

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63756
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2007, 09:43:22 AM »
Wrong... I know you're dead set on making up your own meaning to some terms like neo-con but please, there is a history to the progressive movement that goes farther back than running from the liberal label...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Example of a popular magazine for progressives that was founded in 1909 and is popular still today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Progressive
http://www.progressive.org/

Are progressives lefties, yup...  Is it a term that came to prominence to hide from a liberal label, nope... I know many self -pronounced progressives that also call themselves liberal.

You mean we have a difference of opinion?  No way.   :)  I'm telling you what my experience has been.  You apparently have a different one?  What I described was my experience with "progressives."  I have never met a "progressive" who was really an independent, libertarian, or conservative, but everyone I have encountered was really a liberal when all is said and done.  Many liberals are sensitive about being called a liberal these days, but I don't believe it is an insult at all. 

And regarding "neocon," did you ever discuss with Ozmo why he defines "neocons" as people with extreme conservative views? 

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63756
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2007, 09:46:42 AM »
I already posted that entry for them.  Maybe repetition helps.  Like when you conjugate verbs in a foreign language.

I read the link.  It discusses history, etc. but that really has nothing to do with how people take labels like "neocon" and "progressive" and use them in any manner they deem fit.  It actually happens on this board.   :)

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2007, 12:49:13 PM »
You mean we have a difference of opinion?  No way.   :)  I'm telling you what my experience has been.  You apparently have a different one?  What I described was my experience with "progressives."  I have never met a "progressive" who was really an independent, libertarian, or conservative, but everyone I have encountered was really a liberal when all is said and done.  Many liberals are sensitive about being called a liberal these days, but I don't believe it is an insult at all. 

And regarding "neocon," did you ever discuss with Ozmo why he defines "neocons" as people with extreme conservative views? 
I was speaking not on your experience but on the line I highlighted from your post.  Only the portion noting the suspicion that the term progressive became "prominent after many conservatives were able to soil the term liberal and make it a dirty word"  I don't disagree that those who carry the progressive label are liberal.  Nope, for the most part, I pretty much agree with that...

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2007, 12:57:18 PM »
I read the link.  It discusses history, etc. but that really has nothing to do with how people take labels like "neocon" and "progressive" and use them in any manner they deem fit.  It actually happens on this board.   :)
You might also note the people who attempt to use these classifications properly... they're also on the board ;) It might also be noted that some and you know who, attempt to ignore people who wish said classifications to be used properly by pointing out the correct use. ;D

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2007, 01:28:13 PM »

The funniest part of all this is that he's Australian yet is consumed by our politics.


Haha! I find that pretty amusing too. Maybe we should start a thread about John Howard, or australia's koala population.  ;D

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63756
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2007, 08:05:24 PM »
You might also note the people who attempt to use these classifications properly... they're also on the board ;) It might also be noted that some and you know who, attempt to ignore people who wish said classifications to be used properly by pointing out the correct use. ;D

Berserker I understand where you're coming from, but does it really matter if there is a textbook definition that many people ignore?  I think you're fighting a losing battle. 

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2007, 09:45:43 PM »
Berserker I understand where you're coming from, but does it really matter if there is a textbook definition that many people ignore?  I think you're fighting a losing battle. 
It matters when entire arguments are nullified by the notion that the word doesn't mean what it's suppose to mean.  Actually you're the only person I fight on this so it's not much of a battle.  If it's lost, Ok...  It's not like I'm on a mission with this ;D

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63756
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2007, 11:41:19 PM »
It matters when entire arguments are nullified by the notion that the word doesn't mean what it's suppose to mean.  Actually you're the only person I fight on this so it's not much of a battle.  It it's lost, Ok...  It's not like I'm on a mission with this ;D

Me neither.  I ain't dying on this hill.   ;D

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Bruce has an identity crisis
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2007, 05:19:04 AM »
Me neither.  I ain't dying on this hill.   ;D
see, it's not a big battle ;D Just a point trying to be made.  A lot of points I have to make about much of what's going on today uses the term neocon.  If I can't use the term without the terms definitions being accepted, there's not much point hashing out the issue with the person who does that to begin with.  So while it's not a big deal, you shouldn't be willing to use it as a road block to stop the debate.  Know what I mean ;)