According to some here, terrorim started during the Bush reign

[Camel Jockey]

Just because people have differing opinions means just that.  It doesn't automatically make them Bush haters and terrorist lovers.

Open your ears as well as your minds.  This is specifically to cap86 if you really believe people posting on this forum think terrorism started with Bush. 
Also, specifically to Mighty mouse 72 if you really believe people posting here are supporters of sadaam and terrorism.

Sandra

Good post, Sandra. I'm so sick of all the "You love terrorists" or "You hate America" bs. Just because you have a difference in opinion doesn't mean you hate your country and support the enemy. I think people make up lables because they can't argue a point.

[OzmO]

good post beach.
but i think it's moot, they will still defend saddam and terrorists

get off it, MM72, libs and anyone who cirtisizes the war ARE NOT DEFENDing saddam!!!!!!  They are attacking the IDIOT (bush) who started the war that has COST us and HAS NOT help curb terrorism but INSTAED helped it grow!!


This shit in unbelievalbe what people let themselves believe when it comes to reps and dems!

[BRUCE]

That is not a fact.

-Hedge

Yes, it is - Hedge.  And the fact you won't admit it is frightening, but typical of the European 'approach' to dealing with terrorism.

Here's a little something for your perusal, let me know if you can find a list from another religion that outstrips it:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

And that's just the last three months!

Until you and I can both agree Islam has a problem adapting to the new world (to put it very lightly), we're both going to have a problem doing something about it.



I'll say it again, so we can get serious - rather than letting our Political Correctness stop us from speaking the truth.

Most terrorists are Islamic.

Got it yet?

[OzmO]

Yes, it is - Hedge.  And the fact you won't admit it is frightening, but typical of the European 'approach' to dealing with terrorism.

Here's a little something for your perusal, let me know if you can find a list from another religion that outstrips it:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

And that's just the last three months!

Until you and I can both agree Islam has a problem adapting to the new world (to put it very lightly), we're both going to have a problem doing something about it.



I'll say it again, so we can get serious - rather than letting our Political Correctness stop us from speaking the truth.

Most terrorists are Islamic.

Got it yet?

I agree with much of this BRUCE.

But i believe Violent Radical Islam thrives in the fertle ground of a 3rd world culture and country.   Modern Muslims, at least in the USA are more practical about what they believe.  I have many friends who are muslim and are just like any other christain on friday night at a bar.  I realize that may not be the case in England as i've read some stupid stuff that's going on there, but it's somewhat englands fault for allowing it to happen.  that kind of crap wouldn't be tolerated here in the USA.  How is it in Aussy?

[BRUCE]

I agree with much of this BRUCE.

But i believe Violent Radical Islam thrives in the fertle ground of a 3rd world culture and country.   Modern Muslims, at least in the USA are more practical about what they believe.  I have many friends who are muslim and are just like any other christain on friday night at a bar.  I realize that may not be the case in England as i've read some stupid stuff that's going on there, but it's somewhat englands fault for allowing it to happen.  that kind of crap wouldn't be tolerated here in the USA.  How is it in Aussy?

Thanks, Ozmo.  As if I haven't gone on about this enough already, Mark Steyn's excellent new book America Alone addresses all of the issues you raise in your post.

At one point in his book, he describes the difference between 'moderate' and 'extreme' Islam as being the difference between two men that want your country to be ruled by Sharia law - only one isn't willing to fly a plane into a building to get his way.  Europe is in deep trouble for reasons of demographics, lack of will and complete subservience to its recently arrived Muslim population.  The Pan-Islamic identity in these countries is trumping the will of these immigrants to identify with the nation they now reside, Europe will soon be Eurabia.

The USA and Australia seem to be the only countries left that are resisting this tide.  Steyn says the difference between a group of young Muslims (not 'youths' as they're usually called) in England celebrating 9/11, and the same group in Texas, is a man reaching into his glove compartment and letting the jihadists know who is boss.

[Camel Jockey]

The USA and Australia seem to be the only countries left that are resisting this tide.  Steyn says the difference between a group of young Muslims (not 'youths' as they're usually called) in England celebrating 9/11, and the same group in Texas, is a man reaching into his glove compartment and letting the jihadists know who is boss.

I'm guessing you don't have much experience in dealing with muslims in the United States? Most of the muslims here would describe themselves as muslim, but are non practicing and don't really care. Seems to be different in Europe and Australia. The muslims in the US are quite a sucessful demographic, not the case in Australia and Europe, where they seem to be welfare junkies. Maybe Europe should reform its welfare system and force people to integrate, if they don't, then they're out. You don't have that pussy apologist mentality in America, that's why we, despite our fucked up situation with illegals, still handle immigration better than any other country.

My brothers owned several firearms and I'd be willing to take out a .45 to show an Islamist who's boss, but I've never once seen a situation where I've had to do that and I live in New York. 

[BRUCE]

I'm guessing you don't have much experience in dealing with muslims in the United States? Most of the muslims here would describe themselves as muslim, but are non practicing and don't really care. Seems to be different in Europe and Australia. The muslims in the US are quite a sucessful demographic, not the case in Australia and Europe, where they seem to be welfare junkies. Maybe Europe should reform its welfare system and force people to integrate, if they don't, then they're out. You don't have that pussy apologist mentality in America, that's why we, despite our fucked up situation with illegals, still handle immigration better than any other country.

My brothers owned several firearms and I'd be willing to take out a .45 to show an Islamist who's boss, but I've never once seen a situation where I've had to do that and I live in New York. 

CJ, I think if you read my post you'll see that I largely agree with what you're saying - except that Australia is far closer to the US than Europe.

[Hedgehog]

Yes, it is - Hedge.  And the fact you won't admit it is frightening, but typical of the European 'approach' to dealing with terrorism.

Here's a little something for your perusal, let me know if you can find a list from another religion that outstrips it:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

And that's just the last three months!

Until you and I can both agree Islam has a problem adapting to the new world (to put it very lightly), we're both going to have a problem doing something about it.



I'll say it again, so we can get serious - rather than letting our Political Correctness stop us from speaking the truth.

Most terrorists are Islamic.

Got it yet?

I think most terrorism is Islamic.

That doesn't mean I say it's a fact.

Where do I say that I don't believe that the Muslim community has a huge problem assimilating into today's modern secular society?

I am an avid opponent of Islam, on many levels.

But I will try to avoid making blanket statements about Islam, like claiming that it is a fact that most terrorists are Muslims.

Stick with hard facts about Islam and Muslim culture BRUCE. I promise you, it's enough, no need to bullshit.



-Hedge

[BRUCE]

I think most terrorism is Islamic.

That doesn't mean I say it's a fact.

Stick with hard facts about Islam and Muslim culture BRUCE. I promise you, it's enough, no need to bullshit.

-Hedge

Herein lies the difference between you and I.

You sit and ponder, present no facts and make ambiguous wishy-washy statements starting with 'I think'.

I actually source facts, develop sound opinions and propose action - as above.

Until you, and other Europeans, confront facts like this - Islam will take you for everything you have.

You'll no doubt prove what I have written is 'bullshit', or did you mean to say: 'I think it's bullshit'?  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.