whats a good lean mass builder cycle?

[Trev.D]

i was thinking primabolin, deca and some type of test any opinions???

[strength]

test 500-750mgs a week.  12-14 weeks. 

that is all youll need my brotha.  clean diet, maybe some cardio.

sounds like it will be your first cycle?

proper pct to follow

[Captain Equipoise]

I would definetly stay away from Test E, way too much water and bloat..  for really lean mass..

maybe Sust or just Prop, with some EQ or Winstrol..

[TheSnow6666]

Test works differently with everyone, as do all the drugs.  The only difference I see in my body when doing Test Prop instead of Enanthate is that prop gives me more pain.  I don't get the bloat that I always read about.  But I also don't get Tren cough, and I can still sleep fine even though right now I'm doing 700mg of Tren Acetate a week.

I personally like Enanthate simply because I get the best gains from it and it's a once a week shot.  Cyp is my number 2.  For a new comer, I would stay away from Sustanon simply because it's an EOD injection and it takes time to get used to.  I'd keep it simple and go with Test E or C, and Deca simply because they are once a week shots.  Winstrol/Prop would obviously be the best combo except your sticking yourself every day, which a newcomer won't like to much.

In terms of dosing I'd do 500mg of Test E or C, with double your weight in Deca (200 lbs is 400mg a week).  Thats a big kick for a newcomer and 20 pounds of muscle over 12 weeks

[krazee]

I would definetly stay away from Test E, way too much water and bloat..  for really lean mass..

maybe Sust or just Prop, with some EQ or Winstrol..

Follow this and you should be golden, don't forget to watch your diet as well.

[Overload]

Test and a good diet.

I can't tell a single difference between Sust, Cyp or Enath.

Prop does seem to keep me tight.

[Rimbaud]

I would definetly stay away from Test E, way too much water and bloat..   for really lean mass..

maybe Sust or just Prop, with some EQ or Winstrol..

I think too many people mistake water & bloating for being fat (i.e. not lean gains). Because when you stop your cycle or take the right ancillaries it goes away.

[Overload]

I think too many people mistake water & bloating for being fat (i.e. not lean gains). Because when you stop your cycle or take the right ancillaries it goes away.

True.

I find that diet determines the amount of bloat i get on ANY test.

I've switched from Sust to Cyp mid cycle and noticed absolutely nothing.

[Rimbaud]

I find that diet determines the amount of bloat i get on ANY test.

Good point. This time around I didn't increase my calories like crazy & ate pretty "normal" & I experienced very little bloating.

[Luv2Hurt]

I think too many people mistake water & bloating for being fat (i.e. not lean gains). Because when you stop your cycle or take the right ancillaries it goes away.

I think too many people try and blame the drugs for "water and bloating", when in fact they are just fat.

[JP]

500mg/wk test E or Cyp, then PCT. Clean diet.

[strength]

Good point. This time around I didn't increase my calories like crazy & ate pretty "normal" & I experienced very little bloating.

same experience here.  When i could afford to take in 300-350 grams of protein a day, while on,  all i got was fatter and more bloated.  I don't strive for pure mass anymore.  15 solid keepable pounds is IMO, more successful that 25-30 pounds and being loaded with water and fat.  I have done it both ways and simply eating normal and adding perhaps an extra 50-75 grams of protein is all i need to get the gains i desire

[Rimbaud]

I think too many people try and blame the drugs for "water and bloating", when in fact they are just fat.

This is also true.

[aleksis]

Good diet + (EQ,Anavar, prop)   U will love it

[Captain Equipoise]

This is also true.

That still doesn't change the fact that long esters like Enanthate and Cypionate have a tendency to retain more water and bloat then short esters like Prop or Sust.



If you don't believe me, it's all over the literature on testosterone, go to any decent site, they will tell you the same..
shit, why do you think competing bb'ers shoot prop in the last 8 weeks and not enanthate ?

[Overload]

That still doesn't change the fact that long esters like Enanthate and Cypionate have a tendency to retain more water and bloat then short esters like Prop or Sust.



If you don't believe me, it's all over the literature on testosterone, go to any decent site, they will tell you the same..
shit, why do you think competing bb'ers shoot prop in the last 8 weeks and not enanthate ?

Sust has the longest esters available and the longest half life of any test. the SMALL amount of prop in it does not allow the longer esters to prevent bloat in some magical way.

show me a test level study to back up what you say about sust...it doesn't exist.

Sust does not cause less water retention than E or C.

Prop ALONE however, does cause less because it has such a short half life.

[Rimbaud]

That still doesn't change the fact that long esters like Enanthate and Cypionate have a tendency to retain more water and bloat then short esters like Prop or Sust.



If you don't believe me, it's all over the literature on testosterone, go to any decent site, they will tell you the same..
shit, why do you think competing bb'ers shoot prop in the last 8 weeks and not enanthate ?

I'm not saying that I don't believe you. I've read plenty of literature & I know some esters are more prone to water retention then others. I simply said I think/believe it also depends on other factors as well (i.e. diet, ancillaries, genetics). For example the only place I seem to get bloated in my face. I've known others who take test & swell up.