I've been predicting this for months, I tell you... Welcome to the future

[ribonucleic]

God I hate having been right about this. 
------------------------------------------

Colorado to use inmates to fill migrant shortage
Tough laws passed last year against illegal immigration have created a need for farmworkers.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-inmates1mar01%2C0%2C7469220.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Camel Jockey]

Now that's fucked up!

Just give all the illegals currently here amnesty and close the borders.. 

[ribonucleic]

A lot of land-based work in the Stalin-era Soviet Union was also done by prison labor, as I recall.

[Hugo Chavez]

fuck.... well that's not the right solution

[Hugo Chavez]

A lot of land-based work in the Stalin-era Soviet Union was also done by prison labor, as I recall.

and China...

[BRUCE]

A lot of land-based work in the Stalin-era Soviet Union was also done by prison labor, as I recall.

You fool.  Perhaps you should consider why Soviet Russia imprisoned such poor men in the Gulag - it was illegal to even tell jokes during this period.  See also the level of treatment dished out in this barbaric era.
 
You reveal yourself, again, as an immensely biased and irrational member by comparing the US prison system to the Soviet Gulag.

[ribonucleic]

Perhaps you should consider why Soviet Russia imprisoned such poor men in the Gulag

Solzhenitsyn made it seem like some archetypal enactment of man's sinfulness before God. Of course, he was an artist.

But Anne Appelbaum's Gulag: A History suggests that the arrests were, in an odd way, sincere. Once the people had accepted the insane premise that the flourishing of Communism was actually more important than individuals, it was relatively easy to convince themselves that the neighbor must be a foreign spy because they spoke German.

And Stalin's paranoia - whatever else one might say about it - clearly came from the heart.

[BRUCE]

Solzhenitsyn made it seem like some archetypal enactment of man's sinfulness before God. Of course, he was an artist.

But Anne Appelbaum's Gulag: A History suggests that the arrests were, in an odd way, sincere. Once the people had accepted the insane premise that the flourishing of Communism was actually more important than individuals, it would relatively easy to convince themselves that the neighbor must be a foreign spy because they spoke German.

And Stalin's paranoia - whatever else one might say about it - clearly came from the heart.

How revealing, your apparent support of Stalin and Communism speaks wonders.  How dare you accuse the US of human rights violations when you actively engage the board in applauding such brutalism.  I'll say it again - you're a fool.

[ribonucleic]

How revealing, your apparent support of Stalin and Communism speaks wonders.  How dare you accuse the US of human rights violations when you actively engage the board in applauding such brutalism. 

Your condemnation of it is kind of ironic. You'd have fit in well there with your passion for doctrinal conformity.

Actually, I think you'd have made an efficient NKVD captain.

[BRUCE]

Your condemnation of it is kind of ironic. You'd have fit in well there with your passion for doctrinal conformity.

Actually, I think you'd have made an efficient NKVD captain.

Whoops, and followed up with an entirely inaccurate claim against my 'passion' for 'conformity'.  You're building nicely on your reputation here as a far-Left admirer of torture, socialism and anything anti-establishment and/or capitalist.  I understand this is the 'Indymedia' phase of your life you're going through right now, but keep us updated for when you mature into a more developed and reasonable view of the World.

Speaking of which, you'll no doubt enlighten me as to which socialist paradise you currently reside?

[ieffinhatecardio]

How revealing, your apparent support of Stalin and Communism speaks wonders.  How dare you accuse the US of human rights violations when you actively engage the board in applauding such brutalism.  I'll say it again - you're a fool.

I have a query for you bruce, why do you get so upset over something ribo says about the US? I'm really not picking on you here, I'm actually curious. Why would an Australian get upset when an American criticizes America?

Please try and keep your reply civilized, this was a serious question.

[kh300]

my wife moved here from greece when she was 18, only got in because she was a college student.. her family took over 5 years to get here.. many familys try to come to the us the right/legal way but get denied. but why should we allow the people that came here illegally citizenship? to me thats not fair to the people that do it the right way

[BRUCE]

I have a query for you bruce, why do you get so upset over something ribo says about the US? I'm really not picking on you here, I'm actually curious. Why would an Australian get upset when an American criticizes America?

Please try and keep your reply civilized, this was a serious question.

 Firstly, I'd like to think I'm always civilised when answering a serious question, and I thank you for posing this one.

Actually, I wasn't as riled by RN's comments in terms of its obvious connotations towards the US - I was more struck by his support for a despotic communistic regime, and its brutality against its citizens.  You'll join with me in condemning RN for being a proponent of Stalin's evil empire.

America, by no coincidence, is the World's largest nation economically, and is also militarily the most advanced.  It's a great advocate of the freedoms you and I enjoy daily, and is Australia's closest ally.  It's not secret I have great admiration for the American system and way of life.

In saying this, for a fool like RN to come along and compare America's penal system with that of Stalin’s Soviet Russia is beyond outrageous.  On top of this, he then throws his defence behind the regime that created such incomprehensible breaches of human rights, and simultaneously contradicts his initial contempt for the US' apparent plot to use prisoners as cheap labour.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Firstly, I'd like to think I'm always civilised when answering a serious question, and I thank you for posing this one.

Actually, I wasn't as riled by RN's comments in terms of its obvious connotations towards the US - I was more struck by his support for a despotic communistic regime, and its brutality against its citizens.  You'll join with me in condemning RN for being a proponent of Stalin's evil empire.

America, by no coincidence, is the World's largest nation economically, and is also militarily the most advanced.  It's a great advocate of the freedoms you and I enjoy daily, and is Australia's closest ally.  It's not secret I have great admiration for the American system and way of life.

In saying this, for a fool like RN to come along and compare America's penal system with that of Stalin’s Soviet Russia is beyond outrageous.  On top of this, he then throws his defence behind the regime that created such incomprehensible breaches of human rights, and simultaneously contradicts his initial contempt for the US' apparent plot to use prisoners as cheap labour.

OK, thanks for the answer.

ribo has a little of 240 in him, meaning that he makes outlandish posts that he probably doesn't whole heartedly believe. At least that's my interpretation.  I think he enjoys getting under the skin of the board's conservatives.

I still find it curious that you would get so riled up over something said about the US. If the roles were reversed and you were arguing with another Australian about Australia it would be a safe bet that none of the American board members would get as upset as you got.

[BRUCE]

OK, thanks for the answer.

ribo has a little of 240 in him, meaning that he makes outlandish posts that he probably doesn't whole heartedly believe. At least that's my interpretation.  I think he enjoys getting under the skin of the board's conservatives.

I still find it curious that you would get so riled up over something said about the US. If the roles were reversed and you were arguing with another Australian about Australia it would be a safe bet that none of the American board members would get as upset as you got.

Possibly, but we need you more than you need us.  And desperately so.  Need I remind you we have the World's largest Islamic nation a matter of kilometres off our coastline, if they turn nasty, we need friends like the US.

RN strikes me as very serious in what he believes, rather than pretending he's saying things in jest, I'd presume he is intelligent enough to mean what he says.  I take him at his word.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Possibly, but we need you more than you need us.  And desperately so.  Need I remind you we have the World's largest Islamic nation a matter of kilometres off our coastline, if they turn nasty, we need friends like the US.

RN strikes me as very serious in what he believes, rather than pretending he's saying things in jest, I'd presume he is intelligent enough to mean what he says.  I take him at his word.

I believe ribo is very intelligent. I also believe he likes to stir the pot. I saw a poster yesterday say that ribo wants soldiers to die. Do you believe he wants soldiers to die? I know I don't believe he does but someone read his posts and came to that conclusion.

I understand Australia needs the USA more than the USA needs Australia but that doesn't explain the way you react in defense of the USA. We have multiple Canadians on this board and they have no problem criticizing America, and no ones needs us more than Canada. Well, except for Mexico. 

[BRUCE]

I believe ribo is very intelligent. I also believe he likes to stir the pot. I saw a poster yesterday say that ribo wants soldiers to die. Do you believe he wants soldiers to die? I know I don't believe he does but someone read his posts and came to that conclusion.

I understand Australia needs the USA more than the USA needs Australia but that doesn't explain the way you react in defense of the USA. We have multiple Canadians on this board and they have no problem criticizing America, and no ones needs us more than Canada. Well, except for Mexico. 

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you are more comfortable with foreigners criticising the US than defending it.

Ribonucleic has stated he wants the US to lose in Iraq.  That means he wants US soldiers to die in the process of losing.  There is no ambiguity there, he concluded for us.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you are more comfortable with foreigners criticising the US than defending it.

Ribonucleic has stated he wants the US to lose in Iraq.  That means he wants US soldiers to die in the process of losing.  There is no ambiguity there, he concluded for us.

Of course there's ambiguity, lose can mean different things that don't all mean dead soldiers. I interpret his statements of losing as us pulling out of Iraq which would constitute losing the war without a loss of life. I don't interpret his statements as use losing battles and therefore losing soldiers.

bruce, I live in the USA. I'm used to people criticizing us, if I got upset with every non-citizen that had something negative to say about us then I'd be in a perpetual state of anger.

The fact remains you defend the US as if it were your country, again, I'm not criticizing. I just find it curious.

[BRUCE]

bruce, I live in the USA. I'm used to people criticizing us, if I got upset with every non-citizen that had something negative to say about us then I'd be in a perpetual state of anger.

The fact remains you defend the US as if it were your country, again, I'm not criticizing. I just find it curious.

No, for you see, you get upset more when someone defends the US, which is obviously in line with your political beliefs.  Your real problem is not that I'm an Australian that defends the US, it's just that I defend the US in the first place.

As for Ribonucleic, your attempts to trivialise something very clear that he stated is worrying.  He didn't say he wanted a withdrawal, he said he wanted a loss.  His choice of words.

[24KT]

It's just a revised form of slavery. They've been using prison labour for a while.
They bang out all sorts of nifty things from license plates, to credit cards, to denim jeans.
...all for less than minimum wage. It's corporate america's wet dream. why do think Wackenhut stock did so well. They were building all the prisons.

[BRUCE]

It's just a revised form of slavery. They've been using prison labour for a while.
They bang out all sorts of nifty things from license plates, to credit cards, to denim jeans.
...all for less than minimum wage. It's corporate america's wet dream. why do think Wackenhut stock did so well. They were building all the prisons.

Oh, those poor inmates.

[ieffinhatecardio]

No, for you see, you get upset more when someone defends the US, which is obviously in line with your political beliefs.  Your real problem is not that I'm an Australian that defends the US, it's just that I defend the US in the first place.

As for Ribonucleic, your attempts to trivialise something very clear that he stated is worrying.  He didn't say he wanted a withdrawal, he said he wanted a loss.  His choice of words.

Do you really think you're in any position to tell me what I'm thinking? Get off your high horse. All you're doing is obscuring the fact that you care too much about a country that has nothing to do with you. The average high school in the USA has more students than your country (on the other side of the planet) has soldiers in Iraq yet you passionately involve yourself in everything USA. That's curious.

BTW I've had more arguments with jag about the USA than I have with you but why let facts get in the way of your argument.

As I stated, a loss can mean different things that don't involve soldiers dying. I don't believe ribo wants soldiers to die. I believe he wants  Bush to fail.

[BRUCE]

Do you really think you're in any position to tell me what I'm thinking? Get off your high horse. All you're doing is obscuring the fact that you care too much about a country that has nothing to do with you. The average high school in the USA has more students than your country (on the other side of the planet) has soldiers in Iraq yet you passionately involve yourself in everything USA. That's curious.

BTW I've had more arguments with jag about the USA than I have with you but why let facts get in the way of your argument.

As I stated, a loss can mean different things that don't involve soldiers dying. I don't believe ribo wants soldiers to die. I believe he wants  Bush to fail.

You're an idiot (he is guys, I'm sorry).  I'm done arguing such matters with you.  Come up with an issue to debate me on or find another person to stalk, I'm fed up pleading to you why America is important to me as an Australian.

[ieffinhatecardio]

You're an idiot (he is guys, I'm sorry).  I'm done arguing such matters with you.  Come up with an issue to debate me on or find another person to stalk, I'm fed up pleading to you why America is important to me as an Australian.

Why do you meltdown so easily?

Who do you think you're apologizing to? Do you really think anyone cares that you called me an idiot? LOL

The "stalking" crap is weak, it makes you look even worse since you only use it when you can't defend yourself.   

[Dos Equis]

It's just a revised form of slavery. They've been using prison labour for a while.
They bang out all sorts of nifty things from license plates, to credit cards, to denim jeans.
...all for less than minimum wage. It's corporate america's wet dream. why do think Wackenhut stock did so well. They were building all the prisons.

What the . . . . ??!!  Jag you have got to be kidding.  Are you suggesting prison workers should be paid minimum wage?  They are lucky they get paid anything.  Don't forget they get free room and board at my expense.