Author Topic: Is America a democracy or a hidden dictatorship? (Read 18158 times)

240 is Back · « **Reply #100 on:** May 02, 2007, 08:18:55 PM »

damn, I just got schooled!

vikingpower · « **Reply #101 on:** May 02, 2007, 08:20:07 PM »

Quote from: gcb on May 02, 2007, 08:00:17 PM

Relativity is very easy. If you are traveling near the speed of light and observe light coming at you you see the light coming at you at the speed of light. Why? Simple as you go faster time slows down for you, it slows down in such a way that when you observe light it always seems to go at the speed of light (in a vacuum anyway). For most everyday things (such as a train traveling along tracks) the speed is so small compared to the speed of light that the relativistic considerations aren't worth considering - as the train gets faster and faster relativity comes into play (time dilation).

Interesting things to note: you can't actually go at the speed of light yourself since you need infinite energy to accelerate an object with any mass to the speed of light. Photons (light) have no mass (only energy) so they can travel at the speed of light. As you get closer and closer to the speed of light you need more and more energy to get you there.

thanks

but why?

vikingpower · « **Reply #102 on:** May 02, 2007, 08:26:30 PM »

Quote from: Slapper on May 02, 2007, 07:44:16 PM

But that's what I'm saying, these people you're referring to, the ones who make long term decisions as far as energy or foreign policy per se are concerned are well known: US Department of Energy and Council of Foreign Relations. Education and other matters are taken care of at the state level and hence play little role, if any, in the federal decision-making process.

I say this because it seems as though there is an intent, by some, to obfuscate or difuse a process that is well known, by institutions that are well known. There is little secrecy in their directives. When the Department of Energy produces a report for the presidente it does so because its main information gatherers, the private energy companies, are "harassing" them to the point that they have to act on their requisites.

The President gets the report, finds out that we're running out of CHEAP oil and the order is given to all pertinent parties to got out and "get" oil, be it via bombs or straight up stealing.

This is an entirely corporate/profit-driven process. These people act not on the necesities of the country 50 years down the line but on their business needs at a particular point in time. They are not selected but rather appointed (hence out of reach for the American public) by the likes of Bush or Clinton and (they) come with the nice incredibly huge donations each candidate gets from the (really) big corporations.

What am I trying to say with all of this? That the real thugs are not the ones we do not see, but the ones we vote for.

"Quiet ops"? Are you kidding me? The CIA operations have created more hate towards Americans than any other group I know of. And the USSR would've never won any "war" because there was no "war". The USSR had its days numbered since Stalin killed 6 million souls and this "war" Reagan pulled from his underpants gave the subsequent Soviet Premieres carte blanche to do as they please for 40 years. The press had a field day making it seem as though we won the "war," when all the did was wear the Soviets out, forcing them into effective economic bankruptcy before we did (something the CIA had little to do with).

Well... We do know. I bet you noticed a difference when the price of gasoline shot up, when we decided to re-invade Iraq, when we built clandestine jails in Guantánamo or Tristán DaCunha or when a bunch of kamikazes put two planes in the WTC.

I retract, we do not see the action, but we sure as hell see the re-action.

Sveet.

excellent post but i do not agree 100% ... to be sure there are alot of people cashing in and humans are def short sighted and selfish (the profit you speak of), but to say the wars in iraq and afgan (+911) have nothing to do with planning for amreekas future is not entirely accurate

for more info read:
DPG
PNAC
Grand Chess Board

... this is not to say that these wars are necessarily in amreekas long term best interest, rather that it is a consideration

gcb · « **Reply #103 on:** May 02, 2007, 08:31:18 PM »

Quote from: vikingpower on May 02, 2007, 08:20:07 PM

thanks

but why?

That I don't know

gcb · « **Reply #104 on:** May 02, 2007, 08:32:14 PM »

just the laws of the universe - ask God

Slapper · « **Reply #105 on:** May 03, 2007, 07:16:26 PM »

Quote from: vikingpower on May 02, 2007, 08:26:30 PM

excellent post but i do not agree 100% ... to be sure there are alot of people cashing in and humans are def short sighted and selfish (the profit you speak of), but to say the wars in iraq and afgan (+911) have nothing to do with planning for amreekas future is not entirely accurate.

I beg to differ, I do believe all these wars have been planned out in advance (except this last invasion of Iraq of course); although mainly with the future of America's corporations in mind. Look at New Orleans: It took weeks for anyone to do anything about the people there, yet the offshore riggs were being worked on while the hurricane was still ravaging the Big Easy.

vikingpower · « **Reply #106 on:** May 04, 2007, 01:34:14 AM »

read those documents ... amreekas future is intimately tied with (the worlds largest) corporatons future ... the grand chessboard (which predicted these wars in this region) also predicts the eventual transition into a one world government effectively controlled by sed corporations

iraq is going exactly as planned and it has been planned since the 92 DPG ... minimal us casualties + sustained chaos + permenant bases to make sure they can stay a while and prepare for iran (which is now flanked thanks to afghan as well)

now you may think of working on the riggs while a bunch of useless blacks and (some) whites were looting is greedy mismanagement(and i wouldnt necessarily argue with the greed angle), but those actions were utilitarian ... would you rather the price of gas tripled and your economy grinded towards a halt?

24KT · « **Reply #107 on:** May 04, 2007, 02:08:07 AM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on April 25, 2007, 10:23:11 PM

I believe that the average citizen CANNOT begin to understand the longterm resource and logistical/positional issues facing our country. I have an MBA and an undergrad in history, and I can barely understand scratching the surface of the issues- economics and history. Seriously, it boggles the mind. Not enough oil to run the world, everyone is borrowing beyond earning, everything is being financed, coups are continual to keep friends in office who give us advantages at their resources, oil oil oil...

I enjoy looking at it, but I'll never understand a fraction of it. I DO know that there is a group of agencies that ensures our leaders do whatever it takes to keep momentum on our side, and to ensure we're the only superpower- and it IS working. Without it, you'd have a kuscinish winning the presidency, ending the war, creating a vacuum that Iran/China fills, and our economy unravels.

however, to answer your question, there is no way the average american has a clue. On top of it, when you mention it, they reply with a 4th grade insult, usually calling you crazy or rolling their eyes. You see it here from grown men in decent fields - they believe the bucks stops at the white house and every 4 years, longterm US goals and interests reset. That's naive, and they are dumb.

240, ...why must you underestimate the intelligence of the average American?
As everyone knows, ...Americans are extremely intelligent

Just take a peek at these guys...

America's Finest Specimens of Intelligensia <--click me (if you dare) Mwahahah!

vikingpower · « **Reply #108 on:** May 04, 2007, 07:05:19 AM »

it amuses me to read you talking shit about other peoples intelligence

ToxicAvenger · « **Reply #109 on:** May 04, 2007, 07:29:15 AM »

Quote from: vikingpower on May 02, 2007, 08:20:07 PM

thanks

but why?

make of this what u will..

i read it..i see what it says..i cant digest it..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=time+dilation&spell=1

Decker · « **Reply #110 on:** May 04, 2007, 07:47:43 AM »

Quote from: vikingpower on May 04, 2007, 01:34:14 AM

... would you rather the price of gas tripled and your economy grinded towards a halt?

I agree with much of what you say. But the emergency reserves coupled with alternative sources for oil would make it extremely unlikely that the price of gas would triple or that the economy would grind to a halt.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/01/23/bush_wants_to_double_us_emergency_oil_stockpile/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

The current emergency reserve is worth about 97 days of oil imports.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #111 on:** May 04, 2007, 07:55:14 AM »

Yeah its all a big plan...the CIA are trhe bad guys and there was no cold war....I guess if u read drive by media history and cut and paste from CT sites this is what u get.

Decker · « **Reply #112 on:** May 04, 2007, 08:07:13 AM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on May 04, 2007, 07:55:14 AM

Yeah its all a big plan...the CIA are trhe bad guys and there was no cold war....I guess if u read drive by media history and cut and paste from CT sites this is what u get.

This is not drive by media: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/index.html

Here's one case: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/latin_america/honduras/hidden_truths/hidden.htm

"A June 1995 expose in The Baltimore Sun revealed the extensive CIA role in the creation and training of Battalion 3-16 -- the Honduran mi litary unit primarily responsible for many of the human rights atrocities in the 1980s -- as well as documents on U.S. knowledge of abuses."

There are dozens and dozens more.

ToxicAvenger · « **Reply #113 on:** May 04, 2007, 08:08:15 AM »

Osama is ex CIA trained...gasp!

how the fuck do yall think we got rid of the ruskies? $:-\$

vikingpower · « **Reply #114 on:** May 04, 2007, 08:09:00 AM »

Quote from: Decker on May 04, 2007, 07:47:43 AM

I agree with much of what you say. But the emergency reserves coupled with alternative sources for oil would make it extremely unlikely that the price of gas would triple or that the economy would grind to a halt.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/01/23/bush_wants_to_double_us_emergency_oil_stockpile/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

The current emergency reserve is worth about 97 days of oil imports.

trippled/grinded to a hault was a dramatic exaggeration on my part (though double to tripple is the prediction for the result of a war with iran)... but you know as well as i do how sensitive oil trading is to events like this so you realize why they had to focus on the rigs ... imagien teh shockwaves that would happen if those rigs had been shut down for a significant period of time

vikingpower · « **Reply #115 on:** May 04, 2007, 08:10:58 AM »

Quote from: Decker on May 04, 2007, 08:07:13 AM

This is not drive by media: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/index.html

Here's one case: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/latin_america/honduras/hidden_truths/hidden.htm

"A June 1995 expose in The Baltimore Sun revealed the extensive CIA role in the creation and training of Battalion 3-16 -- the Honduran mi litary unit primarily responsible for many of the human rights atrocities in the 1980s -- as well as documents on U.S. knowledge of abuses."

There are dozens and dozens more.

laos
cambodia
chile
nicaragua
congo
philippines
iran
bay of pigs
.

and thats just off the top of my head! when you cant overtly topple a government what do you do? ... black opps

Decker · « **Reply #116 on:** May 04, 2007, 08:46:37 AM »

Quote from: vikingpower on May 04, 2007, 08:10:58 AM

laos
cambodia
chile
nicaragua
congo
philippines
iran
bay of pigs
.

and thats just off the top of my head! when you cant overtly topple a government what do you do? ... black opps

That's a good start. Remember the assassination and torture manuals released when the School for the Americas was exposed?

http://www.law2.byu.edu/JPLNew/Vol%2020.1/1Quigley.pdf

vikingpower · « **Reply #117 on:** May 04, 2007, 09:21:33 AM »

ill have to read that

if you havent seen this you will enjoy it, a great british documentary on the history of CIA black opps

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-2562011283313707032

and this one outlines the connections between the CIA/drugs/and wall street (amongst other things)

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145

headhuntersix · « **Reply #118 on:** May 04, 2007, 09:35:51 AM »

So what...who cares...are u suffering because of any of this. i could care less. The School of the America's trained folks who kept the communists out of our back yard in Central and South America. This argument is onlyu valid if u give a flying crap about any of these people. as long as the US is ok and democracy and capitalism keeps clicking along I don't really care. I don't see any of us in this country headed to a concentration camp any time soon.

vikingpower · « **Reply #119 on:** May 04, 2007, 09:47:14 AM »

i dont give a crap about these people, and i dont give a crap about the victims of 911, or when your soldiers get blown up by IED's (in fact i think its a good thing that you get a taste of your own medicine)

what i do care about is truth because it is not healthy to believe in lies, and thats what most of the sheep you call countrymen do

headhuntersix · « **Reply #120 on:** May 04, 2007, 10:37:40 AM »

Viking on behalf of the entire US military die in a fire fuckmunch. Enjoy living in your socialist utopia provided by the blood sweat and tears of the United States Military.

vikingpower · « **Reply #121 on:** May 04, 2007, 10:46:55 AM »

im not going to die, i live in my parents basement

you dipshit are

headhuntersix · « **Reply #122 on:** May 04, 2007, 11:03:05 AM »

MY point exactly.....

The Enigma · « **Reply #123 on:** May 04, 2007, 11:27:45 AM »

Quote from: ProteinFarts! on April 23, 2007, 03:18:36 PM

bush didn't win FL but got into office thru cheating..same happens in pakistan

he went to war..against/regardless of congress

he's broken geniva convention laws

didn't sign the kyoto treaty

thinks he's doing gods work (so do the taliban)

is convinced he is absolutely right (so are the taliban)

bombs other places according to his beliefs regardless of international law (so do the taliban)

soo...

is this a democracy?

Put the blame squarely where it belongs........GEORGE W. BUSH.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #124 on:** May 04, 2007, 11:43:44 AM »

This shitbird just said he's glad American soldiers are getting killed by IED's and all u have to say is Blame Bush. I don't make policy and neither did u..u worked on these kids that he's thrilled are ripped apart.