Author Topic: Prayer and Religion in Public Life  (Read 501398 times)

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #675 on: September 19, 2019, 03:41:50 PM »
A few decades too late as usual.

Catholic Priest Arthur Perrault receives 30 years for molesting altar boy

Former Albuquerque priest Arthur Perrault is expected to spend the rest of his life in prison for aggravated sexual assault of an altar boy in the early 1990s, after a riveting hearing Friday in which a federal judge imposed a 30-year sentence and insisted Perrault stand and face one of the multiple victims he abused decades ago.

“I have to say Mr. Perrault that this is the worst case that I have ever handled and ever seen,” said U.S. District Judge Martha Vázquez, noting that she has presided over many sexual abuse cases in her 26 years as a judge in Santa Fe.

In a rare federal criminal prosecution, Perrault was convicted by a jury in April of seven counts of sexual abuse related to a former altar boy at St. Bernadette’s parish in Albuquerque who once considered the priest his “best friend.”

Perrault, who admitted to at least one earlier molestation of a boy, fled Albuquerque in the fall of 1992 “knowing he would soon be outed as a serial pedophile,” according to a sentencing memorandum filed by the U.S. Attorney’s office. He was charged with the molestation of a single victim, with supporting trial testimony from six other men who said they too had been sexually abused by Perrault as children.

Perrault came to New Mexico from Connecticut in the 1960s to be treated at a religious center for sexual pedophiles and other troubled clergy. Prosecutors alleged he preyed upon and sexually assaulted dozens of minors for decades as a teacher and parish priest in the Albuquerque area and fled in 1992 as he was about to be “outed” for his crimes.


Trial testimony showed at least two clergy or church employees at St. Bernadette either helped Perrault leave or were in contact with him when he relocated to Morocco.

https://www.abqjournal.com/1365775/perrault-sentenced-to-30-years-for-molesting-altar-boy.html

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #676 on: October 04, 2019, 09:51:02 AM »
Almost 1,700 priests and clergy accused of sex abuse are unsupervised

Nearly 1,700 priests and other clergy members that the Roman Catholic Church considers credibly accused of child sexual abuse are living under the radar with little to no oversight from religious authorities or law enforcement, decades after the first wave of the church abuse scandal roiled U.S. dioceses, an Associated Press investigation has found.

These priests, deacons, monks and lay people now teach middle-school math. They counsel survivors of sexual assault. They work as nurses and volunteer at nonprofits aimed at helping at-risk kids. They live next to playgrounds and daycare centers. They foster and care for children.

And in their time since leaving the church, dozens have committed crimes, including sexual assault and possessing child pornography, the AP’s analysis found.

A recent push by Roman Catholic dioceses across the U.S. to publish the names of those it considers to be credibly accused has opened a window into the daunting problem of how to monitor and track priests who often were never criminally charged and, in many cases, were removed from or left the church to live as private citizens.

In addition to the almost 1,700 that the AP was able to identify as largely unsupervised, there were 76 people who could not be located. The remaining clergy members were found to be under some kind of supervision, with some in prison or overseen by church programs.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/nearly-1-700-priests-clergy-accused-sex-abuse-are-unsupervised-n1062396

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #677 on: October 10, 2019, 05:57:20 PM »
Brad Pitt no longer identifies as atheist, says he was just being ‘rebellious’
By Leonardo Blair, Christian Post Reporter| Monday, September 30, 2019

After years of publicly declaring himself an atheist, award-winning actor and film producer Brad Pitt says that he was just being “rebellious” when he kept telling the world he didn’t believe in God.

“Oh, man, I've gone through everything. Like, I cling to religion. I grew up with Christianity. Always questioned it, but it worked at times. And then when I got on my own, I completely left it and I called myself agnostic. Tried a few spiritual things but didn't feel right. Then I called myself an atheist for a while, just kind of being rebellious. I wasn't really. But I kinda labeled myself that for a while. It felt punk rock enough. And then I found myself coming back around to just belief in—I hate to use the word spirituality, but just a belief in that we're all connected,” Pitt, 55, said in an interview for the October issue of GQ.

In a 2009 interview with Bild, when asked if he believed in God, Pitt who was raised Southern Baptist, replied: “No, no, no!”

When pressed on whether his soul is spiritual, he said: “No, no, no! I’m probably 20 percent atheist and 80 percent agnostic. I don’t think anyone really knows. You’ll either find out or not when you get there, until then there’s no point thinking about it."

Two years later in 2011, the 55-year-old actor told Extra how stifled he felt by his religion.

"I got brought up being told things were God's way, and when things didn't work out it was called God's plan. I've got my issues with it. Don't get me started. I found it very stifling," he said.

It was that stifled feeling, he told The Hollywood Reporter, that led him to turn away from his Southern Baptist tradition.

"I grew up very religious, and I don't have a great relationship with religion," he said at the time. "I oscillate between agnosticism and atheism."

The discussion of Pitt’s faith comes as he promotes a new movie called “Ad Astra.” It’s a paranoid thriller in space that follows character Roy McBride, played by Pitt, “on a mission across an unforgiving solar system to uncover the truth about his missing father and his doomed expedition that now, 30 years later, threatens the universe.”

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In the film, faith is presented as something that can often be a distraction from self.

“Yeah. Escape. A looking outward instead of looking inward. Looking beyond, not seeing what's right in front of you,” Pitt said, noting that “it's more comfortable.”

When GQ writer Zach Baron tried asking Pitt what he does to escape from himself, he explained that he is always aware of what’s happening in his life.

“No, I always — I'm aware when I'm doing something in an obsessive way. Like, my friend right now, he's just obsessed with watches, and he looks them up and studies them. And I know he's avoiding something in his … in his domain,” Pitt said.

“I'm very aware. I could feel that from an early age. I knew I was avoiding something. But then once you're aware of it, then what? I mean, the people I'm really drawn to, they just have no filter. They have no protection. They have no filter on their thoughts. They sometimes get in trouble because of that, but I adore them. I adore that they're just so open and raw about their feelings at any moment,” he said.

When asked if he appreciates candid people because his own life is so controlled, Pitt said, “Well, I think we're drawn to what we are trying to change or improve in ourselves. I grew up in the Ozarks, and I've come to learn that we're pioneer stock. We're people who get things done. Don't talk about much; get it done. And we don't complain. Complaining is really looked down upon.

“And it's not true. We're always kind of ‘Woe is me.’ But this idea of if you get hurt, you break an arm, you cut yourself, you just deal with it. You don't make a big fuss about it. And there's a positive side to that that I appreciate. But it works the same way internally — what I've described as not taking inventory of yourself. How are you feeling at this moment? What's really going on? We just don't deal with it, and get on with it. And that, I've found a real hindrance.”

https://www.christianpost.com/guy-identifies-as-atheist-says-he-was-just-being-rebellious.html

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #678 on: October 18, 2019, 06:25:03 PM »
Demario Davis 'Man of God' headband sales explode after NFL fine, he's giving it all to charity
By Yael Halon | Fox News

New Orleans Saints linebacker Demario Davis' has raised $120,000 for a local Mississippi hospital through the sale of his "Man of God" headband that earned him a fine from the NFL back in September.

"This is amazing, it just shows you the power of God... I would have never thought this whole movement would have happened."

— Demario Davis on Fox Nation's "Laura and Raymond"
"This is amazing, it just shows you the power of God," said Davis on the latest episode of Fox Nation's "Laura and Raymond." "You know, I would have never thought this whole movement would have happened — and it's not just here in New Orleans. It's been national."

Davis recently made headlines after he was fined by the NFL for wearing a headband that read, “Man of God” during a Sept. 22 game against the Seahawks in Seattle.

Before appealing the $7,000 fine for the uniform infraction, the linebacker hoped to turn the situation into a positive, he explained, and decided to start selling the headbands and pledging 100 percent of the “Man of God” and “Woman of God” proceeds to St. Dominic Hospital in Jackson, Miss. The league eventually relented and repealed the fine.


Outside linebacker Demario Davis #56 of the New Orleans Saints reacts ahead of the game against the Los Angeles Rams at Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum on Sept. 15, 2019 in Los Angeles. (Meg Oliphant/Getty Images)

The black and gold headbands, priced at $25 apiece, have raised more than $60,000, with an equal matching grant given to the hospital bringing the donations to $120,000 to date.

Davis, in his second season with the Saints, is one of the most vocal players in the NFL when it comes to his faith. Describing his reaction to the initial fine, David said he felt "conflicted."

“Should I continue to wear it because of the messaging or would I follow the rule? Which would bring ultimate glory to God," he explained on the Fox Nation show.

Many rallied behind the professional linebacker, but he was especially moved by a school of young fans who made their own “Child of God” headbands to show support.

"To see the kids make the paper headbands was just unbelievable," Davis said in the latest episode.

"If you can reach the kids, you know it's real because kids don't think based on politics or anything like that...they're just thinking with what they feel," he said, detailing plans to visit the students to "express his gratitude" in the coming weeks.

FOX 8 New Orleans

@FOX8NOLA


Saints linebacker won’t have to pay fine; school shows support with ‘Child of God’ headbands https://www.fox8live.com/2019/10/08/saints-linebacker-wont-have-pay-fine-school-shows-suport-with-child-god-headbands/

Saints linebacker won’t have to pay fine; school shows support with ‘Child of God’ headbands
A Metairie Catholic school showed support to a Saints player by letting students wear headbands expressing their faith.

fox8live.com
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Davis said he was able to see God's hand throughout the entire deal, and looks forward to raising more money for the emergency department at the hospital.

"It went from something that was going to cost me $7,000 now went in favor of good, $120,000 and we just took that fine that we were planning on paying to the league and donated it to the cause," he said.

Later in the segment, Fox Nation host Raymond Arroyo asked Davis about a recent incident on the field after Davis plowed into Jacksonville Jaguars tight end Geoff Swaim sending the receiver – and the ball – to the ground.

A clearly hurt Swaim remained on the field following the hit, but Davis immediately began praying for the opposing player.

Deuce Windham
@RevDeuceWindham
Emotional scene as #Saints LB Demario Davis is on the field with players from both teams praying for #Jaguars TE Jeff Swaim whom Davis hit on an attempted pass.

Looked like Davis led with shoulder, but tried to duck underneath. Swaim took a huge shot. Being tended to now.


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"I just wanted to take time to pray for him, and my prayers and thoughts are still with him, hopefully, he is going to fully recover from that, because it's such a fast game, and so much is happening so fast...and I heard the crowd before I turned around and I was like 'oh, that must've not been good'...and the first thing that I did was just to go and pray...and I think that respect is mutual across the field," Davis explained.

The linebacker got deeply personal during many points of the Fox Nation segment, discussing his tumultuous childhood, his prison time and how it transformed his life, and his journey to finding God. He also said he holds no grudges against the NFL for the headband fine and reiterated his purpose to "glorify God" in everything he does.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/demario-davis-man-of-god-headbands-jump-as-he-announces-120k-for-local-hospital

avxo

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #679 on: October 19, 2019, 08:51:42 AM »
Demario Davis 'Man of God' headband sales explode after NFL fine, he's giving it all to charity
By Yael Halon | Fox News

New Orleans Saints linebacker Demario Davis' has raised $120,000 for a local Mississippi hospital through the sale of his "Man of God" headband that earned him a fine from the NFL back in September.

That’s a nice gesture on his behalf.


Davis recently made headlines after he was fined by the NFL for wearing a headband that read, “Man of God” during a Sept. 22 game against the Seahawks in Seattle.

I can sorta understand the need for some rules, but this one seems overbroad to begin with and stupid of the NFL to try and enforce it in this instance. But then again, this ain’t the first time the NFL has done something stupid.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #680 on: October 22, 2019, 09:20:39 AM »
That’s a nice gesture on his behalf.


I can sorta understand the need for some rules, but this one seems overbroad to begin with and stupid of the NFL to try and enforce it in this instance. But then again, this ain’t the first time the NFL has done something stupid.

I agree.

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #681 on: October 24, 2019, 02:12:15 PM »
Report names 43 Colorado Catholic priests accused of sexually abusing at least 166 children since 1950

Forty-three Catholic priests have been credibly accused of sexually abusing at least 166 children in Colorado since 1950, according to a ground-breaking report made public Wednesday morning.

One priest, Father Harold Robert White, had 63 substantiated allegations lodged against him. In the report, the Colorado Attorney General’s Office referred to White as "the most prolific known clergy child sex abuser in Colorado history.”

"His sexual abuse of children began before he was ordained in 1960, and it continued for at least 21 years in at least six parishes from Denver to Colorado Springs to Sterling to Loveland to Minturn to Aspen,"
the report reads.

" … This one priest’s career and the Denver Archdiocese’s management of it present a microcosm of virtually all the failures we found elsewhere in our review of the Colorado Dioceses’ child sex abuse history."

White died in 2006 at age 73. Though the first accusations against him were made in 1960, he wasn't permanently removed from the ministry until 1993.

The report found that from 1950 to present:

  • At least 127 children were victimized by 22 priests in the Archdiocese of Denver.
  • At least three children were victimized by two Roman Catholic priests in the Diocese of Colorado Springs.
  • At least 36 children were victimized by 19 Roman Catholic priests in the Diocese of Pueblo.
  • One allegation is still potentially viable for prosecution within the relevant statute of limitations. It had already been reported to authorities.

According to the report, just five of the Colorado priests had abused at least 102 of the 166 known victims. Two-thirds of those victims were abused in the 1960s and 1970s.

On average, it took nearly 20 years for the church to restrict a priest’s authority after receiving an allegation of sexual abuse, the report found.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/priest-abuse-list-colorado-catholic-priests-accused-child-sex-abuse/73-db1f5024-eb63-4c81-9d86-e3023ea698fe

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #682 on: October 25, 2019, 06:47:29 PM »
Supreme Court rejects case of Christian teen forced to write Islamic conversion prayer
By Lauren Green | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/supreme-court-rejects-case-of-christian-teen-forced-to-write-islamic-conversion-prayer

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #683 on: October 25, 2019, 08:50:38 PM »
That’s a nice gesture on his behalf.


I can sorta understand the need for some rules, but this one seems overbroad to begin with and stupid of the NFL to try and enforce it in this instance. But then again, this ain’t the first time the NFL has done something stupid.

I think the NFL is just trying to avoid the "Islam is the Only Way" headband which would certainly show up if this was allowed

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #684 on: November 05, 2019, 04:21:06 PM »
High school football player goes viral after praying for opponent whose mom is battling cancer
Ashleigh Jackson, Digital Content Producer
Posted on Nov 5, 2019 
KXII-TV via CNN

Two high school football players took a knee and prayed together after their game, and a photo of the touching moment is going viral. 

(Meredith) - A photo of two high school athletes praying together following their football game in Sherman, Texas, is touching hearts across the country.

Gage Smith, a wide receiver at Sherman High School, made several key plays to help lead his team to victory during Friday night's game against Mesquite West.

After that win, he took a knee to pray with his opponent, Ty Jordan, whose mother is battling cancer.

"I just had a moment with him praying over him, his mom, and his family," Smith told KXII-TV.

The high school senior said at that moment he was not thinking about the score, he just wanted to show compassion.

"When you're playing the game, you're playing to win, and the other team is the enemy. But afterward, you still have respect for the other opponent," he said. "Football brings people together in so many different ways, and that was just one example of it that night."

Smith and Jordan first met while playing on a select 7-on-7 team, according to the station.

Following the game on Friday, Jordan's aunt posted the touching image to Facebook, where it went viral. It's been shared more than 150,000 times as of Tuesday morning.

"This melts my heart," Jordan's aunt wrote.

J.D. Martinez, the head football coach at Sherman High School, told KXII-TV that Smith is a leader on and off the field. Martinez said his wife took the viral photo and shared it with Smith's mom, who then passed it on to Jordan's family.

"It's pretty special that kind of everybody gets to see really what he is," Martinez said. "He's that type of kid all the time. It's just not in front of the cameras or anything like that. He's like that every day."

https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/us_world_news/high-school-football-player-goes-viral-after-praying-for-opponent/article_253b92f4-c95d-53ad-bebc-8d014b38f9b1.html?fbclid=IwAR0Eu_YWKmE_TM0c1kDuhKTSSbuCDTR8rdEGJgIbqjRkAFAFzoH65aP-eBo

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #685 on: November 12, 2019, 10:17:17 AM »
Trump Gets Impromptu Prayer Huddle from Alabama Football Team
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avxo

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #686 on: November 12, 2019, 03:36:48 PM »
High school football player goes viral after praying for opponent whose mom is battling cancer

That’s a nice gesture and one that I’m sure was genuine and heartfelt, but I can’t help but point out what Matthew 6:5-6 has to say about praying and especially “showboating”:


And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and
in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy
closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray
to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father
which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #687 on: November 12, 2019, 04:16:40 PM »
That’s a nice gesture and one that I’m sure was genuine and heartfelt, but I can’t help but point out what Matthew 6:5-6 has to say about praying and especially “showboating”:


And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and
in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy
closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray
to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father
which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


I'm not as sure.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #688 on: November 12, 2019, 05:24:11 PM »
That’s a nice gesture and one that I’m sure was genuine and heartfelt, but I can’t help but point out what Matthew 6:5-6 has to say about praying and especially “showboating”:


And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and
in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy
closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray
to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father
which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


I guess one way to interpret this is that no one should ever pray in public or around other people.  But that's not a reasonable interpretation. 

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #689 on: November 13, 2019, 12:24:37 AM »
I guess one way to interpret this is that no one should ever pray in public or around other people.  But that's not a reasonable interpretation. 

I don't think there's much interpreting going on here. This is very direct: _"pray in secret and keep what you're praying for between yourself and God."_

Also, as a sidenote, I find it interesting that God's perfect word is open to (or requires) interpretation. You'd think the "instruction manual" would be perfectly clear, devoid of ambiguity and not in need of any interpretation. But I guess that's too much to ask, isn't it?

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #690 on: November 13, 2019, 12:55:36 PM »
I don't think there's much interpreting going on here. This is very direct: _"pray in secret and keep what you're praying for between yourself and God."_

Also, as a sidenote, I find it interesting that God's perfect word is open to (or requires) interpretation. You'd think the "instruction manual" would be perfectly clear, devoid of ambiguity and not in need of any interpretation. But I guess that's too much to ask, isn't it?

Of course there is.  Reading that verse in a vacuum makes no sense.  It would mean you never pray out loud in church.  That's silly.  

And no, there is nothing wrong with having to use critical thinking when reading the Bible.  Christianity is a thinking man's religion.  It really does take analysis and use of common sense to read and understand everything.

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #691 on: November 14, 2019, 09:47:33 AM »
Of course there is.  Reading that verse in a vacuum makes no sense.  It would mean you never pray out loud in church.  That's silly.  

And no, there is nothing wrong with having to use critical thinking when reading the Bible.  Christianity is a thinking man's religion.  It really does take analysis and use of common sense to read and understand everything.

If it’s a thinking man’s religion, then not everyone can be saved since not everyone has the rational capacity necessary. And yet, the premise behind a Christianity is that salvation is open to everyone, conditioned only on one thing: belief in Jesus Christ.

As for praying in public, again the verses are crystal clear and provide explicit directions for how one is to pray. You can’t have it both ways: either the Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant and complete word of God and it instructs you to pray in secret, or it’s not the divinely inspired, inerrant and complete word of God in which case why bother with it?

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #692 on: November 14, 2019, 11:38:24 AM »
If it’s a thinking man’s religion, then not everyone can be saved since not everyone has the rational capacity necessary. And yet, the premise behind a Christianity is that salvation is open to everyone, conditioned only on one thing: belief in Jesus Christ.

As for praying in public, again the verses are crystal clear and provide explicit directions for how one is to pray. You can’t have it both ways: either the Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant and complete word of God and it instructs you to pray in secret, or it’s not the divinely inspired, inerrant and complete word of God in which case why bother with it?

Not true.  The Bible specifically talks about a person being held accountable for what they know, not what they don't know. 

Context is everything.  Common sense matters.  But if you put those two aside, then yes you have a point. 

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #693 on: November 14, 2019, 08:37:20 PM »
Not true.  The Bible specifically talks about a person being held accountable for what they know, not what they don't know. 

Context is everything.  Common sense matters.  But if you put those two aside, then yes you have a point. 

The Bible may say that but it also sports several examples that run counter to that; you’d expect God’s word to be consistent, especially about something this important but you know, apparently not even God can keep all his nonsense straight.

As for your please about common sense, please spare us. Your religion’s main thrust is that God knowingly set a standard which we could not live up and made the punishment for failing to do the impossible to be death. He then got the feels and rather than say “aww shucks, all is forgiven” he decided to sacrifice himself to himself to appease his own anger so that he can save us and we can all live together in a city with golden roads. Because he loves us.

Don’t talk to me about common sense.

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #694 on: November 14, 2019, 08:45:28 PM »
The Bible may say that but it also sports several examples that run counter to that; you’d expect God’s word to be consistent, especially about something this important but you know, apparently not even God can keep all his nonsense straight.

As for your please about common sense, please spare us. Your religion’s main thrust is that God knowingly set a standard which we could not live up and made the punishment for failing to do the impossible to be death. He then got the feels and rather than say “aww shucks, all is forgiven” he decided to sacrifice himself to himself to appease his own anger so that he can save us and we can all live together in a city with golden roads. Because he loves us.

Don’t talk to me about common sense.

You are obviously free to disagree.  My oft-repeated saying, which you are free to borrow, is that reasonable and unreasonable minds can disagree.   :)

Seriously, though, there is definitely a great deal of analysis that goes into Bible study and interpretation.  The Bible itself even says you need to compare scripture with scripture.  And yes, you definitely need to apply common sense if you want a reasonable interpretation, which goes hand in hand with context.   

There are some things I don't understand, but much of it I do.  And I use my own judgment.  I apply logic.  Use faith where I think it's necessary.  It makes things relatively uncomplicated.  And I have no problem disagreeing with other Christians who have a different viewpoint, which has happened a number of times. 

What I don't do is let anyone tell me how I'm supposed to interpret what I read or how I live my life. 

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #695 on: November 15, 2019, 07:13:38 PM »
I don't think there's much interpreting going on here. This is very direct: _"pray in secret and keep what you're praying for between yourself and God."_

Also, as a sidenote, I find it interesting that God's perfect word is open to (or requires) interpretation. You'd think the "instruction manual" would be perfectly clear, devoid of ambiguity and not in need of any interpretation. But I guess that's too much to ask, isn't it?

Nothing more to say.. this sums it up. But... modern Christianity isn't really about what the bible says, or what Jesus says.. hasn't been for a long time. You can do what AVXO did and point out exactly what Jesus said, but todays Christians will still argue it.. based on nothing but what THEY think it ought to be..

avxo

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #696 on: November 16, 2019, 01:19:55 AM »
You are obviously free to disagree.  My oft-repeated saying, which you are free to borrow, is that reasonable and unreasonable minds can disagree.   :)

That much we agree on. That's something.

Seriously, though, there is definitely a great deal of analysis that goes into Bible study and interpretation.  The Bible itself even says you need to compare scripture with scripture.  And yes, you definitely need to apply common sense if you want a reasonable interpretation, which goes hand in hand with context. 

I know there is a great deal of analysis; that's the whole point of pastors "explaining" the Bible, isn't it? To be perfectly honest, I do very much enjoy hearing radio pastors who role-play as experts in exegetics and apologetics and regularly twist themselves into knots to justify just about anything.

Of course, there's the simple fact that no amount of analysis works sometimes. You know what they say: "garbage in, garbage out."


There are some things I don't understand, but much of it I do.  And I use my own judgment.  I apply logic.  Use faith where I think it's necessary.  It makes things relatively uncomplicated.  And I have no problem disagreeing with other Christians who have a different viewpoint, which has happened a number of times.

I can respect that position.


What I don't do is let anyone tell me how I'm supposed to interpret what I read or how I live my life. 

I can respect that position as well. You're certainly free to interpret what you read in any way you want, but you do so at your peril since, ultimately, you are responsible for your actions and not the book you read. And while you are free to live your life in any way you see fit, that freedom doesn't allow you to try to force your sense of morality on your personal beliefs on others, nor does it entitle you to claim that the Bible proposes a divine and inerrant moral code if you believe that it's open to interpretation.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #697 on: November 18, 2019, 03:34:36 PM »
That much we agree on. That's something.

I know there is a great deal of analysis; that's the whole point of pastors "explaining" the Bible, isn't it? To be perfectly honest, I do very much enjoy hearing radio pastors who role-play as experts in exegetics and apologetics and regularly twist themselves into knots to justify just about anything.

Of course, there's the simple fact that no amount of analysis works sometimes. You know what they say: "garbage in, garbage out."


I can respect that position.


I can respect that position as well. You're certainly free to interpret what you read in any way you want, but you do so at your peril since, ultimately, you are responsible for your actions and not the book you read. And while you are free to live your life in any way you see fit, that freedom doesn't allow you to try to force your sense of morality on your personal beliefs on others, nor does it entitle you to claim that the Bible proposes a divine and inerrant moral code if you believe that it's open to interpretation.

There is no peril in how I interpret the Bible or how I live my life. 

Regarding forcing my sense of morality or personal belief on others, I never do that so not sure what you're talking about. 

And I can claim whatever I want about what the Bible proposes, just like you or anyone else can.  My viewpoint is my viewpoint.  Yours is yours.   

What exactly are we debating here anyway?  lol 

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #698 on: November 28, 2019, 08:19:40 PM »
There is no peril in how I interpret the Bible or how I live my life. 

Regarding forcing my sense of morality or personal belief on others, I never do that so not sure what you're talking about. 

And I can claim whatever I want about what the Bible proposes, just like you or anyone else can.  My viewpoint is my viewpoint.  Yours is yours.   

What exactly are we debating here anyway?  lol 

Obviously you know more about what Jesus said than.....Jesus....  ::)

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #699 on: November 29, 2019, 11:50:00 AM »
Obviously you know more about what Jesus said than.....Jesus....  ::)

I know what He said by reading what He said.  But thanks for another meaningless troll post.