Author Topic: Turner and the chargers  (Read 2577 times)

body88

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Turner and the chargers
« on: February 19, 2007, 04:14:31 PM »
Good or bad move?


Norv Turner's record as HC.

Year --TM | W L T | W L |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| 1994 was | 3 13 0 | 0 0 |
| 1995 was | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 was | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1997 was | 8 7 1 | 0 0 |
| 1998 was | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1999 was | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 2000 was | 7 6 0 | 0 0 |
| 2004 oak | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |
| 2005 oak | 4 12 0 | 0 0 |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| TOTALS | 58 82 1 | 1 1

pumpster

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2007, 05:50:58 PM »
Pathetic; his record is 58-82-1!!! He's had plenty of opportunity to prove that there is NO reason to think he's an upgrade over Marty Ball.

Chargers turn to Turner

San Diego - Norv Turner has agreed to take the head coaching job of the San Diego Chargers one week after the NFL club fired Marty Schottenheimer, the San Diego Union-Tribune reported.

Turner, who spent the past two National Football League seasons as offensive co-ordinator for the San Francisco 49ers, served the same job for the Chargers in 2001 and installed the offensive scheme that has been used ever since.

Turner takes over a club that went an NFL-best 14-2 last season and won the AFC West division crown. The Chargers led the NFL in scoring with 492 points and LaDainian Tomlinson won the league rushing title with 1 815 yards.

Tomlinson also captured NFL Most Valuable Player honours after setting a one-season league record with 31 touchdowns.

But the success gave way to a second-round home playoff loss to New England and that failure proved too much for Schottenheimer to keep his job.

Turner has a record of 58-82 with one drawn as an NFL head coach in Washington and Oakland. He went 9-23 in two seasons with the Raiders before being fired 13 months ago and guided Washington from 1994 through 2000.

He was a candidate for the Dallas Cowboys' job before San Diego defensive co-ordinator Wade Phillips was given the role.

A key to Turner's success will be mentoring quarterback Phillip Rivers, who threw for 3 388 yards and 22 touchdowns with nine interceptions this past season.

The Chargers have also lost offensive co-ordinator Cam Cameron, who departed last month to become coach of the Miami Dolphins.


Fury

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2007, 06:33:11 PM »
Eh, anyone can probably win that team. They're going to be the best team in the NFL for 3-4 seasons. However, if they don't do shit this year, I'd shitcan him and bring in someone good.

pumpster

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 06:35:36 PM »
Many coaches can muff it with a good team. I'd prefer to see the NFL itself consulted on coaches, so that guys like Turner aren't given yet another chance to squander a good team and along with it some potentially great games for the league that might happen with a competent head coach. Turner's proved absolutely nothing in terms of being even just competent.

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2007, 06:39:30 PM »
I would've went with Rivera or Singletary personally.

pumpster

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2007, 06:48:34 PM »
I would've went with Rivera or Singletary personally.
Rivera most definitely over a loser like Turner. This was a smart hedge by whomever decided this-if they get rid of Turner he's right there:


Chargers head coach Norv Turner has tabbed former Bears defensive coordinator Ron Rivera to coach linebackers, the team announced. Rivera, who was one of six candidates to interview for the Chargers' head coaching job, has agreed to a two-year contract.
 
"This is big," said Turner. "Ron's qualifications speak for themselves. He has a wide range of experience with a variety of defenses as both a player and a coach. And he's coming from a team fresh off a Super Bowl season and whose defense over the past two years has been as good as any in the league. He'll bring an entirely new dimension to the defensive staff. Ron is an outstanding addition to our staff."

For the last three years, Rivera has overseen one of the NFL's top defenses. Chicago won back-to-back NFC North titles and earned a berth in Super Bowl XLI, thanks in large part to an attacking defense that led the NFL with 44 takeaways in 2006. The Bears finished fifth in the league in total defense and third in scoring defense last season. In 2005, Chicago ranked second in the NFL in total defense and finished sixth in takeaways.

The list of Bears defensive players that have produced Pro Bowl seasons under Rivera include linebackers Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs, safety Mike Brown, cornerback Nathan Vasher and defensive tackle Tommie Harris.

Rivera's background includes several defensive systems. The Bears excelled in the "Tampa 2," a scheme that relies heavily on zone coverages and little man-to-man. Rivera is also familiar with attacking defenses. Prior to joining Lovie Smith's staff in Chicago, Rivera spent five seasons as Philadelphia's linebackers coach, where he worked under Jim Johnson, one of the most aggressive defensive coordinators in the NFL. The Eagles advanced to the NFC Championship Game in each of Rivera’s final three seasons in Philly.

During his tenure with the Eagles, the team finished second in the NFL in scoring defense twice. In 2001, Philadelphia held all 16 of its opponents to less than 21 points. They're one of only four teams in NFL history that can make such a claim. Rivera also played a key role in the development of linebacker Jeremiah Trotter, a two-time Pro Bowl selection.

During Rivera's playing career, he was coached by the innovative Buddy Ryan, the architect of the "46 Defense" which involved blitzing on nearly every down. Rivera also is a former Bears linebacker and won a Super Bowl championship with Chicago in 1985.

pumpster

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2007, 07:19:12 PM »
The never-ending feud between San Diego general manager A.J. Smith and head coach Marty Schottenheimer was bad enough, even before Schottenheimer was fired last week, but the team's decision to name 49ers offensive coordinator Norv Turner as its new head coach is worse. Hands down.

The problem here is that Turner, while being one of the nicest gentlemen you'll ever meet in the NFL, simply is not an effective head coach. He proved that in Washington, where he went 49-59-1 with the Redskins from 1994 to 2000. He proved it again in Oakland, where he lost games (a 9-23 record) and his team's respect in a matter of two years. Now that he has his third shot at leading a team, I'm pretty sure he's going to confirm one more time that he's not the man for this kind of job, regardless of how much talent he inherits in San Diego.

Here's what makes this situation mystifying: everything Turner did -- or didn't do -- as a head coach seemed to evaporate as soon as a couple of head coaching vacancies opened up around the NFL. The Dallas Cowboys were seriously considering him for their job before they hired former Chargers defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, and now the Chargers have fallen in love with Turner. He was a valuable offensive coordinator for both the Cowboys and Chargers at one point, but that's the only thing he has going for him at this stage of his career. And that really isn't much when you think about what the Chargers are asking him to do, which is take the team to a Super Bowl.

After all, for every lesson that Turner provided to a Hall-of-Famer, such as former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman, there are probably 15 or 20 low points that any Washington Redskins fan easily can recall during his tenure with that team. For a coach who's built a reputation for molding an innovative offensive system that has produced huge years for stars such as Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Ricky Williams and LaDainian Tomlinson, Turner inexplicably couldn't get more out of Randy Moss during the '05 season, Moss' first year in Oakland.

I realize that Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy struck a major blow for mild-mannered coaches everywhere, but that doesn't mean that everybody with a low-key personality can lead their team to a Super Bowl. Moss was so disgusted with Turner by the end of '05 that he stormed out of Turner's last meeting with the team.

Now I seriously doubt that any player in San Diego will pull that same stunt. That team is filled with plenty of class acts who understand what it takes to win. But don't for a minute think they aren't capable of tuning out a coach who isn't capable of reaching them. Remember, this team isn't guaranteed to repeat its 14-2 record of this past season. The Chargers followed a 12-4 campaign in '04 by missing the playoffs entirely in '05, so they could easily take a step backwards. And if they start slowly, I don't see Turner as the man who can steady that team and push it back in the right direction.

Simply put, Turner is a wingman by nature. His best role on any team is that of offensive coordinator. He's more gifted at crafting plays than rallying a team. He's better at relating to a quarterback than communicating with a roster of 53 players. Put him next to a dynamic, cutthroat personality, such as his former boss in Dallas, Jimmy Johnson, and the man will shine. It's within that role that his true gifts reveal themselves, his ability to become a dependable confidant who can wrangle every last bit of potential out of a talented athlete. I saw that with the way Turner handled 49ers quarterback Alex Smith last season. After one offseason with Turner, Smith transformed from a quarterback who had no clue of how to succeed in the NFL to a confident, effective signal-caller. That's what a Norv Turner can do for a team.

What he can't do is change his track record or his nature. The bottom line here is that the Chargers don't need a head coach who can develop young players. They need a head coach who can take all their collective talent and guide it to a championship. There were certainly justifiable questions as to whether Schottenheimer would ever be that guy. But if the people in San Diego think they found an upgrade with the hiring of Turner, they need to start preparing for plenty of disappointment

Tre

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 08:40:39 AM »
I would've went with Rivera or Singletary personally.

No - you can't give this team to a first-year coach.

That being said, Norv Turner is worse than a first-year coach.

pumpster

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2007, 08:47:18 AM »
No - you can't give this team to a first-year coach.

That being said, Norv Turner is worse than a first-year coach.

Which is why bringing in Rivera as an assistant at least made some sense.

MidniteRambo

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 09:18:42 AM »
Obviously, no matter what you think of Marty, not an upgrade.

body88

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 09:46:53 AM »
There is always an Achilles heal, always! This was a bad move imo. To lose both coordinators, Chudzinsk, and then fire Marty for this guy? Puts the chargers in a pretty bad spot. I don't care how much talent you have, you have to have solid coaching. If they have a great season, we can all claim we supported the move all along :D ;)


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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 09:57:03 AM »
Turner with that team will have to win big games to get rid of the impressions and record he's made. Hard to believe they brought him in, this is a step backward. Rivera a year from now will be a nice fallback if needed but who knows what state the team's in by then?

Earl1972

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 10:41:04 AM »
i love the move

any non chargers fan should love it too :D

E
E

pumpster

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 02:04:10 PM »
This also potentially hurts the 49ers, because the 49ers QB said Turner was a huge factor towards his improvement. Hopefully he's already learned enough.

body88

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 02:28:37 PM »
This also potentially hurts the 49ers, because the 49ers QB said Turner was a huge factor towards his improvement. Hopefully he's already learned enough.


The guy is a great offensive coordinator.

gordiano

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2007, 01:03:05 AM »
i love the move

any non chargers fan should love it too :D

E

Good point.


I was gonna say it was an awful move.........but, since you put it that way.... ;)
HAHA, RON.....

pumpster

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2007, 11:57:45 AM »
Jerry Rice: Norv Turner 'Had No Control' Over Raiders
Add Jerry Rice to the long list of people who think the San Diego Chargers' decision to hire Norv Turner was a bad idea. On a radio appearance this morning, Rice said Turner was a good offensive coordinator, but that he lacked the motivational skills necessary to be a head coach.

"He could not motivate the players," Rice said. "He had no control."

Rice played for the Raiders in both of Turner's years as the team's head coach, and it's possible that he has an ax to grind: Turner kept Rice planted firmly on the bench in 2004, leading to Rice leaving for Seattle after four games. Still, in all of his stops Rice was known for showing respect to his coaches, and a coach who gets called out by Rice probably leaves something to be desired.

body88

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2007, 04:49:50 PM »
Jerry Rice: Norv Turner 'Had No Control' Over Raiders
Add Jerry Rice to the long list of people who think the San Diego Chargers' decision to hire Norv Turner was a bad idea. On a radio appearance this morning, Rice said Turner was a good offensive coordinator, but that he lacked the motivational skills necessary to be a head coach.

"He could not motivate the players," Rice said. "He had no control."

Rice played for the Raiders in both of Turner's years as the team's head coach, and it's possible that he has an ax to grind: Turner kept Rice planted firmly on the bench in 2004, leading to Rice leaving for Seattle after four games. Still, in all of his stops Rice was known for showing respect to his coaches, and a coach who gets called out by Rice probably leaves something to be desired.


Have to take that opinion seriously.  Rice is a straight shooter, and a stand up guy.

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Re: Turner and the chargers
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2007, 06:34:56 PM »
They've got the talent to make the playoffs, however, don't know if they'll be able to win in it. AFC is going to be loaded next year if Cinci and a few others teams get their acts together.