Late term abortion exceptions?

[Hugo Chavez]

Shouldn't there be exceptions?  I ask this after having witnessed a mother have to give birth to a baby with no brain and the extra trauma that caused everyone.  Why do we have to always make thing so black and white, this or that, yes or no when life isn't like that...

[militarymuscle69]

Shouldn't there be exceptions?  I ask this after having witnessed a mother have to give birth to a baby with no brain and the extra trauma that caused everyone.  Why do we have to always make thing so black and white, this or that, yes or no when life isn't like that...

unfortunately, if you allow exceptions it gives people an oppurtunity to abuse the loop holes. Like the doctor in KS that was making up health issues to justify abortions. I feel for your..was it sister?...but to many jerks ruin it for honest people..

[Hugo Chavez]

unfortunately, if you allow exceptions it gives people an opportunity to abuse the loop holes. Like the doctor in KS that was making up health issues to justify abortions. I feel for your..was it sister?...but to many jerks ruin it for honest people..

That's a bad doctor.  If a guy like that is going to lie the law won't stop him.  He broke the law, he should be investigated and prosecuted.  Under your logic, you're anti-gun too!


It was my sister in law and trust me, it was an absolutely hideous experience for me to witness, I can't begin to fathom what they went through. "Here's your baby, don't worry about the collapsed head, it normal absent a brain." 

[militarymuscle69]

That's a bad doctor.  If a guy like that is going to lie the law won't stop him.  He broke the law, he should be investigated and prosecuted.  Under your logic, you're anti-gun too!


It was my sister in law and trust me, it was an absolutely hideous experience for me to witness, I can't begin to fathom what they went through. "Here's your baby, don't worry about the collapsed head, it normal absent a brain." 

I am pretty sure he was prosecuted, that is why I heard about the story (good thing it didn't happen in new england) and you are right people like that will always do shit like that....I'm not saying I am against exceptions because I am, even god's plan goes wrong sometimes....just want to make sure it is worded right to limit loop holes.

[The Enigma]

unfortunately, if you allow exceptions it gives people an oppurtunity to abuse the loop holes. ..

I agree with MM69. Only one exception....a mother risking her life, if she gives birth.

[Hugo Chavez]

I am pretty sure he was prosecuted, that is why I heard about the story (good thing it didn't happen in new england) and you are right people like that will always do shit like that....I'm not saying I am against exceptions because I am, even god's plan goes wrong sometimes....just want to make sure it is worded right to limit loop holes.

I agree with that.  Mark that as a first for us.

[Dos Equis]

Hydrocephalic babies are tragic, but sounds like what you're really asking is whether a mother should be able to abort a disabled baby.    

[Hugo Chavez]

Hydrocephalic babies are tragic, but sounds like what you're really asking is whether a mother should be able to abort a disabled baby.    

No, I'm asking if a mother should be able to abort a child that has no chance at life!!!!  How did you pull "disabled" out of anyting I said!!!!  This baby had a brain the size of an pencil easer and the rest of the head was fluid, they told her it would be delivered dead almost 3 months before, but do to all the bullshit, she had to carry it to term, have the doctor suck all the fluid out of the baby's head, collapsing it and deliver it.  It was her first baby too.  but a couple years ago, thankfully, she did give birth to a healthy baby...

[Dos Equis]

No, I'm asking if a mother should be able to abort a child that has no chance at life!!!!  How did you pull "disabled" out of anyting I said!!!!  This baby had a brain the size of an pencil easer and the rest of the head was fluid, they told her it would be delivered dead almost 3 months before, but do to all the bullshit, she had to carry it to term, have the doctor suck all the fluid out of the baby's head, collapsing it and deliver it.  It was her first baby too.  but a couple years ago, thankfully, she did give birth to a healthy baby...

Meltdown?   

A hydrocephalic newborn is obviously disabled.  There are a number of other conditions that some babies are born with that significantly shorten their lives.  They're disabled too.  The way I frame this issue is:  the abortion of disabled babies.  You don't have to agree . . . . and I don't care if you do.  This is just a discussion. 

[Hugo Chavez]

Meltdown?   

A hydrocephalic newborn is obviously disabled.  There are a number of other conditions that some babies are born with that significantly shorten their lives.  They're disabled too.  The way I frame this issue is:  the abortion of disabled babies.  You don't have to agree . . . . and I don't care if you do.  This is just a discussion. 

I don't give a fuck rats ass what you're talking about, YOU said it souded like I said....  I said shit nothing about disabled.  I'm in a bad mood today

[The Enigma]

I don't give a fuck rats ass what you're talking about, YOU said it souded like I said....  I said shit nothing about disabled.  I'm in a bad mood today

A bad mood.....how can you tell?

[Camel Jockey]

Chuck unwanted babies into a river.

[Cap]

The problem with abortion, at any time, is that a majority use it as a matter of convenience.  Many do have complications but should we use abortions so people do not have to deal with disabled babies?  If a parent knows their kid will be handicapped should we kill it to be convenient?  Women use it every day mostly because they spread their legs and don't want to deal with the consequences.  Having exceptions makes it easier for these types of women.  Essentially with medical advances you could kill babies that do not have desirable traits and that is not good.

[Dos Equis]

I don't give a fuck rats ass what you're talking about, YOU said it souded like I said....  I said shit nothing about disabled.  I'm in a bad mood today

Irritated-PMS-type-meltdown.   

You raised an issue.  I restated it.  You disagree.  So what. 

Cap raises a good question:  "If a parent knows their kid will be handicapped should we kill it to be convenient?"

[Hugo Chavez]

Look, I don't know about all this crap being added... To clarify, I'm wonding if there should be exceptions where it is discovered late term that the baby will not live no matter what.  I mean in this case there was 0 chance of life.  I'm sure there is no way of replacing a brain that didn't develop.  I saw the ultrasound and the actual brain was very and I mean very tiny, it was mostly fluid.  All I can say is if the kid has no chance at life, why put the mother through the trauma?  It's terrible.  That is all that i'm saying, I'm not even reaching into the disabled issue or anything else.  If you all saw the pain these two went through, you might ask the same questions of the politics that forced this baby to full term.

[Cap]

Look, I don't know about all this crap being added... To clarify, I'm wonding if there should be exceptions where it is discovered late term that the baby will not live no matter what.  I mean in this case there was 0 chance of life.  I'm sure there is no way of replacing a brain that didn't develop.  I saw the ultrasound and the actual brain was very and I mean very tiny, it was mostly fluid.  All I can say is if the kid has no chance at life, why put the mother through the trauma?  It's terrible.  That is all that i'm saying, I'm not even reaching into the disabled issue or anything else.  If you all saw the pain these two went through, you might ask the same questions of the politics that forced this baby to full term.

I can sympathize with you and your family but there is a natural order of things and I feel like these issues can create a slippery slope that I would never want to see happen.

[Dos Equis]

I can sympathize with you and your family but there is a natural order of things and I feel like these issues can create a slippery slope that I would never want to see happen.

Precisely.  Slippery slope is right.  It is very difficult to start drawing lines when you talk about aborting disabled babies.  What about the baby who will have a 1 or 2 year lifespan?  Down's Syndrome?  Severe physical deformities? 

I don't have the answers and I thank God I've never been in that situation.     

[Hugo Chavez]

The difference between dead and alive is not a fine line, it's a huge distinction.  I'm not sure why you guys keep trying to bring "disabled" into this, again, i'm NOT going there, I'm talking about can't live as in under the same situation that a loved one would make the call to pull the plug for another loved one when the docs come in and say, there is zero chance for life.  Why should the call be any different if it's for a loved one not born yet?  When the doctor tells the mother that the baby is braindead(no brain) and will be terminated during delivery, that's pretty fucking black and white and not what I would call a slippery slope.

[Dos Equis]

The difference between dead and alive is not a fine line, it's a huge distinction.  I'm not sure why you guys keep trying to bring "disabled" into this, again, i'm NOT going there, I'm talking about can't live as in under the same situation that a loved one would make the call to pull the plug for another loved one when the docs come in and say, there is zero chance for life.  Why should the call be any different if it's for a loved one not born yet?  When the doctor tells the mother that the baby is braindead(no brain) and will be terminated during delivery, that's pretty fucking black and white and not what I would call a slippery slope.

Not really.  Stillborn is black and white.  A baby with a beating heart, etc. is alive, even if the baby will only live for a short while. 

[Hugo Chavez]

Not really.  Stillborn is black and white.  A baby with a beating heart, etc. is alive, even if the baby will only live for a short while. 

When the doctors say the bady will not live and there is no chance for life, what's the mother going to do, look at the easer sized brain and say, I disagree.  Perhaps you would choose to have the mother torn open to pull out the enlarged headed baby and aid a braindead baby in living so the parents could spend the rest of their lives caring for an empty shell.  Man, aren't you guys being a little extremist about this?  Again, they were sure this baby would not live so I doubt life would have been even possible.  So look, when the docs come in and tell you your mother can't make it and you're just keeping them on life support, the choice is up to you to pull the plug, how is this different?  The docs have come in and said, this baby won't live.  How is this any different?

[Dos Equis]

When the doctors say the bady will not live and there is no chance for life, what's the mother going to do, look at the easer sized brain and say, I disagree.  Perhaps you would choose to have the mother torn open to pull out the enlarged headed baby and aid a braindead baby in living so the parents could spend the rest of their lives caring for an empty shell.  Man, aren't you guys being a little extremist about this?  Again, they were sure this baby would not live so I doubt life would have been even possible.  So look, when the docs come in and tell you your mother can't make it and you're just keeping them on life support, the choice is up to you to pull the plug, how is this different?  The docs have come in and said, this baby won't live.  How is this any different?

You keep mentioning the baby not living, but then say the "the parents could spend the rest of their lives caring for an empty shell."  That's a quality of life issue, which goes right back to the issue of disabled babies.  I think any mother and father who has a baby with a fatal disease/condition that will significantly shorten the baby's life will go through an enormous amount of trauma, whether the baby is killed in the womb and aborted or whether the baby is delivered normally and allowed to die.  What I have a problem with is making a decision to kill a baby in the womb based on a severe disability.  That is a dangerous path.   

Now, if you ask me what I would do if I were in that situation, I honestly don't know.      

[Hugo Chavez]

You keep mentioning the baby not living, but then say the "the parents could spend the rest of their lives caring for an empty shell."  That's a quality of life issue, which goes right back to the issue of disabled babies.  I think any mother and father who has a baby with a fatal disease/condition that will significantly shorten the baby's life will go through an enormous amount of trauma, whether the baby is killed in the womb and aborted or whether the baby is delivered normally and allowed to die.  What I have a problem with is making a decision to kill a baby in the womb based on a severe disability.  That is a dangerous path.   

Now, if you ask me what I would do if I were in that situation, I honestly don't know.      

Oh Brother... please re-read what I said and see if you had any comprehension problems You're doing a fine job of showing me you don't actually read what I say past the first sentense, from my quoted statement, highlight on "Again, they were sure this baby would not live so I doubt life would have been even possible."  The part where I said, "Perhaps you would choose" is rhetorical and really that should be obvious so enough with the game here, I way not going to be goated by you on this subject for your pleasure...  If that's what you're doing, it's kind of sick you would try considering the subject. Hello

[Dos Equis]

Oh Brother... please re-read what I said and see if you had any comprehension problems You're doing a fine job of showing me you don't actually read what I say past the first sentense, from my quoted statement, highlight on "Again, they were sure this baby would not live so I doubt life would have been even possible."  The part where I said, "Perhaps you would choose" is rhetorical and really that should be obvious so enough with the game here, I way not going to be goated by you on this subject for your pleasure...  If that's what you're doing, it's kind of sick you would try considering the subject. Hello

Which one of us is having a comprehension problem?  Here is what makes no sense Berserker: 

"Again, they were sure this baby would not live so I doubt life would have been even possible." 

If the baby is not stillborn, the baby is alive.  You're talking about a baby born alive that dies shortly after birth.  So life is possible, but for a short period of time.