48,000 pvt military forces currently fighting in iraq for us

[240 is Back]

according to the US govt accountability office.

Very interesting.  and 126,000 TOTAL contractors.

So in addition to the approx 160,000 fighting men we have there, we also have nearly 50,000 ADDITIONAL fighting forces.  And withdrawl plans DON'T include them - they stay when we leave.

it's weird to think that for every 3 soldiers fighting in iraq, there is 1 guy who operates independently without restraint, unreported in areas unknown to reach our goals.


Seriously, those 2500 insurgents running around are fighting 210,000 US fighters (50k of which can do what they please)
Why haven't we crushed them beyond belief?

[Cap]

3 Reasons

1.) Marine and Army grunts suck at their current mission.  They are great fighting men but CQB and going door-to-door are not their forte. 

2.) Sean D. Naylor : Clearly, non kinetic missions are not the panacea for the very credible and tangible threats that have been noted in this essay. The constancy of nation state ascension strategies in addition to asymmetrical and conventional warfighting threats only compound these threats in the current age of even more serious proliferation threats.

“We’ve got to get after developing friends and allies and proxies, because when you fight an insurgency, the best people to do this are the host countries, not American forces,” said Downing, a former Ranger.”

3.) Contractors are great but they have a different mission.  They protect things more than anything else right now, but you are right in that they can kill indiscriminatly. 

[Old_Rooster]

according to the US govt accountability office.

Very interesting.  and 126,000 TOTAL contractors.

So in addition to the approx 160,000 fighting men we have there, we also have nearly 50,000 ADDITIONAL fighting forces.  And withdrawl plans DON'T include them - they stay when we leave.

it's weird to think that for every 3 soldiers fighting in iraq, there is 1 guy who operates independently without restraint, unreported in areas unknown to reach our goals.


Seriously, those 2500 insurgents running around are fighting 210,000 US fighters (50k of which can do what they please)
Why haven't we crushed them beyond belief?

Because they dress like civilians and we have to be so damn careful to not harm a hair on the head of a civilian that it puts our troops at greater risk.  The bomb at Hiroshima really ended things pretty quickly but we can't do that again.  But for all of you that wanted this war won in 2 days, that really would be the only way.  Instead its a long hard road, I for one am glad the president has the nuts in his sack to realize that early on.  God bless our troops and our leader.

[240 is Back]

Because they dress like civilians and we have to be so damn careful to not harm a hair on the head of a civilian that it puts our troops at greater risk.

Wrong.

They dress like civvies but they have power to kill and not be held accountable.  They do wetwork we cannot do by world standards.  They torture, snipe, and do 'whatever it takes' when we cannot.

They are the black ops.

To say 'they can't hurt a hair on civilians' is just dead wrong bro.  they are able to do things our men cannot by law.

[Cap]

Wrong.

They dress like civvies but they have power to kill and not be held accountable.  They do wetwork we cannot do by world standards.  They torture, snipe, and do 'whatever it takes' when we cannot.

They are the black ops.

To say 'they can't hurt a hair on civilians' is just dead wrong bro.  they are able to do things our men cannot by law.

I think he meant that Haji dresses like a civilian and thus blends in with his bretheren.  As far as contractors, they can do whatever.  Seems like a fun job. 

[Decker]

3 Reasons

1.) Marine and Army grunts suck at their current mission.  They are great fighting men but CQB and going door-to-door are not their forte.  ...

That's an excellent point.

Battling terrorism is a police matter and is not subject to a military solution.  Our soldiers are not fighting a war.  They are policing neighborhoods and trying to keep the peace in a burdgeoning civil war.

[Old_Rooster]

I think he meant that Haji dresses like a civilian and thus blends in with his bretheren.  As far as contractors, they can do whatever.  Seems like a fun job. 

I'm on 3 Loritab because the hip hurts so much today, not sure what i meant.  I'm sure i was backing bush though...

[240 is Back]

every week you hear new charges of contractors who will just waste 1-3 Iraqis at once, and use the "the made a move" card.

a few days back, prison planet had a crazy sotry about some contractors publicly joking to one another 'i'm going to kill someone tonight' then immediately being involved in a shady shooting.

They do what they want.  Rooster, read about them.  They're gangster.

[headhuntersix]

Ok...since u know nothing about these guys lets not make any judgements 240. Most if not all contractors are either ex SF/Seals..Delta or Rangers/Marines. These are generally folks that are pretty professional. Only one guy has been prosecuted for anything remotely connected to operations in Iraq as a contractor..violation of the Patriot act or something. The guys ur talking about Black Water/Triple Canopy/Dynacore are different then the Black ops subcontractors working for the CIA and other groups. The defense contractors cannot take part in offensive operations as part of their contracts. Several have......as part of the defense of a US/Iraqi rebuilding oragnization compound in 2004. I think that was shown on Discovery channel. They have fought with US troops when situations arrise. This is the new face of war...most of our contractors, the big three will pull out when we do. most have stated both publicly and privately that they will never operate at odds with US interests. Most if not all of their contracts are with the US government. Blackwater had over 600 million in government contracts in '05. They want to be able to build a unit that can be hired in battalion strength that the UN or whoever can rent to fight offensively. It is cheaper for us to use a company like this then it is to use soldiers in the same roll.

[Cap]

Ok...since u know nothing about these guys lets not make any judgements 240. Most if not all contractors are either ex SF/Seals..Delta or Rangers/Marines. These are generally folks that are pretty professional. Only one guy has been prosecuted for anything remotely connected to operations in Iraq as a contractor..violation of the Patriot act or something. The guys ur talking about Black Water/Triple Canopy/Dynacore are different then the Black ops subcontractors working for the CIA and other groups. The defense contractors cannot take part in offensive operations as part of their contracts. Several have......as part of the defense of a US/Iraqi rebuilding oragnization compound in 2004. I think that was shown on Discovery channel. They have fought with US troops when situations arrise. This is the new face of war...most of our contractors, the big three will pull out when we do. most have stated both publicly and privately that they will never operate at odds with US interests. Most if not all of their contracts are with the US government. Blackwater had over 600 million in government contracts in '05. They want to be able to build a unit that can be hired in battalion strength that the UN or whoever can rent to fight offensively. It is cheaper for us to use a company like this then it is to use soldiers in the same roll.

I have said this so many times here but nobody seems to get it.  You are right though, they are very useful.  Blackwaters told me four years as a cop could get me in so I am def keeping that in mind.

[headhuntersix]

Yeah..what he's doing now is a 9 week..may have to check that, boot camp for guys like u in NC at the headquarters. After u make that then u will offered a spot. I have given it alot of thought but don't have the skill set to go directly in. There are things u can do to increase ur chances...smaller outfits first..course in hand guns and other shooting techniques..combat driving etc. Love to know how it works out. u could also do the dynacore thing as a police officer trainer in Afghanistan.

[240 is Back]

Wait - you're saying that private military contractors are paid LESS than those in the Army?

[Cap]

Wait - you're saying that private military contractors are paid LESS than those in the Army?

No.  They have 6 month deployments with some getting 300 grand off the books.

[Old_Rooster]

ahhhh, 2 more loritab...damn i need a new hip.

[240 is Back]

It is cheaper for us to use a company like this then it is to use soldiers in the same roll.

I don't see how paying a contracter $300k a year is cheaper than paying an Army man 40k a year.

[Cap]

I don't see how paying a contracter $300k a year is cheaper than paying an Army man 40k a year.

They are already highly trained and better at the current mission than any grunt.  It costs money to train a soldier, but using already trained soldiers does cut expenses.

[240 is Back]

They are already highly trained and better at the current mission than any grunt.  It costs money to train a soldier, but using already trained soldiers does cut expenses.

I'd LOVE to see you quantify/verify this claim with real numbers.

Are you telling me it costss $250k+ to train an 18-year old kid for 3 months to do a job in iraq?

No...

[Old_Rooster]

I'd LOVE to see you quantify/verify this claim with real numbers.

Are you telling me it costss $250k+ to train an 18-year old kid for 3 months to do a job in iraq?

No...

They spend 180K to train a border recruit.

[240 is Back]

They spend 180K to train a border recruit.

how long does that training take?

[Cap]

I'd LOVE to see you quantify/verify this claim with real numbers.

Are you telling me it costss $250k+ to train an 18-year old kid for 3 months to do a job in iraq?

No...

No but crunch these numbers

Average cost to train a recruit: $14,320

Lets use an example: 50,000 recruits (random number).  $716,000,000 to train.   Of thos 50,000 lets say the average income is $20,000 you are looking 1 billion $ right there.  Multiply that by years spent in conflict in addition to those already serving.  Also note that not all contractors are making 300 grand and not all of them are the type of contractors you are thinking of.  Also note that contracts ar going down and have decreased sharply.

[240 is Back]

Average cost to train a recruit: $14,320

So to put one army man in the field is $40k + 15k = 55k.
To put one contractor in is $250k to 400k.

Plus, you don't have to train every man every year.  you can, but it's not required.

[Old_Rooster]

how long does that training take?

it was a matter of months , saw a story on tv the other night about it.


ah hell, me thinks i'm gonna take my ailing him to the golf course ....  i swing with pain.

have a good weekend folks, tell jag i love her.   

[Cap]

So to put one army man in the field is $40k + 15k = 55k.
To put one contractor in is $250k to 400k.

Plus, you don't have to train every man every year.  you can, but it's not required.

That amount is according to Wikipedia which I dont think is current but it is the most immediate source I could give you.  Consider the amount of troops in the field and how many we are still training and it adds up.  Again I say, contracts are going down.

If the average soldier made $30,000 a year, that would be 5 billion just in paying them their wage.

[benchmstr]

according to the US govt accountability office.

Very interesting.  and 126,000 TOTAL contractors.

So in addition to the approx 160,000 fighting men we have there, we also have nearly 50,000 ADDITIONAL fighting forces.  And withdrawl plans DON'T include them - they stay when we leave.

it's weird to think that for every 3 soldiers fighting in iraq, there is 1 guy who operates independently without restraint, unreported in areas unknown to reach our goals.


Seriously, those 2500 insurgents running around are fighting 210,000 US fighters (50k of which can do what they please)
Why haven't we crushed them beyond belief?

blackwater is a good group with my full support,i have several friends working for them and have came very close to working for them myself

but as contractors they can only do so much,if they are not authorized to do something they simply cant do it.just like the rest of the military

but in the end the country is like a buisness,it can only go as far as the management allows and judging by our managment(bush) we are fucked

bench

[Camel Jockey]

I think the security companies employee Iraqis as well. How come they can train some asshole off of the streets of Baghdad when they're contractors and the world's most advanced military can't?  Looks like horrible management on the military's part when it comes to leaving behind a strong Iraqi police force.

They are already highly trained and better at the current mission than any grunt.  It costs money to train a soldier, but using already trained soldiers does cut expenses.

Plus, I bet most of the mercs are older men over 30.