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Author Topic: Sergio Oliva - London 1972  (Read 11887 times)
pumpster
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« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2007, 06:37:07 AM »

I don't think they would look as good with today's drugs and guts, no.

My own preference i think would be Schwarzenegger, just because of that kind of leaness, slightly better aesthetics and height coupled with similar size to Oliva excepting thighs, & more dramatic musculature. The shortcoming in thighs was addressed pretty well due to great cuts & shape, great calves and posing them at perfect angles that made them look as good as they could. But Oliva should've won some of the time in the early 70s in fair contests, and should've been in Pumping Iron to properly represent BB then. Politics; too bad Butler didn't at least try to include some stock good clips of Oliva in the movie, such as the one with Zane from '72.

Coleman if he wanted to be better when he got bigger shouldn't have been doing any heavy squats, only hard work on refining movements for thighs and lots of running, to bring them down in size and much more work on calves. He didn't do everything he could to be great because of this IMO.

In fact because Coleman's weakness is dryness and hardness, he really should've stayed smaller and leaner as in the late 90s to minimize that. The probable reason he didn't was likely an enjoyment of eating and the harshness of dieting down-something along the lines of why Oliva was rarely cut.
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« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2007, 07:16:47 AM »

  Pumpy, we will continue this conversation later. I need to go now. It's nice to see that at least we have common ground on Oliva and Arnold. Wink

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« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2007, 09:23:59 PM »

I don't think they would look as good with today's drugs and guts, no.

My own preference i think would be Schwarzenegger, just because of that kind of leaness, slightly better aesthetics and height coupled with similar size to Oliva excepting thighs, & more dramatic musculature. The shortcoming in thighs was addressed pretty well due to great cuts & shape, great calves and posing them at perfect angles that made them look as good as they could. But Oliva should've won some of the time in the early 70s in fair contests, and should've been in Pumping Iron to properly represent BB then. Politics; too bad Butler didn't at least try to include some stock good clips of Oliva in the movie, such as the one with Zane from '72.

Coleman if he wanted to be better when he got bigger shouldn't have been doing any heavy squats, only hard work on refining movements for thighs and lots of running, to bring them down in size and much more work on calves. He didn't do everything he could to be great because of this IMO.

In fact because Coleman's weakness is dryness and hardness, he really should've stayed smaller and leaner as in the late 90s to minimize that. The probable reason he didn't was likely an enjoyment of eating and the harshness of dieting down-something along the lines of why Oliva was rarely cut.

  I was never very impressed with Coleman's physique, perhaps because he has neither the dramatic muscle bellies of Arnold and Sergio or the super-hard look of Ray/Dorian/Gaspari/Labrada/Aykutlu that I admire so much. Nevertheless, I think that he looked spectacular at the 1998 Olympia. You might have gotten the wrong impression about me from the truce thread. The reason why I believe Dorian would win boils down to greater muscularity and hardness, even though I admit that Ronnie was far more aesthetically pleasant at that weight than Dorian. Regardless, even though we disagree about Dorian vs Ronnie, I think that we can both agree that he looked grotesque in his 2003/4 Olympia forms. Yes, Pumpy, his quads were ridiculously massive, but they came at the expense of huge glutes, which a male is not supposed to have. Furthermore, he lost a lot of the definition and striations that he had at 250 lbs - and the gut spirraled out of control. As you can see from the truce thread, I regard Coleman's 1998 Olympia physique as one of the best ever. Also, I find your criticisms of Dorian's physique to be excessively harsh and unfair. Even if you hate his physique, give him props for his determination and for the fact that he made the best with what he had. Smiley Just out of curiosity, Pumpy, and even though I know you hate his physique, what year do you think Dorian looked his best?

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« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2007, 11:57:32 PM »

-Coleman's never been one of my faves, because of the lack of hardness/some water, and the gyno. Generally looks too loose. In the late 90s where he was so shredded it almost compensated for most but not all of the above negatives, but shredded and dense aren't the same although equally impressive. If he had stayed as he was in the late 90s he'd have been much better; in the last several years with too much weight he reminds me of Robby Robinson in the '78 Olympia, looking awesome in size but losing too many other qualities.

-I don't know enough about Yates' best years, probably '93 or '94. Though i've never been a fan and find that like Columbu his physique's a little too much like a powerlifter with the exaggerated torso built for strength, i have to admit that some of the shots in the truce thread are really impressive and changed some of my views that were based on less impressive shots. Because unlike most BBs and especially BBs of the last 20 or more years, he had that great dryness and density which is rare, and seems to have been one of the casualties of today's drugs.

The guys in the 60s and 70s were drier in general when at their best, guys like Sipes, Draper, etc. Yates' conditioning reminds me of Robinson first, then Columbu. Robinson was IMO along with Padilla the best post-Schwarzenegger BB until the 90s, better than the 80s guys. Haney was a huge Robinson fan. I think that density and dryness are some of the most impressive attributes and will always be attractive, whereas size now has actually gotten to be too much IMO, which wasn't imaginable in the 70s. An unnatural look and consequence of meddling with the body's fundamental chemistry through GH and insulin, IMO. Yates didn't have a bad look using those drugs when lean in contest shape, the dryness countered some of the negatives.

Now after the truce thread i regret not picking up Yates and his girlfriend here outside the NY contest almost two years ago. They were alone on the other side of the street about 4 blocks from the show, unable to find a taxi as i climbed into a SUV. I should've offered them a lift.


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« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2007, 08:37:37 PM »

-Coleman's never been one of my faves, because of the lack of hardness/some water, and the gyno. Generally looks too loose. In the late 90s where he was so shredded it almost compensated for most but not all of the above negatives, but shredded and dense aren't the same although equally impressive. If he had stayed as he was in the late 90s he'd have been much better; in the last several years with too much weight he reminds me of Robby Robinson in the '78 Olympia, looking awesome in size but losing too many other qualities.

  Exactly. They always point out how much bigger Ronnie was than Dorian, but they ignore that a significant part of that weight is fat and water. Ronnie's gut in 2003 surpassed even that of the 1997 Dorian in size, but with the difference that Dorian still looked super-hard, while Coleman lost too much crispness of detail.

Quote
-I don't know enough about Yates' best years, probably '93 or '94. Though i've never been a fan and find that like Columbu his physique's a little too much like a powerlifter with the exaggerated torso built for strength, i have to admit that some of the shots in the truce thread are really impressive and changed some of my views that were based on less impressive shots. Because unlike most BBs and especially BBs of the last 20 or more years, he had that great dryness and density which is rare, and seems to have been one of the casualties of today's drugs.

  I think his best year was 1995. His gut was under control and he came in with his trademark hardness. Not only that, he added separations to his back that he didn't have before and he was much fuller. Pumpy, i never claimed that Dorian became Mr.Olympia based on his aesthetics; he became Mr.Olympia because of his unbelievable level of muscular development - for the time - and even more unbelievable conditioning. The I.F.B.B judges faced a  huge dilema when it came to Dorian's physique: on one hand, they observed his almost complete lack of aesthetics and taper; on th eother, they observed that he had the highest degree of muscular development of all contenders, and that he presented it with super-human hardness. So what were they supposed to do? There were several guys who were more pleaant to the eyes, but looked like children next to Dorian and also soft. And it is hard to deny the title of Mr.Olympia to the guy who has the highest degree of muscular development and comes in super-hard. Not only that, Dorian compensated for his structual shortcomings in many ways. Fro instance, he compensated for his wide hips and waist with the best abdominals and serratus ever seen on a big bodybuilder. He compensated for his sub-par biceps by having one of the best side triceps shot ever.

Quote
The guys in the 60s and 70s were drier in general when at their best, guys like Sipes, Draper, etc. Yates' conditioning reminds me of Robinson first, then Columbu. Robinson was IMO along with Padilla the best post-Schwarzenegger BB until the 90s, better than the 80s guys. Haney was a huge Robinson fan. I think that density and dryness are some of the most impressive attributes and will always be attractive, whereas size now has actually gotten to be too much IMO, which wasn't imaginable in the 70s. An unnatural look and consequence of meddling with the body's fundamental chemistry through GH and insulin, IMO. Yates didn't have a bad look using those drugs when lean in contest shape, the dryness countered some of the negatives.

  I agre, Pumpy! I think that these drugs work for mass, but not so much for separations and hardness. All the guys who increase their drug intake get bigger, but their muscle quality is not the same. Even if they gain pure muscle, their muscles look less separated and softer than at a low weight. Proof? All of the tiny bodybuilders. like Ray, Labrada, Benffato, etc, always have the most defined and harder physiques! All of the really big guys don't have as much separations as the small guys. Mark my words: Phil Heath will have lost lots of his current outstanding muscle quality after he gains another 40 lbs of muscle through drugs and becomes Mr.Olympia.

Quote
Now after the truce thread i regret not picking up Yates and his girlfriend here outside the NY contest almost two years ago. They were alone on the other side of the street about 4 blocks from the show, unable to find a taxi as i climbed into a SUV. I should've offered them a lift.

  Yes, you should have. Contrary to what you think, Dorian is one of the nicest guys out there. Remember during the 1990s, when every month FLEX carried comments from some pro where he denigrated Dorianšs physique or Dorian himself, and Dozzer just kept quiet. There is almost a consensus that Dorian is one of the nicest pros out there. Smiley

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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2007, 10:57:35 AM »

http://www.bodybuildingreviews.net/vidreviews/GZaneOliva901.html

See my review of the Gallasch film these shots were taken from.  It's available on DVD (as linked). 
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« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2008, 09:42:47 PM »

1972


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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2008, 09:46:13 PM »

1972 O.


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« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2008, 02:12:27 AM »

Screen-cap of SERGIOS MASSIVE back at the 72 O.


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« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2008, 02:19:26 AM »

A not so common picture of 3 BB Legends @ the 1972 OLYMPIA Relaxed!!!


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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2008, 04:33:23 AM »

A not so common picture of 3 BB Legends @ the 1972 OLYMPIA Relaxed!!!

Great shot.
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« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2008, 01:09:50 AM »

Great pics! Thank you! In 72 Sergio was just unreal. The 73 version of Arnold probably was equal or better, more refined anyway, and in 74 Arnolds mass probably was equal to Sergio. But 72 was Sergios year, even Arnold said that.
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« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2008, 01:21:33 AM »

Great pics! Thank you! In 72 Sergio was just unreal. The 73 version of Arnold probably was equal or better, more refined anyway, and in 74 Arnolds mass probably was equal to Sergio. But 72 was Sergios year, even Arnold said that.

When/where did Arnold say that?
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« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2008, 12:19:57 AM »

W/S Park 1972 Cool


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« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2008, 12:15:17 AM »

When/where did Arnold say that?
   He said something to the effect of "If I had  been a judge, I would have picked Sergio, but
I wasn't a judge, I was competing against him, so what do you want from me?" .
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« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2008, 01:42:24 AM »

   He said something to the effect of "If I had  been a judge, I would have picked Sergio, but
I wasn't a judge, I was competing against him, so what do you want from me?" .

Thanks. I'm curious to know where that is from, as Arnold does look at that particular contest with a positive light towards Sergio.
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« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2008, 01:03:16 AM »

The best V-Taper around 1972 Shocked....


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« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2008, 08:23:59 PM »

A not so common picture of 3 BB Legends @ the 1972 OLYMPIA Relaxed!!!

WOW Shocked

This is what I am going for.. Serge Nubret's conditioning, Sergio's size and Arnold's charisma and nice peaked biceps.
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« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2008, 11:27:43 PM »

 Shocked


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« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2008, 02:12:42 AM »

Thanks. I'm curious to know where that is from, as Arnold does look at that particular contest with a positive light towards Sergio.
   It was in an old Muscle and Fitness, I can't recall the exact issue/article, but I will dig through my old stack when I get the time, bear with me. Also to whet your appetite read the part in his "Education of a Bodybuilder" when he describes his first encounter with Oliva at his first Mr O. Good stuff!
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« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2008, 05:50:53 AM »

   It was in an old Muscle and Fitness, I can't recall the exact issue/article, but I will dig through my old stack when I get the time, bear with me. Also to whet your appetite read the part in his "Education of a Bodybuilder" when he describes his first encounter with Oliva at his first Mr O. Good stuff!

Yes, my favorite part is when he says some of his pump actually went away. LOL! That's bodybuilding. Wink
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« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2008, 01:16:48 AM »

1972 Sergio Victory Shocked


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« Reply #72 on: November 28, 2008, 02:45:28 AM »

Arnold FDB 1972!! Wink


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