Author Topic: The 1980 Olympia - Arnold v. Mentzer (Read 13480 times)

dseiler · « **on:** February 14, 2007, 04:45:09 AM »

After Arnold's comments on PBW, the 80 Olympia is back on the discussion table. So did Arnold win based on who he was or did he really have the best conditioning? Based on these pics....

natural al · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:52:43 AM »

physically Arnold was a bigger man, taller and heavier. He had a better chest and better bi's. metzer was leaner, had better skin tone, better tri's, forearms and better overall leg development. Arnolds Chest was bigger but Mike's was more defined-from what I remember. I dont' really remember what thier backs looked like but I'm gonna assume that Mike was more musclular from the rear. I think Mike should have beaten him, look at the shot of them standing in the front relaxed pose, mike just looks 1000 times better to me, Arnold looks like a guy from the 70's trying to compete with the guys from the 80's, he's not as muscular, tanned and he's still hitting that "relaxed" pose like they did in the 70's.

pumpster · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:58:29 AM »

Here we go with another round on this..

Looking at the pics Mentzer doesn't look as polished as either Zane or Schwarzenegger in terms of conditioning & aesthetics. He had a weird, fairly mediocre chest IMO, big abs and lacked shoulder width. Despite Schwarzenegger's shortcomings that year in terms of size in certain areas, he was still easily as good or slightly better than Mentzer IMO. Not only more polished & more aesthetic but taller with wider shoulders. In that 1st pic Mentzer's 3rd, ahead of Tinnerino IMO. In the 2nd pic Arnold clearly looks better-Mentzer again with the poor chest.

Mentzer must've had an inflated ego to have been so taken aback from the results, because he's not blowing anyone off the stage. A little more humility and realism he'd have worked harder to come back the next year in better condition-he was a little soft in certain areas in '80. If he saw Robinson lose the Olympia in previous years he should've been more mentally prepared for setbacks.

natural al · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:13:40 AM »

Quote from: pumpster on February 14, 2007, 04:58:29 AM

Here we go with another round on this..

Looking at the pics Mentzer doesn't look as polished as either Zane or Schwarzenegger in terms of conditioning & aesthetics. He had a weird, fairly mediocre chest IMO, big abs and lacked shoulder width. Despite Schwarzenegger's shortcomings that year in terms of size in certain areas, he was still easily as good or slightly better than Mentzer IMO. Not only more polished & more aesthetic but taller with wider shoulders. In that 1st pic Mentzer's 3rd, ahead of Tinnerino IMO. In the 2nd pic Arnold clearly looks better-Mentzer again with the poor chest.

Mentzer must've had an inflated ego to have been so taken aback from the results, because he's not blowing anyone off the stage. A little more humility and realism he'd have worked harder to come back the next year in better condition-he was a little soft in certain areas in '80. If he saw Robinson lose the Olympia in previous years he should've been more mentally prepared for setbacks.

notice in the first pic the way that Zane is hitting his front "relaxed" pose, one leg in front of the other, just slightly and body turned just a little to one side. Just these little changes in how he hit poses make a dramatic difference.

fearANDloathing · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:17:26 AM »

Why all the Mentzer/Arnold comparisons?
Despite the fact that Mentzer did look better, it was Roy Callander who was actually the runner up. Even if Arnie wasn't there M.M would not have won that night. $:-\$

pumpster · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:18:59 AM »

Quote from: fearANDloathing on February 14, 2007, 05:17:26 AM

Why all the Mentzer/Arnold comparisons?
Despite the fact that Mentzer did look better, it was Roy Callander who was actually the runner up. Even if Arnie wasn't there M.M would not have won that night. $:-\$

Such much about Mentzer while guys at least as good like Callender & others are forgotten.

natural al · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:20:05 AM »

Quote from: fearANDloathing on February 14, 2007, 05:17:26 AM

Why all the Mentzer/Arnold comparisons?
Despite the fact that Mentzer did look better, it was Roy Callander who was actually the runner up. Even if Arnie wasn't there M.M would not have won that night. $:-\$

lots of people seem to think that arnold-who was close with alot of the judges if I remember right-wanted Mike to get knocked down a peg or 2 so maybe he got placed lower than he should have to prove a point, that point being he wasn't even in arnolds league. That's what I've heard.

BEAST 8692 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:50:04 AM »

unfortunately this debate gets clouded by bias imo.

if you are talking, simply, who looks better or who has the look more people would want then it's not hard to see how arnold is advantageous.

arnold had far greater appeal than mentzer based on popularity, status, inspiration, history and, of course, he had the show piece arms, chest and a bigger overall structure.

fortunately judgement of body building is a little more structured than 'appeal'.

if we are talking strict body building competition then it is not hard to see why mentzer has a very strong case.

aside from posing, bis and chest, mentzer blows arnold away on lower body, back, abs, tris, delts, traps, muscularity, proportion, symmetry and hardness. it's not even close.

this is why mentzer, other competitors (that day) and many other passionate hard core bbing competitors and fans were pissed, because the underlying statement made by arnold's win was, 'it doesn't matter how hard you train, diet, sacrifice or what genetics you have, the judges can be corrupted.'

pumpster · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:11:17 AM »

Quote from: BEAST 8692 on February 14, 2007, 05:50:04 AM

unfortunately this debate gets clouded by bias imo.

if you are talking, simply, who looks better or who has the look more people would want then it's not hard to see how arnold is advantageous.

arnold had far greater appeal than mentzer based on popularity, status, inspiration, history and, of course, he had the show piece arms, chest and a bigger overall structure.

fortunately judgement of body building is a little more structured than 'appeal'.

if we are talking strict body building competition then it is not hard to see why mentzer has a very strong case.

Excellent case for exhibiting bias. My points on his specific pronounced shortcomings stand. The hype with this guy was/is tremendous, in contrast to someone like Callender who was just as good but relatively forgotten by comparison.

Mentzer's biggest weakness was his attitude, beginning with the arrogance. BBs better than him lost and didn't crumble the way he did.

BEAST 8692 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:28:54 AM »

Quote from: pumpster on February 14, 2007, 06:11:17 AM

Excellent case for exhibiting bias. My points on his specific pronounced shortcomings stand. The hype with this guy was/is tremendous, in contrast to someone like Callender who was just as good but relatively forgotten by comparison.

Mentzer's biggest weakness was his attitude, beginning with the arrogance. BBs better than him lost and didn't crumble the way he did.

'callender was just as good.'

maybe, but i haven't seen enough comparison pics of roy from that show to form a judgement.

in any case, the thread is not about callender.

mentzer certainly did overestimate his significance, no argument there

alexxx · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:41:56 AM »

Arnold kick so much ass I don't even see how you guys may think it was even close!

alexxx · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:43:20 AM »

alexxx · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:45:06 AM »

Arnold won the end.

Royalty · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2007, 07:00:28 AM »

I wonder how much Mike Mentzer's future would have changed if he won the 1980 Olympia.

BUTTERFLY EFFECT

pumpster · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2007, 07:03:18 AM »

Quote from: Royalty on February 14, 2007, 07:00:28 AM

I wonder how much Mike Mentzer's future would have changed if he won the 1980 Olympia.

You could say the same about any number of BBs as good or better than Mentzer-Robinson, Padilla, Fox, Szkalak, Oliva in the 70s, etc.

Royalty · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2007, 07:06:19 AM »

Quote from: pumpster on February 14, 2007, 07:03:18 AM

You could say the same about any number of BBs as good or better than Mentzer-Robinson, Padilla, Fox, Szkalak, Oliva in the 70s, etc.

true...but Mike was obsessed with the outcome of the 1980 Olympia results.

I think that the others had their demons but they tried to move on at least.

MCWAY · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2007, 12:53:29 PM »

Quote from: fearANDloathing on February 14, 2007, 05:17:26 AM

Why all the Mentzer/Arnold comparisons?
Despite the fact that Mentzer did look better, it was Roy Callander who was actually the runner up. Even if Arnie wasn't there M.M would not have won that night. $:-\$

Mentzer placed 5th, so there really was no "Arnold v. Mentzer" issue. But, it was Chris Dickerson who placed second, not Roy Callender.

karasan · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2007, 01:39:42 PM »

Many guys forget something, which I consider very important.
Mike Mentzer didn't compete with his best form in '80 Olympia.
You may say, Arnold was even worse shape for his standarts.
But, Mentzer had to be in his best shape to even consider beating Arnold.
If Mentzer would stand there with his best ever shape, he would blow "that Arnold" into pieces.
But he didn't show up with great shape.
Mentzer's chest was really problematic that day, also his legs were not very well...
I'm a Mentzer fan, but when I'm checking the pictures, Arnold dwarfs Mike, his strong triceps shot isn't enough to save him...
Where is Mike magnificent ripped calves, mind blowing most muscular pose, spectacular chest...
At 1980 they were no where to seen...

oldman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2007, 03:04:50 PM »

roger walker should have won, thats who. what happenned was this, there was not anyone who BEAT arnold, so the king kept the crown

dseiler · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2007, 05:58:13 AM »

The guy definitely should have kept his focus. It's also worth noting that he placed FIRST in the 1979 Olympia Heavyweight division (Zane won the light) when the Olympia was two weight classes.

Arnold demanded the Olympia be combined into one class and the rest is history.

natural al · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2007, 06:07:24 AM »

Quote from: dseiler on February 15, 2007, 05:58:13 AM

The guy definitely should have kept his focus. It's also worth noting that he placed FIRST in the 1979 Olympia Heavyweight division (Zane won the light) when the Olympia was two weight classes.

Arnold demanded the Olympia be combined into one class and the rest is history.

that's not right...everyone wanted it in one class and arnold wanted it to remain split up. There was a big debate with arnold being the only hold out, Boyer Coe asked arnold what his reasoning was and Arnold called coe a child and told him to speak like a man and that's when Metzer went nuts backstage...that's when the pic of Metzer pointing his finger at arnold-who's sitting down was taken.

Mr. Michael Moore · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2007, 06:31:05 AM »

Quote from: natural al on February 15, 2007, 06:07:24 AM

that's not right...everyone wanted it in one class and arnold wanted it to remain split up. There was a big debate with arnold being the only hold out, Boyer Coe asked arnold what his reasoning was and Arnold called coe a child and told him to speak like a man and that's when Metzer went nuts backstage...that's when the pic of Metzer pointing his finger at arnold-who's sitting down was taken.

Exactly! And I've read a dozen times in the mags of the era (which I collect) and some internet reports that Mentzer imposed himself in such a way that Arnold truly believed that Mike would jump to punches towards him. That's why he kept seated and that time he knew that 'maybe' he went 'a little too far' with his 2 classes whinning. That's when Joe Weider got in charge of the situation and told Arnold that 'maybe' it was time to quit his demand and accept the single class. And you guys know, when the old man said 'maybe it's time to quit' it's like a papal bule: you shouldn't quit, you should run !!!! (CASINO's line, great movie !!

)

natural al · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2007, 06:34:41 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Michael Moore on February 15, 2007, 06:31:05 AM

Exactly! And I've read a dozen times in the mags of the era (which I collect) and some internet reports that Mentzer imposed himself in such a way that Arnold truly believed that Mike would jump to punches towards him. That's why he kept seated and that time he knew that 'maybe' he went 'a little too far' with his 2 classes whinning. That's when Joe Weider got in charge of the situation and told Arnold that 'maybe' it was time to quit his demand and accept the single class. And you guys know, when the old man said 'maybe it's time to quit' it's like a papal bule: you shouldn't quit, you should run !!!! (CASINO's line, great movie !! )

the only part of the story that I heard any different on was that Arnie was initially standing and when Mike came at him he sat down. I've got "the wisdome of Mike Metzer" at home and i'll have to check it out.

Arnold was just trying to get under everyone's skin with the whole 2 class BS. he was good at that stuff....

Pollux · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2007, 06:37:21 AM »

Quote from: alexxx on February 14, 2007, 06:41:56 AM

Arnold kick so much ass I don't even see how you guys may think it was even close!

Haters. That's all I gotta say.

Mr. Michael Moore · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2007, 06:46:29 AM »

Quote from: natural al on February 15, 2007, 06:34:41 AM

the only part of the story that I heard any different on was that Arnie was initially standing and when Mike came at him he sat down. I've got "the wisdome of Mike Metzer" at home and i'll have to check it out.

Arnold was just trying to get under everyone's skin with the whole 2 class BS. he was good at that stuff....

You're absolutely right, my fault, I forgot that part. He was standing, and as Mike aproached him with his angry tone, Arnold got seated pretty scared (sorry, Alexxx)!!