Author Topic: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis  (Read 3820 times)

ManBearPig...

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RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« on: March 21, 2007, 08:22:52 PM »
in searching for how much food the true adonis is actually advocating, i came accross this article in wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recommended_Dietary_Allowance

The RDA was developed during World War II by Lydia J. Roberts, Hazel K. Stiebeling and Helen S. Mitchell under the auspices of the National Research Council. The National Research Council determined that a set of dietary standards were needed, especially given the possibility that rations would be needed during the war. The standards would be used for nutrition recommendations for the armed forces, for civilians, and for overseas population who might need food relief. Roberts, Stiebeling, and Mitchell surveyed all available data, created a tentative set of allowances, and submitted them to experts for review. The final set of allowances were accepted in 1941. The allowances were meant to provide superior nutrition for civilians and military personnel, so they included a "margin of safety."

couple questions for you:

since it was devised in 1941, don't you think in the last 66 years any nutritional advances have been made?

as i mentioned in the other thread, a.e. harper, m.d. one of the former chairmen of the rda committee said that the rda is off by as much as 20 times in some cases (as with vitamin C).

the guidelines were meant to devise a most efficient way to ration food, which would mean it would be the bare minimum  for survival in a time of war when resources were scarce.  since for most of us the goal is to have muscle and not just survive, don't you think we should fix up that RDA a little to help our goals?

thanks.
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Dr. D

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2007, 08:24:32 PM »
RDA is also controlled and manipulated by the Food Giants....

ManBearPig...

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2007, 08:26:09 PM »
RDA is also controlled and manipulated by the Food Giants....

got any links?

i'm not being a cock lord, i really want to see what's behind the RDA and why adonis thinks it's the end all be all diet for bodybuilders.
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Dr. D

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2007, 08:33:40 PM »
got any links?

i'm not being a cock lord, i really want to see what's behind the RDA and why adonis thinks it's the end all be all diet for bodybuilders.

I'll look for some...most the info is from books.
Here is a general link about the Food Pyramid/ RDI:

http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm

Dr. D

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2007, 08:38:17 PM »
Here you go:
http://www.whale.to/v/stitt_b1.html



"It is important to remember that the  body's hunger mechanism is affected by the presence of all nutrients, not just  calories. Caloric intake is only one part of good nutrition. Dieters especially are prone to the misconception that calories are all they need to count, so they fill their meager calorie allowances with foods that are high in processed carbohydrates and almost devoid of other essential nutrients, foods which can only aggravate their hunger, yet never give their bodies what they really need. At the same time, the empty calories they eat rob their bodies of what nutrients they have stored. This nutrient depletion can lead to lethargy, irritability and, in some severe cases, even psychosis."

ManBearPig...

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2007, 08:41:30 PM »
Here you go:
http://www.whale.to/v/stitt_b1.html



"It is important to remember that the  body's hunger mechanism is affected by the presence of all nutrients, not just  calories. Caloric intake is only one part of good nutrition. Dieters especially are prone to the misconception that calories are all they need to count, so they fill their meager calorie allowances with foods that are high in processed carbohydrates and almost devoid of other essential nutrients, foods which can only aggravate their hunger, yet never give their bodies what they really need. At the same time, the empty calories they eat rob their bodies of what nutrients they have stored. This nutrient depletion can lead to lethargy, irritability and, in some severe cases, even psychosis."

haha.  i just read the part from your first link about the eskimos who lived off fat and protein forever with zero carbs and when tested, had the same or better health results as vegetable eaters.
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MisterMagoo

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 08:43:01 PM »
Here you go:
http://www.whale.to/v/stitt_b1.html



"It is important to remember that the  body's hunger mechanism is affected by the presence of all nutrients, not just  calories. Caloric intake is only one part of good nutrition. Dieters especially are prone to the misconception that calories are all they need to count, so they fill their meager calorie allowances with foods that are high in processed carbohydrates and almost devoid of other essential nutrients, foods which can only aggravate their hunger, yet never give their bodies what they really need. At the same time, the empty calories they eat rob their bodies of what nutrients they have stored. This nutrient depletion can lead to lethargy, irritability and, in some severe cases, even psychosis."

i think we just discovered what's up with "team adonis"...

Dr. D

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 08:46:13 PM »
haha.  i just read the part from your first link about the eskimos who lived off fat and protein forever with zero carbs and when tested, had the same or better health results as vegetable eaters.


You need to read Dr. Price's Book: http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Andrew/dp/0879838167

It's all about Biochemical Individuality.....

Bast000

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 08:57:32 PM »
Any credible source that doesn't sell protein will recommend 50-100 grams.

NeverTrustABlonde

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 09:16:24 PM »
Any credible source that doesn't sell protein will recommend 50-100 grams.

depending on what you plan to accomplish....

Bast000

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2007, 09:18:49 PM »
depending on what you plan to accomplish....

well most sources will discuss athletes and bbs and say their requirements aren't much higher.  the ones i have seen.

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2007, 09:20:26 PM »
well most sources will discuss athletes and bbs and say their requirements aren't much higher.  the ones i have seen.

i dont have the energy to walk down the stairs, get my books, and then walk up the stairs again.... so i will finish this debate tomorrow...  ;)

The True Adonis

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 11:09:27 PM »
You have the wrong info.

The RDA and DRI has been continually updated.  Please visit http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=4&tax_level=2&tax_subject=256&topic_id=1342&placement_default=0

ManBearPig...

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2007, 11:11:09 PM »
You have the wrong info.

The RDA and DRI has been continually updated.  Please visit http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=4&tax_level=2&tax_subject=256&topic_id=1342&placement_default=0

alright, i'm gonna take a look at it.  i'll let you know if there's any follow up questions.
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Mr. Intenseone

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2007, 11:11:50 PM »
You have the wrong info.

The RDA and DRI has been continually updated.  Please visit http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=4&tax_level=2&tax_subject=256&topic_id=1342&placement_default=0

Considering it has nothing to do with bodybuilding :-\!

The True Adonis

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 11:12:44 PM »
Here are some more resources as well:

www.essentialnutrition.o rg which I have a personal affectation for  8)


and the homepage by the USDA:  http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=4&tax_level=1

ManBearPig...

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 11:13:46 PM »
Considering it has nothing to do with bodybuilding :-\!

Adonis?

How could the RDA be used in bodybuilding?
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The True Adonis

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2007, 11:14:08 PM »
Considering it has nothing to do with bodybuilding :-\!
Of course it does, since it has been proven that Bodybuilders do not require any special nutritional considerations beyond a sedentary individual even.  The RDA and DRI are great and apt guidelines.

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2007, 11:14:55 PM »
alright, i'm gonna take a look at it.  i'll let you know if there's any follow up questions.

http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/21/372/0.pdf

page 6 says recommended is 56 grams protein for adult males.   It's in the 40s for females because they have much less muscle.  So from that you can conclude that 75 grams would be more than enough for a man with a high requirement (bodybuilder), according to these numbers.

The True Adonis

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2007, 11:16:34 PM »
Adonis?

How could the RDA be used in bodybuilding?

The human does not need excess calories as protein synthesis funcitons just fine in a caloric deficit.  

Take note that All the Current LIFETIME NATURALS PRO`s for the most part operate out of a caloric deficit as they are under 8-6 percent bodyfat year round.

The RDA and DRI are useful guidelines to ensure optimal health.

hangclean

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 11:17:32 PM »
I cant understand why this is even being discussed when all the most in shape muscular athletes, bodybuilders and weight lifters in general all eat basically the same kind of diet.  Maybe Adoniss' diet could work, but why would people use this when there are tried and true methods already?

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 11:18:09 PM »
The human does not need excess calories as protein synthesis funcitons just fine in a caloric deficit.  

Take note that All the Current LIFETIME NATURALS PRO`s for the most part operate out of a caloric deficit as they are under 8-6 percent bodyfat year round.

The RDA and DRI are useful guidelines to ensure optimal health.

Dammit Adam, what part don't you understand?

The True Adonis

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 11:19:07 PM »
I cant understand why this is even being discussed when all the most in shape muscular athletes, bodybuilders and weight lifters in general all eat basically the same kind of diet.  Maybe Adoniss' diet could work, but why would people use this when there are tried and true methods already?
The only common element in any diet is energy expenditure.  Omnivores are especially efficient creatures.

ManBearPig...

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2007, 11:21:46 PM »
The human does not need excess calories as protein synthesis funcitons just fine in a caloric deficit. 

Take note that All the Current LIFETIME NATURALS PRO`s for the most part operate out of a caloric deficit as they are under 8-6 percent bodyfat year round.

The RDA and DRI are useful guidelines to ensure optimal health.

how big of a part does insulin play in fat loss/ muscle gain?  how much of an effect does a high carb/low carb diet have on insuling release/blockage?
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The True Adonis

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Re: RDA (RDI) explanation from wikipedia, attn: adonis
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2007, 11:29:50 PM »
how big of a part does insulin play in fat loss/ muscle gain?  how much of an effect does a high carb/low carb diet have on insuling release/blockage?

Hardly any at all.
The Skinny on the Glycemic Index
Although developed to help people with diabetes manage their food intake, the glycemic index has taken on new meaning as a weight loss strategy. In fact, several diet books tout the glycemic index as a foolproof way of identifying foods that raise blood sugar and insulin levels and therefore, can lead to weight gain.

But despite the hype, experts in nutrition and public health see very little practical use for the glycemic index and even the American Diabetes Association does not recommend this system for the prevention or treatment of diabetes. This is because of the many factors that affect the digestion of carbohydrates in the body. In fact, there is no clear evidence that avoiding foods high on the index is even beneficial.

The following describes what the glycemic index is and why the public health community does not recommend it in designing an eating plan.

The Glycemic Index and Its Limitations
Originally developed in 1981 as a laboratory tool to measure the rate at which carbohydrates are metabolized, the glycemic index is now being used by some as a measure of the degree to which a specific food raises a person's blood sugar, which in turn affects insulin levels in the body. GI is calculated by measuring the effect of 50 grams of carbohydrates from various foods against a "standard" response from 50 grams of glucose. The higher the number, the greater the food's effect on blood sugar.

The reason for all the interest in the index is because it supports the theory of "net carbs," which has facilitated the creation of the low-carb food industry and the launch of thousands of "low-carb" products. The theory is that high-GI foods cause a spike in the glucose level that prompts the body to release a flood of insulin. In turn, insulin drops blood sugar levels so that the person feels hungry again quickly and eats more. In contrast, low-GI foods are said to be digested more slowly and to release glucose more gradually.

But while many popular diet books make it sound as if the glycemic index is an accepted theory, in truth, there are very real problems with this system. First and foremost is the fact that the glycemic index deals with single foods eaten alone, not meals where foods are combined.

At the same time, this system does not take into account the serving size of commonly eaten foods or the fact that there can be major differences even when comparing foods of the same type, such as a relatively green banana compared with a ripe one. Another major limitation of the glycemic index is that it doesn't take into account the many factors that can alter the digestion and absorption of carbohydrates. These factors include the amount of fiber, fat and protein in the food, how refined the ingredients are, whether the food was cooked, and what other foods are eaten at the same time.

Along with these limitations, there is no clear-cut evidence in the scientific literature that associates low-GI foods as either promoting satiety or reducing hunger. Moreover, nutritionists state that eliminating all foods that are high on the glycemic index is unhealthy, since many of these carbohydrates are rich in vitamins and minerals, phytochemicals, antioxidants and dietary fiber that have been associated with a lower risk for certain cancers, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and stroke, among other medical conditions. What is even more troubling is that many foods that have a low GI score, such as chocolate bars, are known to be high in fat and calories, while foods such as carrots with a high GI score are not.

The Implications for People with Diabetes
Because the glycemic index was developed to measure how fast blood sugar rises after a person eats foods containing carbohydrates, it is important to note that the premier organization focusing on the prevention and treatment of diabetes -- the American Diabetes Association -- does not recommend the use of this system. In its January 2002 nutrition recommendations, ADA stated that the available studies where glycemic index was controlled "do not provide convincing evidence of a benefit."1 In addition, ADA's statement said that the research examining the index is very limited and involves only a small number of study groups. Therefore, ADA concluded, "the data reveal no clear trend in outcome benefits."

Rather, the ADA along with all the leading nutrition and public health groups recommend that for optimal health as well as weight loss, people should consume a diet that includes a variety of carbohydrate-containing foods, and especially fruits, vegetables, whole grains and low-fat dairy products. Moreover, nutrition authorities are unanimous in stating that for weight loss, calories count, not the glycemic index. Although it may sound old-fashioned, the simple fact is that the key to successful weight loss is a combination of a reduced-calorie diet and increased physical activity -- nothing more.