Newt Gingrich says Spanish a 'ghetto' language

[Tre]

CA and AZ have way too many immigrants fucking up test scores because they don't learn the language.  CA is fucking low on education because of it and AZ is last in education due to this issue. 

 

Guess again.

I can only assume that you were 'educated' in one of those two states.   

[Cap]

Guess again.

I can only assume that you were 'educated' in one of those two states.   

Listen dude, how is it that states like NJ without a high Mexican population are number 3 in the nation?  Hmmmm....I wonder.  Go see the cardiologist....I think you're down a couple quarts.  If you can't see the reality of this then you truly are a moron. 

[24KT]

That being said, Newt should've learned by now that America was built by residents of our 'ghettos'.

I do not support bilingual education initiatives, however.  It would be a mistake to cater to our Spanish-speaking population in that way.  It would be UNAMERICAN, and people come from all over the world to become Americans.  We need bilingual instructors, but only for the purpose of bridging the communication gap. 

English only on the ballots.  English only on the money.  English only on the highways. 

Tre
I understand your sentiments. I wasn't considering "bi-lingual education" per se, simply initiatives to bridge the communication gap, ...but now that you mention it, ...I think bi-lingual education might be a very good thing for Americans. Especially when you consider the Superhighway that is about to occur bridging the North American continent. Let me ask you... who do you think will benefit... and who do you think will be disadvantaged by such a scenario? When companies span the continent, do you not think it would be those conversant in all the languages of that continent that will be running things?  That means... unless native born Americans (and no I am neither now, nor have I ever been referring to native aboriginal Americans) are able to communicate in all the languages of that continent, they will not rise past the new "tongue" ceiling.  Take a lesson from Canada. We went through it with Francophone / Anglophone / bi-lingual speakers, and the bilinguals won out most every time. There are serious economic benefits to a nation that has a large percentage of their population fluent in other languages. Off the top of my head, the Quebec film industry comes to mind. Did you know that the province of Quebec is the largest exporter of French language media ...IN THE WORLD? They produce more than France itself, ...and please... no French jokes ...it's pretty stale at this point, ...but seriously. Now consider the size of the hispanic population... not just in America, ...but on the PLANET. You speak of American ingenuity... well consider what American ingenuity, fluent in Spanish could produce and export to Mexico, Spain, Argentina, Bolivia, Colombia, Venezuela, Chilé etc., etc., etc.,

And as for highway signs in ENGLISH ONLY... I think such a policy is just plain myopic if not stupid.

The entire world uses easily understandable and recognizeable symbols for good reason.

Cars most often travel upwards of 80 - 100 kms /per hr. The last thing anyone needs is someone making a stupid move because they didn't understand the written words on the road signs. People behind the wheel of a car should not have to rack their brains trying to figure out what a sign says. Better they be able to merely glance at it and have the image compute in an instant, so they can focus their attention on the task at hand, ...namely the safe operation of that vehicle. What's wrong with a highway sign that shows a pic of a gas pump, or a pic of a dinner plate with knife & fork? Those are universal symbols understood by most people from most countries. I'm sure you'd agree the last thing you want is some tourist veering across 3 lanes of traffic, possibly cutting you off or crashing into you, or causing you to ignite a multi-car pile up with vehicle after vehicle rear-ending you while he drives away, ...because he all of a sudden he realized he was about to miss his exit. He drives away oblivious to the havoc he has just wreaked because he's trying to figure out the next road sign.

My cousins on my mom's side had a bilingual education of sorts. From grades 2 - 5 they were in French immersion. Which meant they were educated solely in French. Every subject in school, was taught to them in the French language. Today, they are fluent in both English & French, as well German & Swedish. The older one is also fluent in Croatian as well. Despite his marketable skills, without his many language abilities, he would never have been able to move to Croatia and start a business there with his fiancé... a business that was all the more opportune because of the additional language skills they had.

Do you really want American children to be disadvantaged in the years to come? As a nation, you really should consider bi-lingual education as a sound investment in America's future. The rest of the world has already come to this realization, and have been investing in the future of their children by affording them the tools with which to navigate a global economy with greater ease. Don't do it for illegal immigrants, do it for native born American children.

[24KT]

native born americans relegate themselves to McJobs. Ever been to a reservation and see the way 90% of them just soak up the money handed to them with no inclination of improving themselves?

  I was referring to native born Americans, not native Aboriginal Americans.

...but since you bring them up, ..yes I've seen the way these guys on the reservation soak up the money handed to them. I've also seen guys like Trump, Chuck Norris & Steve Wynn follow their example too. Can't say I blame them.

If I had a few hundred million/ yr coming in from a casino, ...I'm sure my personal development efforts might slide a bit too.

[24KT]

That has far more to do with political correctness. It seems that even though these people wont learn english others will always stick up for them and lable anyone who's critical as a "racist". I was in a coffeeshop the other day and this one spanish ladys was pointing to what she wanted and the guy on the cash register kept telling her to just read out the label, which she couldn't do and she kept on pointing and speaking spanish even when the guy told her "no hablo espanol!" 

So what you're saying is that the guy in the coffee shop was blind... or just simply an ignorant jerk?


Wow, that coffeeshop owner must be an idiot to hire a blind man to work the cash register, ...especially with your money being all one colour. He must lose a ton of money all day... what with the guy always giving back incorrect change.

The mildly visually impaired in Canada and in most countries around the world don't have as difficult a time with currency. Our money comes in different colours... so even if you can't make out the fine print, the colour of the bill will let you know what denomination it is. Imagine that... a society that actually empowers the challenged to fully partake in, integrate in, and contribute to society rather than be a drain on, or burden to it. What a concept! 

[Tre]

Listen dude, how is it that states like NJ without a high Mexican population are number 3 in the nation?  Hmmmm....I wonder.  Go see the cardiologist....I think you're down a couple quarts.  If you can't see the reality of this then you truly are a moron. 

Where were you educated?

The reason NJ ranks so much higher than CA is that a higher percentage of the residents of NJ actually care about public education.  It has absolutely nothing at all to do with the 'Mexican population'.  The fact of the matter is that people in CA just don't care about education, which is why so many of the kids here are so stupid.

And don't even get me started on the lack of common sense among Californians...


(of course, since I married one, I can't be all that bright either!)

[Cap]

Where were you educated?

The reason NJ ranks so much higher than CA is that a higher percentage of the residents of NJ actually care about public education.  It has absolutely nothing at all to do with the 'Mexican population'.  The fact of the matter is that people in CA just don't care about education, which is why so many of the kids here are so stupid.

And don't even get me started on the lack of common sense among Californians...


(of course, since I married one, I can't be all that bright either!)

CA public education is funded by taxes.  More of our taxes go to illegals than the Northeast, which has a significantly less amount of that population.  I don't think you can argue that.  NJ has shitty areas liek Camden and Trenton with lower class and less educated people and they are still really high on the list.  Compare that to CA, esp SO Cal, which has extremely well off to high class areas and test scores get driven down, just like AZ.  I know plenty of education majors working in the AZ school system as interns and this is direct info from their professors and intern teachers.  There is a direct link IMO.

[Cap]

Tre
I understand your sentiments. I wasn't considering "bi-lingual education" per se, simply initiatives to bridge the communication gap, ...but now that you mention it, ...I think bi-lingual education might be a very good thing for Americans. Especially when you consider the Superhighway that is about to occur bridging the North American continent. Let me ask you... who do you think will benefit... and who do you think will be disadvantaged by such a scenario? When companies span the continent, do you not think it would be those conversant in all the languages of that continent that will be running things?  That means... unless native born Americans (and no I am neither now, nor have I ever been referring to native aboriginal Americans) are able to communicate in all the languages of that continent, they will not rise past the new "tongue" ceiling.  Take a lesson from Canada. We went through it with Francophone / Anglophone / bi-lingual speakers, and the bilinguals won out most every time. There are serious economic benefits to a nation that has a large percentage of their population fluent in other languages. Off the top of my head, the Quebec film industry comes to mind. Did you know that the province of Quebec is the largest exporter of French language media ...IN THE WORLD? They produce more than France itself, ...and please... no French jokes ...it's pretty stale at this point, ...but seriously. Now consider the size of the hispanic population... not just in America, ...but on the PLANET. You speak of American ingenuity... well consider what American ingenuity, fluent in Spanish could produce and export to Mexico, Spain, Argentina, Bolivia, Colombia, Venezuela, Chilé etc., etc., etc.,

And as for highway signs in ENGLISH ONLY... I think such a policy is just plain myopic if not stupid.

The entire world uses easily understandable and recognizeable symbols for good reason.

Cars most often travel upwards of 80 - 100 kms /per hr. The last thing anyone needs is someone making a stupid move because they didn't understand the written words on the road signs. People behind the wheel of a car should not have to rack their brains trying to figure out what a sign says. Better they be able to merely glance at it and have the image compute in an instant, so they can focus their attention on the task at hand, ...namely the safe operation of that vehicle. What's wrong with a highway sign that shows a pic of a gas pump, or a pic of a dinner plate with knife & fork? Those are universal symbols understood by most people from most countries. I'm sure you'd agree the last thing you want is some tourist veering across 3 lanes of traffic, possibly cutting you off or crashing into you, or causing you to ignite a multi-car pile up with vehicle after vehicle rear-ending you while he drives away, ...because he all of a sudden he realized he was about to miss his exit. He drives away oblivious to the havoc he has just wreaked because he's trying to figure out the next road sign.

My cousins on my mom's side had a bilingual education of sorts. From grades 2 - 5 they were in French immersion. Which meant they were educated solely in French. Every subject in school, was taught to them in the French language. Today, they are fluent in both English & French, as well German & Swedish. The older one is also fluent in Croatian as well. Despite his marketable skills, without his many language abilities, he would never have been able to move to Croatia and start a business there with his fiancé... a business that was all the more opportune because of the additional language skills they had.

Do you really want American children to be disadvantaged in the years to come? As a nation, you really should consider bi-lingual education as a sound investment in America's future. The rest of the world has already come to this realization, and have been investing in the future of their children by affording them the tools with which to navigate a global economy with greater ease. Don't do it for illegal immigrants, do it for native born American children.

The problem is that Mexicans don't try to bridge this gap and we shouldn't have to go to great lengths to do it, that should be thier responsibility.  Contrary to what you believe, we do have language classes hear and it is required 2 years in high school and 4 semesters in most colleges. 

RE: Tre
Another note, the ESL students slow down the classrooms when they are integrated, preventing the rest of the class from learning at a faster speed.  Send all the AZ immigrants back to the NE states and see how different test scores are.

[Camel Jockey]

So what you're saying is that the guy in the coffee shop was blind... or just simply an ignorant jerk?
Wow, that coffeeshop owner must be an idiot to hire a blind man to work the cash register, ...especially with your money being all one colour. He must lose a ton of money all day... what with the guy always giving back incorrect change.
The mildly visually impaired in Canada and in most countries around the world don't have as difficult a time with currency. Our money comes in different colours... so even if you can't make out the fine print, the colour of the bill will let you know what denomination it is. Imagine that... a society that actually empowers the challenged to fully partake in, integrate in, and contribute to society rather than be a drain on, or burden to it. What a concept! 

The lady was clearly not literate in the english language.

The guy working the register was not blind. It's hard to pick something out when someone is mumbling something in a language you don't understand and also pointing in a general direction full of different choices. Judging from the cash register guy's complexion, I think he was probably asian or something. How would you expect one of his customers to feel if he started mumbling in chinese? 

[Camel Jockey]

How does one go about comparing the disparity between hispanics learning english and other demographics learning english? Clearly one is not trying to integrate.

I've interacted with many different types of immigrants in NYC. I've never had a russian or chinese person speak their language to me randomly and out of the blue. I've had many instances of hispanics trying to speak spanish to me, at first I thought this was due to me looking hispanic. But even after I told them that I didn't understand they still kept on speaking it with frustration and as though it were my duty to learn their language. And I've seen instances of this with hispanics mumbling to chinese, indians and just about every other demographic.