Absolutely no one could have predicted this

[ribonucleic]

The FBI improperly and, in some cases, illegally used the USA Patriot Act to secretly obtain personal information about people in the United States, underreporting for three years how often it forced businesses to turn over customer data, a Justice Department audit concluded Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/national_security_letters

[240 is Back]

quick, neotaints, spring into action and defend this!

Tell us why breaking the law is a good thing!

[ieffinhatecardio]

I hate to use the same shock and indignation that I used when I found out that Gingrich was a lying hypocritical blowhard, but.


Shocking. I'm just shocked to find out that the FBI illegally used the Patriot Act. This is truly shocking.

BTW 240, neotaints is rather funny. Did you coin it or did you read it somewhere else?

[240 is Back]

Neotaint is all mine.  We have a few here, and they are very useful as a contrast to common sense.

[youandme]

Neotaint is all mine.  We have a few here, and they are very useful as a contrast to common sense.

Here, let me.

"Patriot act is for this country, it's patriotic"
"your not american if you don't support the patriot act"
"FBI is using it to find terrorists, we are at war"

[OzmO]

Here, let me.

"Patriot act is for this country, it's patriotic"
"your not american if you don't support the patriot act"
"FBI is using it to find terrorists, we are at war"

And if they are breaking the law in the process it is not good.

Means do not justify the ends when it comes to our rights as citizens.

they will have to find another way or change the law

[ieffinhatecardio]

Neotaint is all mine.  We have a few here, and they are very useful as a contrast to common sense.

Nice job coining the term. Mind if I use it?

[ribonucleic]

Here, let me.

"Patriot act is for this country, it's patriotic"
"your not american if you don't support the patriot act"
"FBI is using it to find terrorists, we are at war"

"If you're not guilty, what do you have to hide?"

Which is always followed in short order by...

"Show me your papers!"

[OzmO]

Neotaint is all mine.  We have a few here, and they are very useful as a contrast to common sense.

Everyone knows what a "taint" is right?

[240 is Back]

Everyone knows what a "taint" is right?

taint the front, and taint the back.

By all means, share the love and use the word whenever applicable.

To me, there is nothing more un-American than a group of people who will condone crime, when their party does it.  They will deny any faults of their own party.  They will call anything different from their (minority) party belief as un-American.

The only solace comes from the fact that deep down, they question it.  They know Bush is lying, they're not stupid.  They know pre-emptive war in Iraq was made on "iffy" grounds.  They are a religious group, suddenly realizing their far-right party faction contradicts the good that religions teach.

[OzmO]

taint the front, and taint the back.

By all means, share the love and use the word whenever applicable.

To me, there is nothing more un-American than a group of people who will condone crime, when their party does it.  They will deny any faults of their own party.  They will call anything different from their (minority) party belief as un-American.

The only solace comes from the fact that deep down, they question it.  They know Bush is lying, they're not stupid.  They know pre-emptive war in Iraq was made on "iffy" grounds.  They are a religious group, suddenly realizing their far-right party faction contradicts the good that religions teach.

Well said.

[Dos Equis]

You mean the FBI did it's own audit and blew the whistle on itself?  And they're trying to clean up their own mess?  Get out.  This is terrible news. 

 

[OzmO]

You mean the FBI did it's own audit and blew the whistle on itself?  And they're trying to clean up their own mess?  Get out.  This is terrible news. 

 

Do you really think they would admit something they did wrong unless they absolutely had to?   


Yes, it's so very prudent to admit your mistake and publicly embarrass yourself intentionally.

[Dos Equis]

Do you really think they would admit something they did wrong unless they absolutely had to?   

What difference does that make?  The fact is they did an internal audit and blew the whistle on their own operation.  This is a good thing.  Whomever broke the law needs to be held accountable and they need to fix whatever problems the audit uncovered. 

[ribonucleic]

You mean the FBI did it's own audit and blew the whistle on itself?

I know it was a moderately lengthy sentence - and as such probably overtaxed your attention span - but try reading it again. 

It was a Justice Department audit - not an FBI audit. Since the bureaucratic distinction between the two seems to have eluded you, let me put in simpler terms...

It's like a parent reviewing their college kid's credit card statement and finding that they broke the rules on what they were allowed to charge. This is not the same thing as the college kid "blowing the whistle on himself".

[OzmO]

What difference does that make?  The fact is they did an internal audit and blew the whistle on their own operation.  This is a good thing.  Whomever broke the law needs to be held accountable and they need to fix whatever problems the audit uncovered. 

   Exactly.

It makes a big difference.....  no one intentionally creates an embarrassing situation in politics without an underlying reason.

Don't confuse that with what people do.  People do stuff like this all the time because of a guilt complex or whatever.

[Dos Equis]

I know it was a moderately lengthy sentence - and as such probably overtaxed your attention span - but try reading it again. 

It was a Justice Department audit - not an FBI audit. Since the bureaucratic distinction between the two seems to have eluded you, let me put in simpler terms...

It's like a parent reviewing their college kid's credit card statement and finding that they broke the rules on what they were allowed to charge. This is not the same thing as the college kid "blowing the whistle on himself".

You're right.  My bad.  It was the Justice Department IG, not the FBI. 

[Dos Equis]

  Exactly.

It makes a big difference.....  no one intentionally creates an embarrassing situation in politics without an underlying reason.

Don't confuse that with what people do.  People do stuff like this all the time because of a guilt complex or whatever.

The fact they uncovered wrongdoing is a good thing.  The fact they're going to fix the problems is even better.  But I don't believe the sky is falling. 

I'm not surprised liberals are frothing at the mouth over this. 

[OzmO]

No, 

Don't get me wrong,  it's a good thing, but this kind of thing is what worries me when it comes to the need for a stronger security due to the terrorist threat.   Mis-uses of the law can lead to bad things even though it's for the right reasons.




I don;t think libs are or will be frothing at the mouth over this.  But it does showcase some of their concerns

[Dos Equis]

No, 

Don't get me wrong,  it's a good thing, but this kind of thing is what worries me when it comes to the need for a stronger security due to the terrorist threat.   Mis-uses of the law leads can to bad things even though it's for the right reasons.




I don;t think libs are or will be frothing at the mouth over this.  But it does showcase some of their concerns

I agree we have to keep a close watch over the enormous power we have given to the government.  I think we have plenty of safeguards in place:  various agencies (like the IG), Congress, the courts, the media, various private watchdog groups, the public.  Abuses will happen.  Anytime you give people power they eventually abuse it to some degree in one form or another.  I don't think we can completely prevent abuses.  But what I don't want to see is paranoia handcuff law enforcement and hamper their ability to fight not only local crime but the war on terror.     

[OzmO]

I agree we have to keep a close watch over the enormous power we have given to the government.  I think we have plenty of safeguards in place:  various agencies (like the IG), Congress, the courts, the media, various private watchdog groups, the public.  Abuses will happen.  Anytime you give people power they eventually abuse it to some degree in one form or another.  I don't think we can completely prevent abuses.  But what I don't want to see is paranoia handcuff law enforcement and hamper their ability to fight not only local crime but the war on terror.     

Very practical assertion 

If anything both sides, libs and cons, help to keep this balance.

[Dos Equis]

Very practical assertion 

If anything both sides, libs and cons, help to keep this balance.

Thanks.  I agree.

[BRUCE]

I agree we have to keep a close watch over the enormous power we have given to the government.  I think we have plenty of safeguards in place:  various agencies (like the IG), Congress, the courts, the media, various private watchdog groups, the public.  Abuses will happen.  Anytime you give people power they eventually abuse it to some degree in one form or another.  I don't think we can completely prevent abuses.  But what I don't want to see is paranoia handcuff law enforcement and hamper their ability to fight not only local crime but the war on terror.     

Is it any coincidence you gave the only intelligible comment in this thread?

[240 is Back]

Is it any coincidence you gave the only intelligible comment in this thread?

you're australian.  your president is my presiden't lap dog.  the man who rules your nation does what we tell him.  know your position. 

[BRUCE]

you're australian.  your president is my presiden't lap dog.  the man who rules your nation does what we tell him.  know your position. 

Pfft. Haha!  What a brilliantly pointless comment.

I love it when you act like you know the slightest bit about Australian politics.  Splendid.