For GH15 and others a Natural non steroid to keep estrogen low

[Marty Champions]

aromatase happens to all of us when part of our testosterone gets converted to estrogens (estrogen related water and fat gain)

so since I dont plan on doing any steroids to combat this problem would high dosages of saw pametto and zinc be beneficial in this quest to be an antagonist of aromatase? here is something i googled up i think its fore steroid users but im hopin that the saw palmetto could be beneficail for us naturals

Known antagonists of aromataze are saw palmetto and zinc. If you are supplementing testosterone, you MUST take at least 300 mgm of saw palmetto and 50 mgm of zinc daily. Saw palmetto may also block metabolism of testosterone to androstenedione, another potent androgen which has been implicated in prostate disease. Also good news is that plants in the crucifer family (cabbage, kale, brocolli and brussel sprouts) contain large amounts of an oestrogen antagonist called indole-3-carbinol, I3C for short. This has been shown to be very helpful against women's hormone dependent cancers, such as breast and cervical cancers. We men can benefit from the same breakthrough. Eat plenty from this group. Chrysin (passion flower), available as capsules or cream also has a definite beneficial effect in this context. Avena sativa (oats) is also said by some to increase free testosterone.

[gh15]

no,,
too much zinc will add you nice puffy left bitch tit after a while,, and saw pametto wont combat nothing but your pocket,,

both are useless,,beside you dont take testosterone so you dont need no anti estrogen or ai,,your body keep the balance perfectly fine when natural if diet is in check while trying to get cut

[Cap]

no,,
too much zinc will add you nice puffy left bitch tit after a while,, and saw pametto wont combat nothing but your pocket,,

both are useless,,beside you dont take testosterone so you dont need no anti estrogen or ai,,your body keep the balance perfectly fine when natural if diet is in check while trying to get cut

So you don't like ZMA?

What about Vanadyl Sulphate?

[Marty Champions]

no,,
too much zinc will add you nice puffy left bitch tit after a while,, and saw pametto wont combat nothing but your pocket,,

both are useless,,beside you dont take testosterone so you dont need no anti estrogen or ai,,your body keep the balance perfectly fine when natural if diet is in check while trying to get cut

so basically i need to cut out my sodium then right?

[Marty Champions]

so basically i need to cut out my sodium then right?

how much weight will i lose if i truly cut out sodium ive never really done a low sodium diet

will i lose like 20 pounds of water?

[gh15]

i dont know whats your body weight is right now,,but from the pictures i see about 30-40lb naturally,, mostly water weight which is confused with fat as usual,, and you are ripped to the bone,,if you get some tablets and go the needle way 15- 20lb and you are ripped to the bone,,

low-low modeate sodium while dieting is a must when natural and when hormonized,,because extra sodium = water retention and water retention = blurred/flatten muscle look from abs to arms to quads to anymuscle on your body. dont cut out sodium,,just pay attention to it and keep it low while trying to get ripped,,

take some vitamin c in the 3000-6000mg a day zone and it wil be better than any other supp on the market

[TheAnimal]

no,,
too much zinc will add you nice puffy left bitch tit after a while,, and saw pametto wont combat nothing but your pocket,,

both are useless,,beside you dont take testosterone so you dont need no anti estrogen or ai,,your body keep the balance perfectly fine when natural if diet is in check while trying to get cut

How do you get rid of this? I have been to an endocrinologist and they said it will go away naturally... its been 16 months no change...

[warrior_code]

what benefits do you see in vitamin C that woudl make it better?

[Cap]

i dont know whats your body weight is right now,,but from the pictures i see about 30-40lb naturally,, mostly water weight which is confused with fat as usual,, and you are ripped to the bone,,if you get some tablets and go the needle way 15- 20lb and you are ripped to the bone,,

low-low modeate sodium while dieting is a must when natural and when hormonized,,because extra sodium = water retention and water retention = blurred/flatten muscle look from abs to arms to quads to anymuscle on your body. dont cut out sodium,,just pay attention to it and keep it low while trying to get ripped,,

take some vitamin c in the 3000-6000mg a day zone and it wil be better than any other supp on the market

explain some more please?  What about Italians like Franco who never looked esepcially cut?

[Marty Champions]

i dont know whats your body weight is right now,,but from the pictures i see about 30-40lb naturally,, mostly water weight which is confused with fat as usual,, and you are ripped to the bone,,if you get some tablets and go the needle way 15- 20lb and you are ripped to the bone,,

low-low modeate sodium while dieting is a must when natural and when hormonized,,because extra sodium = water retention and water retention = blurred/flatten muscle look from abs to arms to quads to anymuscle on your body. dont cut out sodium,,just pay attention to it and keep it low while trying to get ripped,,

take some vitamin c in the 3000-6000mg a day zone and it wil be better than any other supp on the market

i dont ever want to juice, too much things to worry about... so damn i could lose 30-40 pounds on a low sodium diet hmmm i guess i will have to try it out and buy some vitamin c since i dont even take vitamins.

[Cap]

How does Vit C reduce sodium?

[SWOLETRAIN]

would the anti aromatase stuff....  a-dex, aromasin, proviron, do anything to him if he started using them? Or do they not have effects on naturals? if not..... what can naturals do to loose the water?

[THE BAD GUY]

would the anti aromatase stuff....  a-dex, aromasin, proviron, do anything to him if he started using them? Or do they not have effects on naturals? if not..... what can naturals do to loose the water?

take lasix that is what u can do i know a bunch of female naturals who compete and thats what they use with a clean diet and some asparagus

[youandme]

How does Vit C reduce sodium?

Does not reduce sodium, in high enough doses above 5000mgs it acts as a natural diuretic, and will take care of some  of the water retention...the natural way, vitamin c and some lemon juice is a good way to go.

[youandme]

would the anti aromatase stuff....  a-dex, aromasin, proviron, do anything to him if he started using them? Or do they not have effects on naturals? if not..... what can naturals do to loose the water?

When a natty asks me how he can lose water (not for a competition) I suggest adding lemon juice, 4-6 grams of vitamin C a day, and dandelion root 250 mg/day...that's all I got.

[SteelePegasus]

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1266938&blobtype=pdf

according to that article, day 3 is when you start piss like the rainy season.