ICE CREAMS and calorie is a calorie and Haha Apenis - all three threads merged.

[Relentless]

Gonna be interesting. What's your height, weight, and BF right now?

5'9'' 180-183 right now.  Body fat is already pretty low - not sure where I'll end up come the day of the show.  I think I might actually GAIN muscle when on the diet bc I'll be taking in a steady flow of protein over 6 meals a day; right now I am probably not getting enough protein into my diet.

[The True Adonis]

5'9'' 180-183 right now.  Body fat is already pretty low - not sure where I'll end up come the day of the show.  I think I might actually GAIN muscle when on the diet bc I'll be taking in a steady flow of protein over 6 meals a day; right now I am probably not getting enough protein into my diet.

I doubt you will gain anything.

[wavelength]

5'9'' 180-183 right now.  Body fat is already pretty low - not sure where I'll end up come the day of the show.  I think I might actually GAIN muscle when on the diet bc I'll be taking in a steady flow of protein over 6 meals a day; right now I am probably not getting enough protein into my diet.

I also was in that range when I was not held back by injuries. Will be interesting. Be sure to keep us updated!

[Relentless]

Oh trust me, I am sure I know more about the subject than you think- From Bobby Pandour and Professor Atilla at the turn of the century to Dennis Wolf and Roger Callendar in between them.

I know bodybuilding.  Especially the history of it and who makes up that sometimes illustrious history.

Good for you!

[Relentless]

I doubt you will gain anything.

I might not gain body weight, but I do see the potential to gain muscle.  I've done a lot of things wrong over the years and still maintained a good physique.  We'll see what happens.  I don't claim to know what will happen exactly.  I'm not overly concerned about weight - just a look that I'm pleased with and that will be competitive.

Once again, you're speaking out of turn TA.  You do not know anything about my training habits, my diet, or my genetics.  You are a negative sonofabitch who attempts to tear others down in a feeble effort to built yourself up.  Pathetic.

[PJim]

Great piece of advice here. Simple and effective.  I especially adore the final Sentence.  "Trim the fat and face the Facts".

You oughta make that your signature.

It's so true though, one of my closest friends at 5'9 got to 270 pounds and is in the process of dieting down. He is 220 pounds and still has a long way to go, I will tell you his final weight, which incidentally I believe will be no more than 190 pounds due to his superior structure. Look at Samir Bannout 1983, a DRUG ASSISTED physique and he weighed if my memory serves me correct between 185-195 pounds at 5'8. You don't get naturals bigger than that.

[chaos]

Once again, you're speaking out of turn TA.  You do not know anything about my training habits, my diet, or my genetics.  You are a negative sonofabitch who attempts to tear others down in a feeble effort to built yourself up.  Pathetic.

TA'S MO. He's an angry little guy.

[Relentless]

TA'S MO. He's an angry little guy.

I have a little bet to make with our friend TA.  The contest I will be competing in late April/early May will be drug and polygraph tested.  We'll conduct a little poll to see who looks better based off my comp pics and the loser will exit the board permanently. 

Care to see what happens, TA?

[The True Adonis]

I might not gain body weight, but I do see the potential to gain muscle.  I've done a lot of things wrong over the years and still maintained a good physique.  We'll see what happens.  I don't claim to know what will happen exactly.  I'm not overly concerned about weight - just a look that I'm pleased with and that will be competitive.

Once again, you're speaking out of turn TA.  You do not know anything about my training habits, my diet, or my genetics.  You are a negative sonofabitch who attempts to tear others down in a feeble effort to built yourself up.  Pathetic.

Where am I building myself up by saying you probably won`t gain any muscle on your way to dieting down?

Perhaps you mistake my cold realism for hubris?

[Relentless]

Where am I building myself up by saying you probably won`t gain any muscle on your way to dieting down?

Perhaps you mistake my cold realism for hubris?

It's a negative assumption. 

You don't have enough facts or knowledge of my habits, genetics, diet, training history, etc to make any sort of valid judgment. 

All signs to you being an extremely negative and angry person.

[PJim]

Where am I building myself up by saying you probably won`t gain any muscle on your way to dieting down?

Perhaps you mistake my cold realism for hubris?

To be fair, TA has a point, it is very unlikely that you will gain muscle dieting down due to being in a deficit of energy needed by cells to build up or become highly anabolic. You can easily maintain though. I believe in training less whilst dieting as the energy/nutrients are not at optimum, so as long as one stimulates their muscle mass often enough to maintain some small degree of anabolism to compensate for any catabolism then they should not have a problem.

[Relentless]

To be fair, TA has a point, it is very unlikely that you will gain muscle dieting down due to being in a deficit of energy needed by cells to build up or become highly anabolic. You can easily maintain though. I believe in training less whilst dieting as the energy/nutrients are not at optimum, so as long as one stimulates their muscle mass often enough to maintain some small degree of anabolism to compensate for any catabolism then they should not have a problem.

TA does raise good points on occasion; the only problem is that he claims absolutes in many instances.  Individual genetics play a huge factor in bodybuilding success/failure. 

There are people who grow on a diet.  Maybe not a whole lot of people, but it does happen.

[Hedgehog]

You don`t have enough protein in your diet to meet the .5 to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight requirement.  You are going to have to elminate some of those choices and replace them to meet that requirement.

Wait a minute.
In the past, you claimed that with your diet it is possible to eat whatever.
When asked if drinking beer only would be ok, you said that was fine as long as the calories were monitored.

You then said that high protein diets are a myth and that you ate cerca 50-60 grams of protein each day.

Now all of a sudden you recommend a healthy, balanced diet, with moderate amounts of protein.
A diet which most of us here probably would agree on.
Something doesn't add up.
Why not just admit you were wrong with the whole 'adonis diet project'.
How about instead trying to find a good use for the knowledge you must have been collecting over time on nutrition.
How about selling nutrition advices in your hometown to older people or start up with some little league team.
Cause you sure as hell ain't getting anywhere here with that old bullshit of yours.
Your new diet ideas seem dandy and all.
Only one problem though - it's not something new and if you try preaching basic healthy diet to people who already know about that shit..
You will have reactions.
So do a market analysis, find a target group and hook up 240 for a website.
You don't see Coach trying to tell everyone how to train, right?   

[PJim]

TA does raise good points on occasion; the only problem is that he claims absolutes in many instances.  Individual genetics play a huge factor in bodybuilding success/failure. 

There are people who grow on a diet.  Maybe not a whole lot of people, but it does happen.

I am willing to experiment with this theory. From past experiences at below or at maintenance calories I never really gained any appreciable weight that I could call muscle mass. But, I will give it a try. On my next cut, I shall try to gain whilst in condition with just under maintenance calories so that you could still technically call it a "diet".

[Relentless]

Wait a minute.
In the past, you claimed that with your diet it is possible to eat whatever.
When asked if drinking beer only would be ok, you said that was fine as long as the calories were monitored.

You then said that high protein diets are a myth and that you ate cerca 50-60 grams of protein each day.

Now all of a sudden you recommend a healthy, balanced diet, with moderate amounts of protein.
A diet which most of us here probably would agree on.
Something doesn't add up.
Why not just admit you were wrong with the whole 'adonis diet project'.
How about instead trying to find a good use for the knowledge you must have been collecting over time on nutrition.
How about selling nutrition advices in your hometown to older people or start up with some little league team.
Cause you sure as hell ain't getting anywhere here with that old bullshit of yours.
Your new diet ideas seem dandy and all.
Only one problem though - it's not something new and if you try preaching basic healthy diet to people who already know about that shit..
You will have reactions.
So do a market analysis, find a target group and hook up 240 for a website.
You don't see Coach trying to tell everyone how to train, right?   

Thanks for laying it all out!  This guy doesn't have a leg to stand on, does he?  

Get out of here Adonis...you're not wanted.  It's time for your negativity and lies to be extinguished.

[The True Adonis]

Wait a minute.
In the past, you claimed that with your diet it is possible to eat whatever.
When asked if drinking beer only would be ok, you said that was fine as long as the calories were monitored.

You then said that high protein diets are a myth and that you ate cerca 50-60 grams of protein each day.

Now all of a sudden you recommend a healthy, balanced diet, with moderate amounts of protein.
A diet which most of us here probably would agree on.
Something doesn't add up.
Why not just admit you were wrong with the whole 'adonis diet project'.
How about instead trying to find a good use for the knowledge you must have been collecting over time on nutrition.
How about selling nutrition advices in your hometown to older people or start up with some little league team.
Cause you sure as hell ain't getting anywhere here with that old bullshit of yours.
Your new diet ideas seem dandy and all.
Only one problem though - it's not something new and if you try preaching basic healthy diet to people who already know about that shit..
You will have reactions.
So do a market analysis, find a target group and hook up 240 for a website.
You don't see Coach trying to tell everyone how to train, right?   

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Who would drink just beer and only beer for nutrition?
Define High Protein.  I think .5 to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight is LOW PROTEIN when compared to the diets a lot of bodybuilders follow.

I think perhaps you lacked the comprehension skills to follow along early on.  I think also you probably have made a habit of parsing my words and taking them so out of context that in effect you have confused yourself.  My diet hasn`t changed at all, perhaps you have.

[Relentless]

I am willing to experiment with this theory. From past experiences at below or at maintenance calories I never really gained any appreciable weight that I could call muscle mass. But, I will give it a try. On my next cut, I shall try to gain whilst in condition with just under maintenance calories so that you could still technically call it a "diet".

I've spent a good deal of time at Dave Palumbo's thread at MD - it appears that quite a few people gain on his ketogenic diet because they have not been taking in enough healthy fats in their diet.  Check it out if you haven't already - it's in the "ask the pros" section.

[TacoBell]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Who would drink just beer and only beer for nutrition?
Define High Protein.  I think .5 to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight is LOW PROTEIN when compared to the diets a lot of bodybuilders follow.

I think perhaps you lacked the comprehension skills to follow along early on.  I think also you probably have made a habit of parsing my words and taking them so out of context that in effect you have confused yourself.  My diet hasn`t changed at all, perhaps you have.

Dude, you are backpeddling and you know it.  You have changed the framework for your theories( ) numerous times.

[Relentless]

TA, are you going to take me up on my challenge?  How confident are you?

I have a little bet to make with our friend TA.  The contest I will be competing in late April/early May will be drug and polygraph tested.  We'll conduct a little poll to see who looks better based off my comp pics and the loser will exit the board permanently.

Care to see what happens, TA?

[The True Adonis]

Wait a minute.
In the past, you claimed that with your diet it is possible to eat whatever.
When asked if drinking beer only would be ok, you said that was fine as long as the calories were monitored.

You then said that high protein diets are a myth and that you ate cerca 50-60 grams of protein each day.

Now all of a sudden you recommend a healthy, balanced diet, with moderate amounts of protein.
A diet which most of us here probably would agree on.
Something doesn't add up.
Why not just admit you were wrong with the whole 'adonis diet project'.
How about instead trying to find a good use for the knowledge you must have been collecting over time on nutrition.
How about selling nutrition advices in your hometown to older people or start up with some little league team.
Cause you sure as hell ain't getting anywhere here with that old bullshit of yours.
Your new diet ideas seem dandy and all.
Only one problem though - it's not something new and if you try preaching basic healthy diet to people who already know about that shit..
You will have reactions.
So do a market analysis, find a target group and hook up 240 for a website.
You don't see Coach trying to tell everyone how to train, right?   

Yah, come to think of it, thats what it was.  You used to love to take phrases of mine out of context.

You see, when you do that, the entire meaning of the post and thread are lost. Also, you used to mistake my facetiousness and sarcasm at times for a general recommendation.

Sarcasm, wit and satire do tend to get lost on many people.  You may be from a different country so that is understandable as the cultural norms, memes and translations may differ.

[Relentless]

Yah, come to think of it, thats what it was.  You used to love to take phrases of mine out of context.

You see, when you do that, the entire meaning of the post and thread are lost. Also, you used to mistake my facetiousness and sarcasm at times for a general recommendation.

Sarcasm, wit and satire do tend to get lost on many people.  You may be from a different country so that is understandable as the cultural norms, memes and translations may differ.

Your negativity and insults aren't lost on anyone.  It's very obvious to everyone here that you are a jerk who tries to impose his views on others. 

[The True Adonis]

Your negativity and insults aren't lost on anyone.  It's very obvious to everyone here that you are a jerk who tries to impose his views on others. 

I don`t care how you diet, what you do or how you get there. With that said, I am going to repost what I did earlier because I think it is apt to apply here:



Its like religion or religious people.  As soon as you question their faith and show them the mountain of evidence against their beliefs and notions, they view it as an attack on themselves.
Why? It is Because they have spent so much time vested in their methods and beliefs that for them to admit that there may be another way or that their way is not the only way or the correct way  basically tears the whole cloak of meaning from their body.

They surely do not want to come to terms with the prospect that the dogma and myths they regard so dearly as truth, despite all available evidence, is in fact based largely on folklore.  Rather than examine the evidence critically, you instead get a lashing out as they do not want their cloak of delusion ripped to shreds. To do this, would strip away thier own personal worth as they have believed and lived something for years and years.

Dogma is a bastard child of human behavior as we are evolutionary programmed pattern seekers and seek to repeat the same thing over and over out of fear.

Fear and Dogma when challenged become hate.

[Disgusted]

For the record my clients and my self including have made plenty of muscle gains on a lower carb diet. I have been doing it for years.

[Relentless]

For the record my clients and my self including have made plenty of muscle gains on a lower carb diet. I have been doing it for years.

Welcome back Jim!

[The True Adonis]

For the record my clients and my self including have made plenty of muscle gains on a lower carb diet. I have been doing it for years.

All diets work. This is true.  No clue why people don`t understand that.  Although I do prefer my brain to perform optimally with a higher carb approach.