Who thinks military condones immoral behavior?

[Dos Equis]

What about cover ups?

Do you believe the military, has in the past, attempted to cover things up that might potentially harm them PR-wise?

They just did in the Pat Tillman matter.  They aren't the first, or the last, to try and cover up bad PR. 

[OzmO]

What organization wouldn't?  They have public affairs officers who are just like publicists.  Nothing wrong with damage control, so long as they aren't being dishonest. 

Is covering up an incident or partially revealing facts dishonest in your opinion?

[Dos Equis]

Is covering up an incident or partially revealing facts dishonest in your opinion?

As I tell my kids, a half truth is a lie. 

I'm not sure why the officers mishandled matters in the Pat Tillman matter.  Maybe they were trying to protect the family?  Maybe they were just covering their own okoles?  Maybe they thought the mission would be compromised?  Don't know. 

[OzmO]

As I tell my kids, a half truth is a lie. 

I'm not sure why the officers mishandled matters in the Pat Tillman matter.  Maybe they were trying to protect the family?  Maybe they were just covering their own okoles?  Maybe they thought the mission would be compromised?  Don't know. 

But as you said they aren't the first or last.

They just did in the Pat Tillman matter.  They aren't the first, or the last, to try and cover up bad PR. 

So is covering up immoral? 

I tend to put it in it's proper perspective:  damage control.

But i wouldn't allow with my children.


hmmmmm 

[Dos Equis]

But as you said they aren't the first or last.

So is covering up immoral? 

I tend to put it in it's proper perspective:  damage control.

But i wouldn't allow with my children.


hmmmmm 

Is "damage control" immoral?  No.  Is lying to avoid exposing your own mistakes at the expense of giving a family the truth immoral?  Yes. 

[OzmO]

Is "damage control" immoral?  No.  Is lying to avoid exposing your own mistakes at the expense of giving a family the truth immoral?  Yes. 

so you are saying covering up is immoral?

[Dos Equis]

so you are saying covering up is immoral?

No.  Depends on what the cover up is.  I just gave you one example.  What is your point?  I feel like I'm being cross-examined.   

[Tre]

It's a dumb question because it has nothing to do with whether the military justice system is highly efficient. 

It's 'efficient' because most of the defendants are convicted without due process. 

And I'm not talking only about high profile courts-martial, I'm talking about every level of so-called military 'justice'.

It's laughable, at best, and for you to defend it as anything other than that certainly compromises your credibility on this topic.

[Tre]

Nothing wrong with damage control, so long as they aren't being dishonest. 

But what about the fact that so much of what they say is dishonest?

Doesn't it bother you at all that military leaders can lie so easily and with such conviction?

[Dos Equis]

It's 'efficient' because most of the defendants are convicted without due process. 

And I'm not talking only about high profile courts-martial, I'm talking about every level of so-called military 'justice'.

It's laughable, at best, and for you to defend it as anything other than that certainly compromises your credibility.

lol (yes I'm laughing).  So I cannot defend the military justice system without compromising my credibility?  Who are you, 240?   

I don't have a problem defending the military justice system.  For you to say "most of the defendants are convicted without due process" is actually laughable.  So, you're saying most defendants don't: (a) have a trial, (b) have a judge, (c) get tried by a jury or judge alone at the defendant's option, (c) have a military-appointed defense attorney, and (d) have a right of appeal to at least two appellate courts?  Oh, and that the CG doesn't have the right to commute a sentence handed down by the court?  (At least that's my recollection.)  Sounds like due process to me. 

It just happens a lot faster than the civilian side. 

[Dos Equis]

But what about the fact that so much of what they say is dishonest?

Doesn't it bother you at all that military leaders can lie so easily and with such conviction?

I don't have any basis to conclude that "much of what they say is dishonest."  How do you reach that conclusion? 

[Tre]

I don't have any basis to conclude that "much of what they say is dishonest."  How do you reach that conclusion? 

Four years active duty.   

[Dos Equis]

Four years active duty.   

O.K.  I have four years of active duty too.  I have a different opinion.     You’re not smarting over an Article 15 are you?   

[headhuntersix]

Perhaps he is..the UCMJ is pretty cut and dry...NJP is a whole other matter. If Tre got bounced, and I've seen plenty good folks get bounced I'd like to hear his story.   On the Tilman thing......I'll PM u beach but..they friggen blew it..no question about it. No excuese at all. I feel bad for the family.

[OzmO]

Perhaps he is..the UCMJ is pretty cut and dry...NJP is a whole other matter. If Tre got bounced, and I've seen plenty good folks get bounced I'd like to hear his story.   On the Tilman thing......I'll PM u beach but..they friggen blew it..no question about it. No excuese at all. I feel bad for the family.

So the military lied? 


Was what they did immoral?

[Dos Equis]

So the military lied? 


Was what they did immoral?

Not at all.  Some of the officers screwed up.  The IG smoked them out and recommended punishment.  So some individuals made a mistake, but the Army is holding them accountable. 

[militarymuscle69]

Four years active duty.   

4 years?? LMAO!!! In my first 4 years I thought I knew all about the military to, you don't see what it is all about until you make it to the top...talk about lacking credibility!!!