Author Topic: The Bible has NO contradictions  (Read 5152 times)

loco

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The Bible has NO contradictions
« on: February 18, 2007, 11:37:45 AM »
"most apparent contradictions between the gospels are resolved through careful examination of the texts and additional historical background (EXAMPLE: old and new Jericho and the synpotic accounts of Jesus healing the blind men)."

"Even apparent contradictions get resolved in ways that demonstrate the sovereign wisdom of its ultimate Author."

Those scholars must be pretty weak minded....I just looked through the new testament for a few minutes and found a contradiction.

Matthew 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli."

Very simple.  Matthew gives the line of Joseph, the legal line, and Luke gives the line of Mary, the mother of our Lord.  Read this:

Two Big Problems
Read Matt. 1:1-16—keep a finger in both passages. Note especially Joseph’s immediate ancestors.  Compare this to Luke’s genealogy, which runs the opposite direction. Clearly, Matthew’s genealogy contradicts Luke’s genealogy from David to Jesus. These two lists are completely different from Jesus back to David. Even though these genealogies are not exhaustive, they cannot be reconciled. They have different grandfathers (JACOB vs. ELI), and they descend from David through two different sons (SOLOMON vs. NATHAN).

If the Bible were only claiming to be a human-originated history or religious speculation, this wouldn’t be so troubling. But the fact that it claims to be inspired by God makes “contradictions” like this seriously problematic. If we can’t trust it (because of internal contradictions) where we can test it, why should we trust what it says about spiritual truths that we can’t test? You certainly wouldn’t want to entrust your life to a book that can’t even get the ancestry of its main figure right!

But it gets worse. There is a second problem with the Messiah’s genealogy: Even the Old Testament’s prediction of Messiah’s genealogy contradicts itself. This takes some time to appreciate. One of the ways God safeguarded the Messiah from impersonation is by making most of the predictions impossible to fake. One of these safeguards was the lineage.  God began to cut down the range of who was allowed to be the Messiah very early on.

Gen. 22:17-18—The Messiah must descend from Abraham and be a member of the Jewish nation (“seed” promise was reiterated to Isaac and Jacob) >> RIVER OF HUMANITY WITH A STREAM 1/100TH OF THE FLOW.

Gen. 49:10—The Messiah must descend from Judah, one of the twelve tribes of Israel >> 1/12th OF SMALL STREAM (but still tens of thousands of people)

Isa. 9:6-7—The Messiah must descend from David >> SMALL PORTION OF JUDAH.

2 Sam. 7:12-16—David had several wives and maybe as many as a hundred sons, but the Old Testament specified that Messiah had to come from one of his sons, Solomon. Actually, this limits it to the first-born sons of Solomon’s ancestors, since only they would be eligible to rule.

When you look at Matt. 1, you see these people mentioned in vs 2-7. The people in vs 7-11 were kings of Judah.  Now notice what he says about king Jeconiah (v. 11). At this point in Israel’s history, God exiled Judah to Babylon for their idolatry as he had warned them (approx. 600 BC). Jeconiah was a horribly apostate king, and God cursed him >> read Jer. 22:28-30. God ordains the end of Jeconiah’s line. “Childless” here is defined by the following statements—none of his descendants will rule Israel. They gradually returned, and Jeconiah’s descendants continued and were recorded—but none of them ruled as king (vs 12-16).

This is the second problem. God said earlier that the Messiah would have to come from this kingly line—then he cursed that line and never replaced it! “Unless you come from Jeconiah’s line, you’re disqualified—and if you come from Jeconiah’s line, you’re disqualified!?!” It looks like God has painted himself into a corner . . . Not only do we have the two genealogies of Jesus contradicting themselves; the Old Testament itself can’t even agree on the line of the Messiah!

If you were a fake Messiah trying to fake your way through, how would you deal with this problem? . . .

Resolution
Let’s take a closer look at Lk. 3:23. The NASB says “ . . . being supposedly . . . ” The NIV says “ . . . so it was thought . . . ” Nomizo, when used by Luke, almost always means that the situation is not what people think it is. Why does Luke insert this qualifier? Most likely, he is really referring to Mary, who was Jesus’ actual human ancestor. This is likely for several reasons:

Luke has already made it clear that Joseph is not the father (1:31-35), so his readers would understand nomizo in the above way..

Luke has probably interviewed Mary, so it makes sense that he would provide her family’s genealogical record.

NOTE: The official records always went from the earliest descendent down, while the personal records went from the most recent descendant back.[1] Thus, it would appear that Matthew is working from the official records, while Luke is working from personal records from Mary’s family.

Since Jewish genealogies usually didn’t mention mothers, this would be an appropriate way to state it. (Matthew mentions some of Messiah’s female ancestors—probably to emphasize God’s grace to sinners.)

Interestingly, the Talmud contains a possible reference to Mary, and names her father as “Heli” (Chagigah 77:4).[2]

So if Lk. 3 is Jesus’ genealogy through Mary and Matt. 1 is his genealogy through Joseph, there is no contradiction between them.  On the contrary, these two genealogies provide us with the full picture of Jesus’ ancestry. This deals with the first problem.

By the way, most apparent contradictions between the gospels are resolved through careful examination of the texts and additional historical background (EXAMPLE: old and new Jericho and the synpotic accounts of Jesus healing the blind men).

But what about the problem with the cursed line of Jeconiah?

Because Jesus is the adopted son of Joseph, he is still legally in the kingly line. According to Jewish law, the first-born son, whether natural or adopted, had the right of inheritance.[3]

But because Jesus’ human blood lineage goes back to David through Nathan, he avoids the curse! 

SUMMARIZE: In spite of seemingly irreconcilable problems, it all works out!! This is an example of the marvelous consistency of the Bible. Even apparent contradictions get resolved in ways that demonstrate the sovereign wisdom of its ultimate Author.

So what?
Look at Lk. 24:44-46. This refers to a whole complex of predictions (300+) covering 2000+ years, many of which were impossible to self-fulfill.  Not just Messiah’s LINEAGE, but also his PLACE OF BIRTH, TIME OF COMING, MANNER OF DEATH, and even his RESURRECTION). 

The odds of even one of these predictions being fulfilled by chance are very low; the odds of all of them being fulfilled by chance are astronomical. You can believe that explanation if you want—but you would be exercising BLIND FAITH!

God went out of his way to make these predictions and preserve them in writing so you and I could have the evidence we need to identify the Messiah—so we can have a RATIONAL FAITH in Jesus as the Messiah. This kind of evidence is superior to experience, which can always be doubted later.  But we can go back to these predictions over and over again, check them with history, etc.

So how does God want you to respond to this evidence?  With amazement? Yes. With intellectual assent? Yes. But with something more . . . 

Read v. 47. God wants you to realize that through Jesus Christ he is offering you forgiveness of your sins.

And God wants you to respond to his offer with “repentance.” This means a change of mind/direction—to choose to come to God personally versus staying at a distance, to receive a gift of complete forgiveness versus trying to earn his acceptance.

There is a point in time before which we are alienated from God and under his judgment, and after which we are eternally forgiven and united with him. And the point in time that separates those two states is the point of decision about Jesus.

God has set everything up for you—now it’s your turn to do something. Don't miss your chance!!

Footnotes
[1] See Godet, Commentary on Luke, p. 127.

[2] So Zondervan Pictorial Dictionary, vol. 2, pp. 674,675.  But note F. F. Bruce’s comment in The New Bible Dictionary (p. 411): “No help should be looked for in the Talmudic reference (TJ Hagigah 77d) to one Miriam, a daughter of Eli (cf. Heli, Lk. 3:23), for this Miriam has no connection with the mother of Jesus.”

[3] So also with those in the kingly line who failed to have sons—their nearest male relative assumed the title.  See Zondervan Pictorial Dictionary, vol. 2, p. 675



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loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 05:23:50 AM »
Found another one.....these are in the same gospel...

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater

Was Jesus just kidding when he said his father and he were equal?  Or was he kidding when he said his father is greater?

There is only one GOD.  GOD is one in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Jesus is GOD the Son.

Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position.   He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ."

Hebrews 2:9, "But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." 

Also the Bible says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."

Philippians 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
 
Jesus has two natures.  Jesus was not denying that He was God.  He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man.  Jesus is both God and man.  As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father.  He had added to Himself human nature.  He became a man to die for people. 

Colossians 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"

Galatians 4:4-5, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."

loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 09:57:57 AM »
This condradiction is an oldie....

Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gensis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gensis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Those scholars didn't seem to look very hard for contradictions, because there are many.

There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2.  Genesis 1 is a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day.  Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day, the day that Adam and Eve were made.

The Scripture does not say that man and woman was made "...at the same time..." They were created in the same day, but not at the same time.

Genesis 1 provides a chronological order of creation. The tasks of each day are for our knowledge of the creation account. Genesis 2 is not a chronological account, nor is there anything in the text which would cause us to consider it to be.

Genesis 1 mentions the creation of man as the last of a series, and without any details, whereas in Genesis 2 man is the center of interest and more specific details are given about him and his setting

They do not contradict, but rather compliment each other.

Blue Heat

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 05:38:43 AM »
Thanks for these posts.

loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2007, 05:40:09 AM »
Thanks for these posts.

You are welcome!   ;D

Bigger Business

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 05:44:03 AM »
keep telling yourself how awesome this shit is bro



i guess you need to re assure yourself somehow

loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 05:45:09 AM »
keep telling yourself how awesome this shit is bro

i guess you need to re assure yourself somehow

God bless you, Bigger Business!   ;D

Blue Heat

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loco

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Wombat

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 05:59:10 AM »
The Truth is alot of the stories in the Bible are just rip offs from the Sumerians who lived 2000 years before Christianity was ever thought of...including the use of the cross...The truth is out there

loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2007, 06:01:22 AM »
The Truth is alot of the stories in the Bible are just rip offs from the Sumerians who lived 2000 years before Christianity was ever thought of...including the use of the cross...The truth is out there

Very bold statement, and very interesting.  Can you prove it?

Blue Heat

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 06:05:34 AM »
The Truth is alot of the stories in the Bible are just rip offs from the Sumerians who lived 2000 years before Christianity was ever thought of...including the use of the cross...The truth is out there

Where did you get that last phrase, from The X-Files? Yeah, and who created these Sumerians, you? No matter what, the Word of God proves itself, and the doubters to be the spirit of the antichrist.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2007, 01:45:06 PM »
1st there was Adam and Eve, then they had sons in Cain and Abel. Then Cain got married.......... to a monkey? Wait.............no a woman, who was obviously his unknown sister.................. ....okay let's start from there 1st.

loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 07:05:15 AM »
1st there was Adam and Eve, then they had sons in Cain and Abel. Then Cain got married.......... to a monkey? Wait.............no a woman, who was obviously his unknown sister.................. ....okay let's start from there 1st.

Besides Cain, Abel and Seth, Adam and Eve had many other unnamed sons and daughters. The Bible does not give the time period when Cain took his wife. Depending on how much time there was between Cain being married, he either married a distant sister, or if enough time transpired, he could have married his own niece.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 04:13:29 PM »
Besides Cain, Abel and Seth, Adam and Eve had many other unnamed sons and daughters.
Proof? And if you know anything about genetics, offspring from close relatives isually end up being retarded, so if this continued with inter "family" offspring by the time the 4th oor 5th generation came around they would be pretty whacked. Also explain why there are many different nationalities.

Blue Heat

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2007, 08:51:06 AM »
Proof? And if you know anything about genetics, offspring from close relatives isually end up being retarded, so if this continued with inter "family" offspring by the time the 4th oor 5th generation came around they would be pretty whacked. Also explain why there are many different nationalities.

Things these days are different but for the human race to have survived, and thrived at that, God obviously had a way. You don't question the Creator when you are but a mere mortal, a humble creation. If we were at the Lord's level, we would be able to create entire planets too but we cannot even produce ANY FOOD by ourselves! We have to grow and rear the flora and fauna that the Lord hath given unto us and His elements nourisheth. As for the different races and nationalities, human beings living all over the planet in starkly differing environments and climates will of course develop differently over the course of 6,000 years, yer we are all still humans and nobody has observed monkeys evolving into men! Please do not lose your salvation for the sake of obsessing over tiny, trivial details but missing out on the big picture.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2007, 02:47:51 PM »
Things these days are different but for the human race to have survived, and thrived at that, God obviously had a way. You don't question the Creator when you are but a mere mortal, a humble creation. If we were at the Lord's level, we would be able to create entire planets too but we cannot even produce ANY FOOD by ourselves! We have to grow and rear the flora and fauna that the Lord hath given unto us and His elements nourisheth. As for the different races and nationalities, human beings living all over the planet in starkly differing environments and climates will of course develop differently over the course of 6,000 years, yer we are all still humans and nobody has observed monkeys evolving into men! Please do not lose your salvation for the sake of obsessing over tiny, trivial details but missing out on the big picture.
Lol, question the Creator. That is YOUR belief. I guess dinosaurs were living during the creation of man, or was that before? And if it was before, then man wasn't the first creature created by God. And of course this is all a mystery, but somehow Creationism and their scholars have the answer..............LMAO ......at least with science there credible proof that there was life before man evolved.

Religious people have to live in fear because that's how laws came about. Again my feeling is if there was no repercussions of having multiply wifes or spouses, the religious males would do what they are meant to do. Find EVERY way to have offspring and pass on their genes.

Blue Heat

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2007, 03:09:32 PM »
Lol, question the Creator. That is YOUR belief. I guess dinosaurs were living during the creation of man, or was that before? And if it was before, then man wasn't the first creature created by God. And of course this is all a mystery, but somehow Creationism and their scholars have the answer..............LMAO ......at least with science there credible proof that there was life before man evolved.

Religious people have to live in fear because that's how laws came about. Again my feeling is if there was no repercussions of having multiply wifes or spouses, the religious males would do what they are meant to do. Find EVERY way to have offspring and pass on their genes.

No, that is FACT. The fact of God who created you - even the fact that you are alive to blaspheme is a testament to the LIVING LORD JEHOVAH. And who said that Man was the first creature created by God? Certainly not God. Read the Word to unveil the truth. Science merely reveals what God was established, so are you to promote to study/creation ahead of the Creator? You talk about offspring but yet forget the Lord who created all things, including how man procreates. What a disgrace you are...be zealous therefore and repent.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/end_of_the_world.htm

tu_holmes

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2007, 03:24:56 PM »
No, that is FACT. The fact of God who created you - even the fact that you are alive to blaspheme is a testament to the LIVING LORD JEHOVAH. And who said that Man was the first creature created by God? Certainly not God. Read the Word to unveil the truth. Science merely reveals what God was established, so are you to promote to study/creation ahead of the Creator? You talk about offspring but yet forget the Lord who created all things, including how man procreates. What a disgrace you are...be zealous therefore and repent.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/end_of_the_world.htm


Fact? There is no fact there you big hot blue teddy bear you...

My parents created me, and their parents before them, all the way back to the primordial ooze which evolution as proven... Much more so than your little Bible with it's 8000 year old stories.

Forget the fact that if Adam and Eve were the only two people on the planet, that we would almost ALL look alike, but yet we do not... From it's very beginnings the Bible has no possibility to be correct as we know that Science proves our DNA sequence... we would ALL be within the same family if that were the case and it is quite scientifically proven that we are not.

Blue Heat

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2007, 03:32:06 PM »
Fact? There is no fact there you big hot blue teddy bear you...

My parents created me, and their parents before them, all the way back to the primordial ooze which evolution as proven... Much more so than your little Bible with it's 8000 year old stories.

Forget the fact that if Adam and Eve were the only two people on the planet, that we would almost ALL look alike, but yet we do not... From it's very beginnings the Bible has no possibility to be correct as we know that Science proves our DNA sequence... we would ALL be within the same family if that were the case and it is quite scientifically proven that we are not.

Like I said, all your lies have already been debunked but you do not care to listen. So be it then but I do hope still that you repent. As for your parents creating you, your parents are merely the vehicle....who made them, as wel as SET THE PROCREATION MECHANISM (sex) in place? So what about the rest of Creation? And who created whatever must have been the start of evolution like you say? No matter what, if you use your BRAIN, logic DICTATES A CREATOR. And now you are stumbling upon the truth finally that you cannot as yet grasp...we are all within the same family...so why kill and do evil against each other when we are all related by blood? Or do we have humans now with pig noses? ::) For the umptieth time, read and learn, and stop wasting your own time. Do you have any love for God or even yourself?

ttp://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm

tu_holmes

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2007, 04:01:02 PM »
Like I said, all your lies have already been debunked but you do not care to listen. So be it then but I do hope still that you repent. As for your parents creating you, your parents are merely the vehicle....who made them, as wel as SET THE PROCREATION MECHANISM (sex) in place? So what about the rest of Creation? And who created whatever must have been the start of evolution like you say? No matter what, if you use your BRAIN, logic DICTATES A CREATOR. And now you are stumbling upon the truth finally that you cannot as yet grasp...we are all within the same family...so why kill and do evil against each other when we are all related by blood? Or do we have humans now with pig noses? ::) For the umptieth time, read and learn, and stop wasting your own time. Do you have any love for God or even yourself?

ttp://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm


Evolution debunks your creator and it has done so many times... please feel free to stop anytime.

loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2007, 09:09:02 AM »
Evolution debunks your creator and it has done so many times... please feel free to stop anytime.

tu_holmes,
I do know science, and last time I checked, evolutionary theory is a just that, a theory, not a proven fact.

The earth is round and not flat.  See, that's a fact that no scientist today will argue with.  Yet, some non-religious scientists today do question evolution.  They wouldn't question it if it was a proven fact.

"Doubts Over Evolution Mount With Over 300 Scientists Expressing Skepticism With Central Tenet of Darwin's Theory"
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2114

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2007, 09:37:02 AM »
Where did you get that last phrase, from The X-Files? Yeah, and who created these Sumerians, you? No matter what, the Word of God proves itself, and the doubters to be the spirit of the antichrist.

So anyone that has doubt God exists is controlled by the spirit of the Devil?

OzmO

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2007, 09:38:38 AM »
[/b][/size]

So anyone that has doubt God exists is controlled by the spirit of the Devil?

KILL THEM ALL!!!

loco

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Re: The Bible has NO contradictions
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2007, 09:43:25 AM »
KILL THEM ALL!!!

Calm down,  OzmO!   ;D