Magoo, The SQUAD will destroy their enemies ONE BY ONE

[Count Grishnackh]

Immortal and the legendary Abbath, a SQUAD ally for centuries past

[Count Grishnackh]

and the conquered SLAVES SHALL SERVE their conquerors !! 

[MisterMagoo]

the first time i heard immortal was Sons of Northern Darkness, specifically "tyrants".

i would have never believed that these guys were only three people based on that track. not a million years. excellent pick with behemoth, too. demigod is heavily featured on my ipod when i lift.

what do you think of dimmu borgir? seems to be a rift between people who think they're the greatest thing ever and people who think they're just posers taking the cradle of filth orchestral theatrics way too far.

[UK Gold]

Dimmu are a great band - don't be put off by the 'true' brigade! [although for a blast of the underground check out Crebain]

CG, whats your favourite Burzum album? After much musing i've decided its Filofsem [or however its spelt]. I can sink into that album like no other. I read that when hes released he intends to make music in the same vein.

[MisterMagoo]

i can't listen to "pure" black metal for the life of me. i picked up a burzum CD and it sounded like a friend was playing it for me through the phone. i forget which it was, but the recording quality was awful, and an amazon reviewer said it was great that it was recorded just with an analog 4 track.

i need serious studio quality or it takes away from the experience, personally. 

[ButtonMan]

the first time i heard immortal was Sons of Northern Darkness, specifically "tyrants".

i would have never believed that these guys were only three people based on that track. not a million years. excellent pick with behemoth, too. demigod is heavily featured on my ipod when i lift.

what do you think of dimmu borgir? seems to be a rift between people who think they're the greatest thing ever and people who think they're just posers taking the cradle of filth orchestral theatrics way too far.

Let's just say if you were there from the beginning that Dimmu Borgir is for the people who want to be "involved" with black metal but be jolly and peacefull at the same time .............. it's like Jean Michel Jarre with some guitars mixed in : Tranny Metal

[MisterMagoo]

Let's just say if you were there from the beginning that Dimmu Borgir is for the people who want to be "involved" with black metal but be jolly and peacefull at the same time .............. it's like Jean Michel Jarre with some guitars mixed in : Tranny Metal

thing is, puritanical euphoric misanthropia is a badass CD. two of my favorite tracks in the genre (call it whatever you want) are hybrid stigmata and the ultra headbanger puritania. i realize that they aren't down in the depths a la emperor or what have you, but hey

[ButtonMan]

thing is, puritanical euphoric misanthropia is a badass CD. two of my favorite tracks in the genre (call it whatever you want) are hybrid stigmata and the ultra headbanger puritania. i realize that they aren't down in the depths a la emperor or what have you, but hey

I'm not putting down your choice of music but black metal wasn't created to be overproduced. So it's better to categorize them under symphonic metal or something like that .......

As for Emperor, they haven't been underground since their self proclaimed "black metal art" in 93/94

[UK Gold]

Let's just say if you were there from the beginning that Dimmu Borgir is for the people who want to be "involved" with black metal but be jolly and peacefull at the same time .............. it's like Jean Michel Jarre with some guitars mixed in : Tranny Metal

And i suppose you're a creature of hate that burns down churchs and kills people

Emperor turned into a shit prog band, Darkthrone into a shit punk band, Mayhem into a shit 'electronica' band [although they redeemed themselves with Chimera - and the new stuff sounds great], Satyricaon into a bland 'by the numbers' heavy metal band, and Immortal into a pretty good thrash band. At least dimmu have never wavered from black metal, and they get better and better with every album.

Magoo, buy the cult of armageddon for a brillaintly produced, interesting BM album. Also check out an album called generator by Aborym. Its industrial BM with a crystal clear production that is great for training or parties.

[ButtonMan]

And i suppose you're a creature of hate that burns down churchs and kills people

Emperor turned into a shit prog band, Darkthrone into a shit punk band, Mayhem into a shit 'electronica' band [although they redeemed themselves with Chimera - and the new stuff sounds great], Satyricaon into a bland 'by the numbers' heavy metal band, and Immortal into a pretty good thrash band. At least dimmu have never wavered from black metal, and they get better and better with every album.

Magoo, buy the cult of armageddon for a brillaintly produced, interesting BM album. Also check out an album called generator by Aborym. Its industrial BM with a crystal clear production that is great for training or parties.

Read again Mr "I like it up my ass, slow deep and hard"

Just like with every type of music people add things to it, that's fine but then give it a different name.

You're right about Emperor, Darkthrone and Mayhem  ............. they suck now

If you want purity go for Beherit, Blasphemy, Profanatica, Conqueror ............

[MisterMagoo]

I'm not putting down your choice of music but black metal wasn't created to be overproduced. So it's better to categorize them under symphonic metal or something like that .......

As for Emperor, they haven't been underground since their self proclaimed "black metal art" in 93/94

i think that's just it. i don't like "black metal", but i also don't think "symphonic metal" is quite right either, since dimmu or cradle have an edge to them that isn't found in tristania or similar groups.

but yeah, i'd way rather listen to cradle of filth (midian, baby) than burzum or real black metal. immortal being an exception, if they count.

[UK Gold]

Do you think if Ishan could have used an orchestra instead of tinny synths in the early days he would have turned it down? All those bands got to fulfill their visions once they got a bit of money - which in most cases was a shame as they lost what made them special. Maybe soon Beherit will have the Czech national orchestra playing with them

Also YOU have to admit what made BM special in the early days was the exclusivity. I fucking hate it when i see kids walking around wearing Darkthrone or Mayhem t shirts - buts that because i was there at the start, and its like they've discovered one of my secrets.

[UK Gold]

i think that's just it. i don't like "black metal", but i also don't think "symphonic metal" is quite right either, since dimmu or cradle have an edge to them that isn't found in tristania or similar groups.

but yeah, i'd way rather listen to cradle of filth (midian, baby) than burzum or real black metal. immortal being an exception, if they count.

Cradle of filth!!!!!!!! Ha ha ha!!!!!! Damn, i wouldn't even call them metal. They're a travelling pantomine!!!!!

[MisterMagoo]

make up your mind, man! either they would have used the full orchestra if they could have or it's a bad thing that they're using orchestras.

anyway, i think the problem with those kids is they don't really listen to the music. they just buy the shirts because they have names on them like "mayhem" and "morbid angel". you ask them to name any songs and you'll get a blank stare. exclusivity is only a good thing if the music is good, but it isn't as good then, at least not the recordings. it was limited by a budget that, a-duh, was determined by sales.

if it were possible for a wholly underground band to produce top-notch quality music without sacrificing a single note to the whims of the public or a label, that would be badass, but so far i'm unaware of such a group. at least one that makes music i like.

Cradle of filth!!!!!!!! Ha ha ha!!!!!! Damn, i wouldn't even call them metal. They're a travelling pantomine!!!!!

see that's what i mean. i don't give a shit what you call it, saffron's curse and cthulu dawn are great songs. hell, the entire midian CD is fantastic. i even liked some of nymphetamine, and from the cradle to enslave is obviously a classic. i'm also curious how they could be a pantomime, maybe you meant another word?

[UK Gold]

In England a pantomine is a type of insanely camp theatre show that kids go to see at Christmas. I don't know the american equivalent, or if there is one.

I like the use of orchestras, if its done properly, and not for the sake of doing so.

[ButtonMan]

Do you think if Ishan could have used an orchestra instead of tinny synths in the early days he would have turned it down? All those bands got to fulfill their visions once they got a bit of money - which in most cases was a shame as they lost what made them special. Maybe soon Beherit will have the Czech national orchestra playing with them

Also YOU have to admit what made BM special in the early days was the exclusivity. I fucking hate it when i see kids walking around wearing Darkthrone or Mayhem t shirts - buts that because i was there at the start, and its like they've discovered one of my secrets.

In the early days Ihsan was called Ygg and their debut demo still stands as a house. These kids today also think the second wave started with the Norwegian bands wich is complete bullshit. Even back then Blasphemy, Beherit, Profanatica were all put down, but they were pure and original. Later came the synth bands and that's when it became mainstream or better said the end of an era.

Fvck it, it's been dead since 1995 .............

[UK Gold]

Do you think if Ishan could have used an orchestra instead of tinny synths in the early days he would have turned it down?

This was rhtorical question Magoo. Ishan has stated many times he wished he could have used one. I'm glad he didn't, as 'in the nightside eclipse' is a perfect album - tinny synths and all.

[MisterMagoo]

This was rhtorical question Magoo. Ishan has stated many times he wished he could have used one. I'm glad he didn't, as 'in the nightside eclipse' is a perfect album - tinny synths and all.

but that's the thing. you're happy that the artist was incapable of creating what he wanted to. that seems severely counterintuitive to me.

that and i just heavily dislike tinny sounds. if it sounds like it's coming out of an answering machine i'm not gonna listen to it. i'd rather put in a limp bizkit disc than listen to that shit.

[UK Gold]

'ButtonMan', whats your favourite BM album? For me its between A blaze in the northern sky, or de mysteriss dom sathanas. Probably blaze edges it, as the atmosphere is truly bleak and without mercy. The first time i heard it i couldn't believe how 'thick' it sounded. Blew the shit out of Morbid Angel, my idols at the time!

[ButtonMan]

'ButtonMan', whats your favourite BM album? For me its between A blaze in the northern sky, or de mysteriss dom sathanas. Probably blaze edges it, as the atmosphere is truly bleak and without mercy. The first time i heard it i couldn't believe how 'thick' it sounded. Blew the shit out of Morbid Angel, my idols at the time!

Good question, but I don't have one particular album/7"/demo rated as best

A short list;

# Profanatica  - Tormenting Holy Flesh
# Von              - Satanic Blood
# Beherit         - Oath of Black Blood
#Conqueror     - Hammer of Antichrist- History of Annihilation
# Sodom         - In the Sign of Evil / Obsessed by Cruelty

And a ton more but the list will be too long

Early Morbid Angel was sick, I think I saw them in 90 or 91.

[UK Gold]

Obsessed by Cruelty is awesome!

I've got a morbid angel tattoo - got a friend to do it when i was 14, ha ha! I still think Alters of Madness is an unbeatable combo of stellar musicianship, aggression and SPEED! I bought the picture disc from my local market for 50p, which is about a quarter of a dollar. When i put it on my turntable for the first time i thought it was warped - but then i realised it was meant to sound like that! Those were the days, when everything seemed exciting and new. Now its all 'my chemical romance' and 'evanescance'. [magoo probably like them]

[Count Grishnackh]

I agree with Magoo in that I'm not a big fan of the "under-produced" raw european sound of black metal.

I understand that is the way it is intended to be. Being a musician however, my ear needs a bit more to listen to. Not that I wouldn't love to be thrashing alongside some of these bands. I like a heavy, clear, punishing sound to anything I listen to. This is what I break it down to:

The Europeans capture the true essence of the music and the atmosphere. They GET IT. They understand it's 4 minutes of fiction (in most cases) per track, 45 minutes of fiction per live event, they love the theatrics of looking like a death/black metal band.

The Americans don't have that depth to the genre, but the Americans produce the most punishing sound that you can lay down, but they became too self aware of the theatrics, ditched the stage dress for jeans and t-shirts etc..

I would prefer a mix of the 2, which is what some of the bigger bands (Cradle, Dimmu) are trying to do, but it's a fine line to walk. I can pick a few songs from all of the artists that I really get into. I think One by One is a devastating song, even with the underproduction.

[Count Grishnackh]

Burzum was the perfect attitude and the actual music was solid, Varg is definitely "there" as a musician. His whole style is perfect for black metal. Perhaps
he's changed a bit in his overall attitude being locked up, but we'll see in a
couple of years.

If he can get a good ensemble put together when he is released he will become a force, even a dominant force again in black metal, no doubt. Gotta love the back of his record jackets, with his picture and "Count Grishnackh" underneath it. I love that mindset, classic, great stuff !!

Here's a good vid of a rehearsal, Varg is in it, playing bass on the left, kind of obscured in shadows, but it's him. You can see how it's easy to get into the mindset of these bands, rehearsing in a cabin out in the middle of some Norwegian forest or wherever the hell they are.   

[Havenbull]

Obsessed by Cruelty is awesome!

I've got a morbid angel tattoo - got a friend to do it when i was 14, ha ha! I still think Alters of Madness is an unbeatable combo of stellar musicianship, aggression and SPEED! I bought the picture disc from my local market for 50p, which is about a quarter of a dollar. When i put it on my turntable for the first time i thought it was warped - but then i realised it was meant to sound like that! Those were the days, when everything seemed exciting and new. Now its all 'my chemical romance' and 'evanescance'. [magoo probably like them]

Blessed are the Sick was there best album IMO. 

Obiturary was non stop punishing.  I couldn't "not" headbang when they were in my walkman back in the day

Morgoth was a great band as well

[Count Grishnackh]

Blessed are the Sick was there best album IMO. 

Definitely a classic for all time Bull !!  Fall From Grace, Day of Suffering, Thy Kingdom Come crushing to this day