CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????

[The True Adonis]

Do you actually read the studies you talk about?

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/1/55

Ten healthy, normal weight, non-smoking female volunteers aged 19-22 years

change that to ten 230lb plus hard training offseason bodybuilders eating 6-7 meals a day and the (daily) thermic effect would be equal to roughly 45 minutes on a treadmill calorie wise PLUS thermogenesis at 2.5 hours post-meal averaged about twofold higher on the high protein diet versus the high carbohydrate diet

The amount is still minimal.

You can get the same effect by cutting protein by about 40 grams,since we CLEARLY do not NEED or USE the protein amount you purportedly recommend, this would be an easier and more efficient approach at no sacrafice to anything. 

Seriously, your High Protien diet recommendations are pointless and inefficient.   You can`t argue with that.

[nycbull]

Muscle glycogen storage and its relationship with water.Sherman WM, Plyley MJ, Sharp RL, Van Handel PJ, McAllister RM, Fink WJ, Costill DL.
This study examined the relationship between muscle glycogen and muscle water content. Exercise dietary manipulations were used to vary skeletal muscle glycogen levels in four groups of rodents: (1) eight animals were sedentary controls (SC); (2) ten animals were treadmill familiarized and allowed to recover 24 h before sacrifice (F); (3) ten animals were treadmill familiarized and exercised to exhaustion (E); (4) ten animals were treadmill familiarized, exercised to exhaustion, and allowed to recover with food and water ad libitum for 72 h (ER). All animals were sacrificed in a resting state to normalize intracellular, extracellular, and interstitial water compartments; thus, the E group was sacrificed 45 m in following their run. The treatments altered skeletal muscle glycogen to values ranging from 10.0 to 30.2 mumol glucosyl units/g wet tissue weight. Neither muscle triglyceride nor protein levels were affected by the treatments. Muscle water content expressed as mumol H2O lost/g wet tissue weight or made relative to protein content showed no consistent relationship to the glycogen content. These data, therefore, do not support the commonly accepted muscle glycogen-to-water ratio of 1.0:2.7 (g:g). Further work is necessary to quantify the exact amount of water that is actually associated with the glycogen complex.
PMID: 7068293 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

although I am all behind your quest for scientific truth. Animal studies rarely provide it. Extrapolating animal studies to humans is a fools game.  I believe it is in fact is slowing down progress for human beings.

[JackIt]

Adonis, normally i don't answer to your posts, but lately you're just to dumb to be ignored !

Do you recognise that changing the topic of your statement doesn't change the fact that what you just said is wrong!!!

Please just stop it ....

[The True Adonis]

although I am all behind your quest for scientific truth. Animal studies rarely provide it. Extrapolating animal studies to humans is a fools game.  

Not at all.

Rats are VERY similar to humans in a lot of areas. Humans and rats have the same basic physiology, similar organs, and similar body plans. We both control our body chemistry using similar hormones, we  both have nervous systems that work in the same way, and we both react similarly to      infection and injury.

You have to realize also that actual Glycogen in rats, and the actual muscle tissue in rats is the same as we have.  
No difference.

[The True Adonis]

1400 Cal (350 g) of glycogen would have 1050 g of water hanging out with it.  that is over a quart of water

do you really think that you could not tell the difference between a quart of water being under your skin (smoothing out muscle definition, striations, veins, graininess, etc) and that same quart of water being inside your muscles (making your muscles take up that much more space, pushing your muscles against the skin increasing definition, striations, etc.) ??

and that is assuming that your body will not store more muscle glycogen than normal after being depleted.

Again.

You are not correct.  Your Glycogen stores can never be full as energy is always in motion. That is nitpicking so to speak, but I won`t even address that.

There is no standard for the binding of water molecules to Glycogen and furthermore you are ignoring the Liver all together and figuring that in with your above equation.

You need to rethink your approach a bit.

[The True Adonis]

1400 Cal (350 g) of glycogen would have 1050 g of water hanging out with it.  that is over a quart of water

do you really think that you could not tell the difference between a quart of water being under your skin (smoothing out muscle definition, striations, veins, graininess, etc) and that same quart of water being inside your muscles (making your muscles take up that much more space, pushing your muscles against the skin increasing definition, striations, etc.) ??

and that is assuming that your body will not store more muscle glycogen than normal after being depleted.

Also, you have to realize the water content of muscles and you are not.

[Naked4Jesus]

Do you actually read the studies you talk about?

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/1/55

Ten healthy, normal weight, non-smoking female volunteers aged 19-22 years

change that to ten 230lb plus hard training offseason bodybuilders eating 6-7 meals a day and the (daily) thermic effect would be equal to roughly 45 minutes on a treadmill calorie wise PLUS thermogenesis at 2.5 hours post-meal averaged about twofold higher on the high protein diet versus the high carbohydrate diet

Interesting... so you don't spend all your time rinsing your beef then?

[Chico_Holiday]

Can Adonis post video evidence of his 225lbs. 112 rep deadlift?   

[DK II]

Can Adonis post video evidence of his 225lbs. 112 rep deadlift?   

No he's busy sucking his boyfriend's cock.

[Chico_Holiday]

No he's busy sucking his boyfriend's cock.

Hahaha.............that's an integral part of the "Adonis Principles"

[DK II]

Hahaha.............that's an integral part of the "Adonis Principles"

Yes, protein straight from the tab.

When True Gaydonis sucks off heroin addicts behind the main station, he calls that 'junk food'.

[Necrosis]

Yes, protein straight from the tab.

When True Gaydonis sucks off heroin addicts behind the main station, he calls that 'junk food'.

HAHAHAHHAH

[nycbull]

Not at all.

Rats are VERY similar to humans in a lot of areas. Humans and rats have the same basic physiology, similar organs, and similar body plans. We both control our body chemistry using similar hormones, we  both have nervous systems that work in the same way, and we both react similarly to      infection and injury.

You have to realize also that actual Glycogen in rats, and the actual muscle tissue in rats is the same as we have.  
No difference.

Hell, all animals are similiar to humans, we are all flesh and blood. However studies on rats are becoming more and more disregarded as offering any help to humans. For example Valium, and flouride cause cancer in rats, and cola causes renal failure. Yet Arcenic is perfectly safe for rats.

The New York Times has even listed animal studies as the least reliable data to extrapolate to human beings. In a recent article Dr. Oldens the Director of the Health Science Institute recommends that the government should no longer rely on animal studies...that animal research, by itself, should no longer be accepted as a reliable means of judging risks for humans. and that two thirds of substances that proved to be cancerous in animals are safe in humans.

So if animal testing is so unreliable I think it is safe to assume that glycogen studies are just as unreliable.

You can try but I doubt you will find any answers in a rat cage. If that were the case we would have had cures for cancer and many  other life dibilatating diseases years ago.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE2DC153FF930A15750C0A965958260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1

[Hedgehog]

Only 1 PERCENT of glycogen is stored in the muscles.

So therefore if your Glycogen levels are Full, around 2000 calories, Just one percent is in the muscles around 20 calories.

THIS IS NOT ENOUGH TO PRODUCE ANY DIFFERENCE!

20 calories equals roughly 5 grams of carbs.

What makes you think muscles can only store a total of 5 grams of carbs?


From what I know, elite level athletes can store approx 1.8-2 lbs of glycogen in their muscles.

-Hedge

[The True Adonis]

20 calories equals roughly 5 grams of carbs.

What makes you think muscles can only store a total of 5 grams of carbs?


From what I know, elite level athletes can store approx 1.8-2 lbs of glycogen in their muscles.

-Hedge

You didn`t read correctly.

Elite Athletes, marathon runners, can store 1800-2000 calories worth of Glycogen.  That is less than half of a 1 LB.

That is on the high end of the spectrum and including Liver Glucose, Brain Glucose and "Blood" Glucose.

Muscles are made up of about 1 percent of Glucose.


Also, different muscles store different amounts of Glycogen so its is indeterminable regarding caloric storage amounts for each muscle, unless measured.

[The True Adonis]

20 calories equals roughly 5 grams of carbs.

What makes you think muscles can only store a total of 5 grams of carbs?


From what I know, elite level athletes can store approx 1.8-2 lbs of glycogen in their muscles.

-Hedge

I fixed it.

IT should read:
Only 1 PERCENT of muscle is made up of glycogen.

So therefore if your Glycogen levels are Full, around 2000 calories THIS IS NOT ENOUGH TO PRODUCE ANY DIFFERENCE!

Sorry for the confusion.

[affy]

Not right now.  I am busy.

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[affy]

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meltdown

[Saxon]

I am agreeing with it, I think you are mistaking what I said!  My wording may not have been initially clear.

No, I wasn't mistaking anything.  You were mistaken at the start but your theory still holds credence.

[pinchharmonic]

1. LOL

2. I won't post on this thread again, I'll let you dangle the carrot in front of everyone else's face  That answer summed it up for me bro.

3. You should pick up a physio book and learn the basics before spouting off and quoting these studies man.

4. LOL

5. Who said the "spilling over" phenomenon seen in bodybuilding is due to glycogen?  And what would a picture of a smooth bodybuilder prove, biochemically speaking

6. For the record, glycogen is NOT found in the blood man!  It's the S-T-O-R-A-G-E form of glucose!  So, "glycogen" doesn't "GO" anywhere....thought you knew foo!  Better "aks" somebody!!!!

7,8,9 LOL!

lol can't let this one slip under the radar ppl....

[onlyme]

Not at all.

Rats are VERY similar to humans in a lot of areas. Humans and rats have the same basic physiology, similar organs, and similar body plans. We both control our body chemistry using similar hormones, we  both have nervous systems that work in the same way, and we both react similarly to      infection and injury.

You have to realize also that actual Glycogen in rats, and the actual muscle tissue in rats is the same as we have.  
No difference.

This is the most truthful post you have made beside the one you admit being a bisexual.

[Doublemonk]

And you are seriously claiming to have degrees in molecular biology and chemics, yet you are not even able to understand the concepts behind osmosis and molarity (as witnessed on another thread).
You must have skipped the lectures in your first semester as this is basic stuff.....

[delta9mda]

At max you ONLY hold 20 calories or so worth of Glycogen in your muscles at any given time for your ENTIRE body. This equates to 5 grams.

So there will not be a visual difference.

please prove this

[onlyme]

And you are seriously claiming to have degrees in molecular biology and chemics, yet you are not even able to understand the concepts behind osmosis and molarity (as witnessed on another thread).
You must have skipped the lectures in your first semester as this is basic stuff.....

It doesn't even appear he got a diploma in high school.  He yet to prove anything he says.  He is full of shit and is the master at cut & paste.  Other than that and working at Wendys he has nothing except gimmic accounts supporting him.  It has been proven.

[The Heckler]

It doesn't even appear he got a diploma in high school.  He yet to prove anything he says.  He is full of shit and is the master at cut & paste.  Other than that and working at Wendys he has nothing except gimmic accounts supporting him.  It has been proven.

Keith, your words are saturated with the bile of hatred.

Why?