Cutting diet needs input.

[thewickedtruth]

This is what I've whipped together before I start this cutting diet to lose about 20lbs or so. here's what it entails



meal 1: Shake-75grams protien, 330 cals, 6 carbs
meal 2: Shake-75grams protien, 330 cals, 6 carbs
meal 3: Grilled tuna with salad and grilled veggies-560 cals, 42 grams of protien, 8 carbs,18 grams of fat
meal 4: BBQ chicken and grilled veggies-600 cals, 60grams of protien, 15 carbs, 24 grams of fat
meal 5: Shake-75grams protien, 330 cals, 6 carbs


And for snacks in between just some beef jerky, cream cheese and crackers, seafood salad, etc.

[DK II]

20lbs? That's a lot.

You have VERY low carbs, be sure to have a high carb day every 5-7 days. On that day, try to eat as much carbs as possible, best would be dextrose and complex carbs.

NO fructose, very little raffinated (white) sugar!

protein at 1g per lb bodyweight on refeed days.

other than that, your first two meals need some veggies and you could add some fish oil caps for omega3 fatty acids.

Are you planning on having a fatburner with that?

[thewickedtruth]

No sir. I kick the fat pretty easily. 20lbs isn't that much considering. I just don't want to drop it too fast. 20lbs is what i FEEL like I need to lose but 10lbs of fat couple with maybe one or two lean would look good too. I'll just go with how it looks on the way. Why the high carb day? To keep my body from gaining it back once I DO hop back on them? Fish oil caps are going down wiht a twice a day mulitvitamin to make up for what I'm losing.  Yeah I cut all the sugar out of my system. Only carbs I'm getting in are complex ones if and when I do.

[DK II]

No sir. I kick the fat pretty easily. 20lbs isn't that much considering. I just don't want to drop it too fast. 20lbs is what i FEEL like I need to lose but 10lbs of fat couple with maybe one or two lean would look good too. I'll just go with how it looks on the way. Why the high carb day? To keep my body from gaining it back once I DO hop back on them? Fish oil caps are going down wiht a twice a day mulitvitamin to make up for what I'm losing.  Yeah I cut all the sugar out of my system. Only carbs I'm getting in are complex ones if and when I do.

Your whole metabolism will start to slow down very fast with that plan of yours.

Do the high carb day, i promise you will not build up fat, but lose even more.

Why can that be? Your body needs hormones to store the carbs as fat, this will only happen with full glykogen stores in the liver.
When these stores are depleted and suddenly you kick in very much carbs, i'm talking 600-800g of carbs on a refeed, your body will store the carbs in muscles for energy, in the liver for energy and BURN (oxidate) a lot of it because there are no hormones that could store the fat.
You will gain weight on the refeed day, but no fat. Your muscles look full and hard and you will sweat all day.
The next day after that, your body will assume the starving is over and boost its metabolism up, but because there's nothing coming, you'll burn more fat.
It works, try it. 

[thewickedtruth]

What if I did that every 3rd or 4th day? I really appreciate you taking the time to sit here and go over this with me. I research it, counted them out, planned it, now needed someone from the outside looking it to give me some feedback. This is the first time I've taken this seriously. 

[DK II]

What if I did that every 3rd or 4th day? I really appreciate you taking the time to sit here and go over this with me. I research it, counted them out, planned it, now needed someone from the outside looking it to give me some feedback. This is the first time I've taken this seriously. 

It depends on the individual, if you do that every 3-4th, you could start gaining muscle and still lose fat or get fat, depending on how 'carb sensitive' you are. some people get fat with a lot of carbs very fast, others don't mind.

You have to try it out a bit. If you are at a high level of body fat, i would suggest you start at every 6 days and then look how you react. If you like it, go down to 5, then 4 etc. If you start getting fatter again, get back to 5 days. Or you could try to refeed only with complex carbs. wheat pasta, oatmeal and brown rice are ideal. between that, you drink water with dextrose and some ascorbin acid for the flavor. 

Drink green tea, that'll help you burn fat. About 1 liter every day is optimal.

[Tapeworm]

I've heard that carb cycling is good with 3 low/1 high, but don't take my word for it because I've always been too scared to try it.  I agree with DK though, don't stay low for over a week no matter what.

Also, how the hell do you get 18g and 24g of fat in meals 3 and 4 if everything is "grilled?"  That's suspect.

DK - 600g- 800g of carbs on a refeed day?  Wow!  Would you need that much after only 3 low days?

[thewickedtruth]

The fat was estimated. The tuna is pepper crusted so its' just grilled straight covered in pepper and seared. The chicken is skinless bbq'd. There's no fat in the bbq sauce I make but for a single chicken thigh? It can't be THAT high in fat. The frozen breasts I normally eat are about 10 each. What part is suspect? You're right, I'm going to try it and see where it goes. From then on I'll know what I'll need to do what with.

[DK II]

I've heard that carb cycling is good with 3 low/1 high, but don't take my word for it because I've always been too scared to try it.  I agree with DK though, don't stay low for over a week no matter what.

Also, how the hell do you get 18g and 24g of fat in meals 3 and 4 if everything is "grilled?"  That's suspect.

DK - 600g- 800g of carbs on a refeed day?  Wow!  Would you need that much after only 3 low days?

Like i said, for losing fat i would have 5-7 days between. 3 days is if you're REALLY low in bf. <10%

ON refeeds, you should try to shove in as much carbs as possible. They cannot be stored, so all you take more will be oxidated. Crazy pumps and sweating is the result. 

That's why i say to drink the carbs. Dextrose in water is the fastest way to get that. 

[Tapeworm]

Thanks DK.  That's good stuff.  I learned something on Getbig - I'll be damned.

WT - My info on a chicken breast (I admit dark meat will probably be fattier) gives 42g of protein and 8g fat for a skinless 150g.  I don't have tuna steak info, but canned stuff is 20.8g protein for only .7g fat, so the total fat in those meals seemed high to me.

I just noticed - meal 3 only adds up to 371 cals, and meal 4 to 516.  Don't you know that if you're going to cheat, you're supposed to cheat the other way! 

[DK II]

OK, then taht diet seriously needs some more fat.

Avocados, nuts, salmon steaks, olive oil.

This is very important as the body loses fat better when he gets some.
For health and hormonal reasons, get those fats into your diet. 

[SteelePegasus]

This is what I've whipped together before I start this cutting diet to lose about 20lbs or so. here's what it entails



meal 1: Shake-75grams protien, 330 cals, 6 carbs
meal 2: Shake-75grams protien, 330 cals, 6 carbs
meal 3: Grilled tuna with salad and grilled veggies-560 cals, 42 grams of protien, 8 carbs,18 grams of fat
meal 4: BBQ chicken and grilled veggies-600 cals, 60grams of protien, 15 carbs, 24 grams of fat
meal 5: Shake-75grams protien, 330 cals, 6 carbs


And for snacks in between just some beef jerky, cream cheese and crackers, seafood salad, etc.

what time frame are you working with?
what is your current weight/height and BF%?
are you competing?

if you are normal joe that is trying to drop 20% then this is not worth it and more than likely you will cheat and then fail

[canadian_husker]

what should a person's total calories be on a refeed day? how many grams of fat?

thanks....

[DK II]

what should a person's total calories be on a refeed day? how many grams of fat?

thanks....

calories up to 130~200% of normal daily intake.

NO FAT! because of the high insuline response all day you should try only to eat carbs all day, with a little bit of protein.
As this is nearly impossible, the range should be 10-15g of fat, omega3 only would be great.

[thewickedtruth]

Now that I've made the switch over to the cutting diet and I'm still not under 222 SOLIDLY, I'm starting to cut out 200 or so cals a day out. On the past few weeks I'm gaining strength AND fitting into smaller clothes but my measurements aren't going down if that makes since. Again for those that never caught the other posts about what I was eating, it looked like this...

shake
4 chicken breasts with veggies
shake
3-4 eggs with a steak or 4 chicken legs
shake
steak with veggies or 4 chicken legs

*i'm a leg man!*  

The more I look at it the more it resembles a clean bulk diet to me. Could explain alot about how I'm "looking better" with some more lines and more vascularity...OR it could be just from high blood pressure from all the meats!   I do know however that this far into it I should've easily shed about 8-10lbs and I haven't. It's been only a few.

this week I'm going...

shake (2 scoops instead of 3)
3 pieces of chicken with veggies
shake (2 scoops instead of 3)
6 eggs
2 pieces of chicken with veggies or a lean steak

knocking out 2 scoops, 1 from each shake, brings my calls down 220 on it's own. We'll see how that works.

[Hedgehog]

calories up to 130~200% of normal daily intake.

NO FAT! because of the high insuline response all day you should try only to eat carbs all day, with a little bit of protein.
As this is nearly impossible, the range should be 10-15g of fat, omega3 only would be great.

This is great advice.

Also try to down 3 grams of water for every gram of carb you eat.

Another thing, is to start out with fast carbs, such as cereals and some sweets (non-fat) and as the day progress, move on to slower carbs, pasta, and by the end of the day, whole grain pasta.

Keep the protein moderate, just go real high with carbs, and like DK pointed out, generally avoid fats.

-Hedge

[thewickedtruth]

This is great advice.

Also try to down 3 grams of water for every gram of carb you eat.

Another thing, is to start out with fast carbs, such as cereals and some sweets (non-fat) and as the day progress, move on to slower carbs, pasta, and by the end of the day, whole grain pasta.

Keep the protein moderate, just go real high with carbs, and like DK pointed out, generally avoid fats.

-Hedge

I'm getting my fats from my meats so I'm not so much worried about fats thought I'm doing more baking,grilling and poaching now than frying. I do feel like, due to my protien intake, that it's slowing me down so I'm brining out about 75-100 grams from the 2 less scoops and a couple less pieces of meat each day.

[thewickedtruth]

My carb day was ridiculous. I couldn't stop eating. I went cutting for 4 days and on the 5th I had a shitload of cookies, a gal of whole milk, 6 baked potatoes, 3 packages of cold cuts from the butcher's and a kids meal from mcdonalds. All day and yesterday I felt hard as nails. Now I'm starting to trail off abit. 

[DK II]

My carb day was ridiculous. I couldn't stop eating. I went cutting for 4 days and on the 5th I had a shitload of cookies, a gal of whole milk, 6 baked potatoes, 3 packages of cold cuts from the butcher's and a kids meal from mcdonalds. All day and yesterday I felt hard as nails. Now I'm starting to trail off abit. 

 

[thewickedtruth]

lol thanks big'n! 

[Necrosis]

carb cycling does not advocate three low or three high in a row ever.


its usually a no carb day followed by a high carb/refeed day followed by a low carb(bodyweight equivalent) carb day. coming all from complex carbs, with a small piece of fruit at select meal to keep liver glycogen full and the body in a feed state. it works well.


good advice so far, the high carb day should restore muscle glycogen and fullness with elevated RMR for a couple days after.

carb cycling is very effective for retaining muscle mass.

[thewickedtruth]

I only have one high carb day every 4-5 days depending on how I'm feeling. I'm not losing ANY muscle. If anything I'm gaining. My measurements are hte same but I'm getting more and more cut up but smaller in the waist. Abs are starting to show through for the first time in about 8 months lol. Yes I still wish I was at 250 but not the FAT 250.

[DK II]

I only have one high carb day every 4-5 days depending on how I'm feeling. I'm not losing ANY muscle. If anything I'm gaining. My measurements are hte same but I'm getting more and more cut up but smaller in the waist. Abs are starting to show through for the first time in about 8 months lol. Yes I still wish I was at 250 but not the FAT 250.

That's good, keep it up.

[Hedgehog]

My carb day was ridiculous. I couldn't stop eating. I went cutting for 4 days and on the 5th I had a shitload of cookies, a gal of whole milk, 6 baked potatoes, 3 packages of cold cuts from the butcher's and a kids meal from mcdonalds. All day and yesterday I felt hard as nails. Now I'm starting to trail off abit. 

The idea is to avoid fats on the carb up day.

So next time, ditch the whole milk. Skim milk instead.

What are cold cuts? If it's meat, then make sure it's fat free, and keep protein intake moderate.

Sorry, no kids meal on McDonalds. French Fries and the hamburger don't cut it.

The white bun is good though, fast carbs.

-Hedge

[Tapeworm]

"Cold cuts" is a generic term for deli-style mixed meats such as salami, purchased presliced (as well as shaved meats like sliced ham, I think).  Most likely high fat.